MikeT

Like to get a little more speed from the ski. Curious if some were going to a longer ski. Going to take a degree off the wing and see what happens. For me I notice the wing in the follow through of the turn. Right now it seems restrictive there. Agree on some of the above points, KC Wolfeie,MC.

First year skiing 32 mph and first seemingly obvious question are most skiers using their same M6 ski or not and if so what are you doing to get more speed from your ski. Wing angle? Set up?

@Cnewbert that sounds great. Thank you for the offer. For the 3 weeks I'm there I'll be skiing at a couple ski schools and hope to connect up with a couple guys at Lake Miona. If we purchase the plan is to return next March, if ok I'd be interested in skiing with you out on Lake Weir sometime.

I tore my achilles in 2012 from not ejecting out of the Leverage with an OTF fall. Looked at all the choices. I prefer rubber with RTP. Chose the T-Factor. Has lasted well, maybe 2 years and it was the rubber tearing. Cords have held up. Feature I like is the bungee laces cords. You can snug it up and still get out. I snug it say medium pressure. Tighten crazy hard you may not get out. Highly recommend.

@VONMAN @Cnewbert thank you for the offers. I checked your you tube you have great technique. Ernie is that course skiing on Lake Weir, if so I would be interested in checking it out. Kinda looking for course skiing. My first week there I'm planning on skiing at Lapoints with the tournament on the weekend, following week at Jodie Fischer's tournament and maybe check out Travers if time.

Going to be spending 3 weeks at the Villages, Florida in November and was wondering if anyone knows if the club is active? I see some online presence but no website. A slalom course is advertised and they appear to have a barefoot Mastercraft. Will likely ski at one or two of the local ski schools, but I'm looking to buy a home there and it would be nice to have a local ski site

, Real glad to hear this conversation taking place. I run the New England Slalom Championship in Wolfeboro, NH, since 1988 and I have a background in competitive golf from back in high school. I brought the golf handicap format into our tournament years ago. I do 2 divisions which one is sort of an open AB division with a group of skiers that run into 35 off or higher and in golf terms, a gross score division or actual score. The rest of the skiers ski in the net division or handicap adjusted division. No more being the only one in your division. Like golf, handicapping makes it fun to ski against a large field, a chance for an actual prize or gift, no trophies for adults. I worked with Dave Allen to begin instituting a handicap system into WSTIMS. My partner Than B. constructed a spread sheet to pre-figure the handicap and make the adjustments and tally the scores during the tournament. We have our own parameters and formula to determine a fair baseline to figure the handicaps and it's proven to work very well with many years of data. I think all local C's should move to ABD's and make those tournaments more fun. I have heard and read about many interesting formats. It would be nice if everyone could put their heads together. Maybe a task force. We could potentially think about Handicap divisions at Nationals like Nastar which is wildly successful.

thanks for the great advice, all good

Mr Horton, I entered but don't know the area. Is there a tournament page with info about close local hotels? Order of events, practice, skier list etc thanks

Thanks Than and Mark for the kind words, but it's always been a club effort as Mark and I have been skiing here for some 40 years and Than half that time. It's a great public lake ski site. If you've driven down Route 90 or the Mass pike heading to Boston you've likely driven through our lake

I know it's strange but I live on the lake with the tunnel in the above picture. I can't get newer than a 2009. I want a change in boat look and color and it's to expensive to change the color and upholstery or not worth it if you can buy a new used boat for about the same as I can sell mine . I will have to keep this boat for the foreseeable future. So I thought I'd post this request for someone who is looking to sell their blue 08-09. I'm appealing to a small group of skiers

I live on a Massachusetts lake with a small triangular shaped tunnel that leads to the ski lake from my home and that cannot accommodate the width of the new Nautique nor the 200 so until they rebuild the tunnel I am stuck with a 196. My ideal boat is the above years 196 with a medium to light blue hull pattern. I"d like one with the entire hull blue and I've seen them even with the deck blue. I presently am selling my red 2008 to purchase a blue one that's in as mint condition as possible with a heater and ZO

If the talk on the dock is about retirement and when to take your social security

TRUE Story at Nationals. If your looking for your handle after you just got done skiing and I tell you it's around your neck, you might be in men 6

Horton do you have any openings?

I did allot of experimenting this summer with the settings of my XT. I won't get into what I discovered in the warm water but for sure this fall, somewhere around first week of October in the Boston area, suddenly the ski was not settling into the turn and slowing down as before. During the summer I discovered an eighth inch binding forward movement helped my skiing. With that and going with the philosophy that the viscosity of water is higher in colder temperatures and the water is denser and that the water is actually slower. Slower and making you feel like your skiing faster because it's harder to get wide and early. So my thought was to go from 9 degrees to 8.5 degrees with the wing to get more speed and moving the binding another eight inch forward to 29 1/4 inches to get the tip in the water a little more. It worked great. The ski felt the same up into the end of October until the second to the last ski the first week in November. The last ski was on 11/3. The water was getting even harder by then and it was much more difficult. All in all a good fall of skiing. As I said above I did allot of minor tweaking with the adjustments this summer and learned more about chasing performance with the ski. My plan is to take the fall settings into next spring. Start with that. 8 degree wing from 9. Binding at 29 1/4" vs 29". My goal is a faster ski that turns as well. This summer at most sites other than my own the ski would just stall into the turn with the binding at 29 1/8" and stock settings including 9 degrees. I had a home setting and a setting for other sites. It really worked that way. I took my home settings to both Regionals and Nationals and set up two practice sets. In each of the first practice sets the ski stalled and grabbed badly into the turn. This with stock fin, 9 degrees and only the binding forward and eighth to 29 1/8". Second set I moved the binding back to 29" and it was fine. My water at home, Boston area, must be a little quicker than most sites. My settings worked good however at two NH sites during the year. I'm typically a mid 38 skier and did run 38 this fall for the first time in awhile.

I tore my ATR in 2012. @Zman and I were conversing on our progress back then. Accident occurred using the D3 Leverage binding. I didn't release from the front and had a RTP. Considered all bindings except the hardshells. Settled with the D3 T-Factor. The key feature with that binding is the feel is pretty much the same as the Leverage binding, but the laces are elastic laces so that you can achieve the fit you want yet it has the ability to stretch open. Since 2012 I've had one fall very similar to the injury fall, OTF and I came out. It was good test in my mind. Nothing is perfect but I feel like the T-Factor gives me a better chance to release. Good luck man

I think we should preserve the Nationals as it is. No one hardly is going to go to Regionals and Two Nationals expect maybe @Lpskier. You the man John. But seriously now I'll echo @unksski to save space and I wrote in another thread what @jcamp wrote about the days we had 1000 competitors in the Nationals. Demographics and baby boomers may have been one reason but I think what brought more skiers out to compete was watching the pro tour on ESPN. What a surge in participation. I was Men 2 in the 80's and it was great skiing in large groups in each division even in local tournaments. That surge in membership has survived even today. Men 5 Slalom, that same group of skiers still the biggest. I always wonder if an investment in Pro Skiing would do for the sport today like it did back then. The Big Dawg is a better packaged product than the pro tour. How hard would it be to at least link all the tournaments into a series and championship. It's on the vendors of the sport to make that investment if they want more customers. It doesn't help when a ski boat cost $70K either. So whether it's the demographics or the Pro Tour or to much travel it's so hard to say what would grow the Nationals. I just don't agree with the 2 nationals idea. I would add 5 more regions to cut down the regional travel first. I'd rather dilute the regionals if anything and maintain the quality and prestige of competing in one Nationals. It's not for everyone. Multi round tournaments, fun and friends is available all summer long at local and regional level. I wouldn't be motivated to go to Nationals any more because I could ski two rounds or three. It's the one time of year that you get to see how you stack up against the best skiers in the country. PS I proposed the following idea, which is the way that I run the NE Slalom with @Than, in another thread and that is to mirror the golf and ski model of using handicaps to equalize the skiers. Anyone can win and you ski in big divisions in local tournaments. Men women and kids in the same group. Also consider performance based divisions. Integrate handicap division within the Nationals itself. Could this increase participation by merely adding a handicap division. Buick sponsors a national Golf Handicap Amateur tournament. Golf utilizes both in local tournaments. NASTAR is total handicap. Again anyone can win. Consider both. Someone should take the time to see how well those sports draw. I'd be willing to bet their participation is not much better on a percentage basis than ours. Keep 1 Nationals!

@lpskier Yeah Than and I usually go to the end of October or first week of November. It stays decent enough down here Mass still for some good skiing. Then we're done and then I pivot to ski racing

PROBLEM: To much travel and expense over a 2-3 week period to attend regionals and Nationals. How to motivate people to want to attend one or both. 1. Start promoting and recognizing the Regionals as a major tournament. Get people interested in going to the their regionals. It's the first step up from the local tournament scene. It's easier and less costly in many cases to go to and get people interested in the idea of traveling and experiencing a major tournament like the regionals. I understand the travel that other regions have that we in the east do not have. That needs to be addressed. The competition at all the regionals is top notch. It's a big deal to win a Regional Championship as well as finishing in the top five. Make people aspire to go. 2. Feature the Regionals and the tournament winners on the USA website as well as the regional websites. Bring more attention and prestige to it. 3. Send out invitations to the regional qualifiers. I thought it was neat to receive an invitation to Nationals last year. Think how upcoming skiers will feel to receive that in the email. I got an invitation last year to attend NASTAR nationals for ski racing. It was cool. I didn't go but just the same I achieved a level in the rankings and that feels like I've accomplished something 4. @disland has an interesting idea about spreading out the regionals to 3 sites run on the same day. The obvious drawback to skiing at 3 different sites on the same day is people skiing in different conditions and the advantages and disadvantages. But what would be better, that, or do as some people have suggested to increase the amount of regions we have to a higher number and therefore decrease the geography of the region. What if we did 7-10 regions? Could that help solve the attendance problem? Not a bad idea 5. Ok USA waterski has not innovated the tournament format since I began skiing. Nothing against USA waterski they do a great job but it's time for change. One just needs to look to different tournament organizers out there coming up with various formats on their own. Below the surface there many many sites using many different creative scoring formats. I've heard of a few and I can imagine there are others. Than Bogan, Randy Youngsma and myself Mike Tilton run the NE Slalom Championship and with me as a golfer saw the potential to utilize the golf handicap system at our tournament. Why, because it is just plain ridiculous to have skiers come to a "competition" and be the only skier in that division. Ok so maybe there is 2, 3, 4 but still what fun is that. We've all learned to resign ourselves to the idea that all that matters is our personal score for a rating, because some have no competitors there. 6. The NE Slalom Championship in New Hampshire has two divisions. Open which are skiers of all divisions and ages who run into 35 off or better skiing against each other straight up. Boys 3 to Men 7 all together. Women and girls as well if they qualify. About 10 skiers. Then 20 skiers men, women boys and girls using their handicap adjusted score where everyone starts on a level playing field. USGA Golf tournaments have been using this for years. NASTAR ski racing does the same. 7. Bring everyone together with the handicap system. I worked with Dave Allen among others to get the system incorporated into the ranking system. Allot of people don't even know it's there. There is a framework already created. It needs refining but just the same. 8. You want to help create more interest and reasons to attend your Regionals and Nationals. Add to the existing "gross score format" a new layer or group "handicap adjusted scoring group" into the existing tournament. The top skiers ski with their "gross" score or actual score as always and then you add handicap competition levels. In golf they call different Flights. Top Flight, First Flight, etc. Call it whatever you want. The 10-20 handicap group is another way to express it. 9. Skiing should be more ability based and handicap achieves that. This will increase the sizes of the division. Make winning and competing mean something. The framework is there.

PROBLEM: Complaints of to much travel and expense over a 2-3 week period to attend regionals and Nationals. How to motivate people to want to attend both. 1. @horton @"Pat M" Start promoting and recognizing regionals as a major tournament. Get people interested in going to the their regionals. It's the first step up from the local tournament scene. It's easier and less costly in many cases to go to and get people interested in the idea of traveling and experiencing a regional tournament over a National tournament. I understand the travel that other regions have that we here in the east do not have. The competition at all the regionals is top notch. It's a big deal to win a Regional Championship as well as finishing in the top five. Make people aspire to go. I don't agree with the "regional buy out" idea. That will destroy the regionals. In some ways I think the regionals are more important to more people to Nationals, with emphasis on "more people" 2. Feature the Regionals and the tournament winners on the USA website much more, as well as the regional websites. Bring more attention and prestige to it. 3. Send out invitations to the regional qualifiers. I thought it was neat to receive an invitation to Nationals last year. Think how upcoming skiers will feel to receive that in the email. I got an invitation last year to attend NASTAR nationals for ski racing. It was cool. I didn't go but just the same I achieved a level in the rankings and that feels like I've accomplished something 4. @disland has an interesting idea. The obvious drawback to skiing at 3 different sites on the same day is people skiing in different conditions and the advantages and disadvantages. But what would be better, that, or do as some people have suggested to increase the amount of regions we have to a higher number and therefore decrease the geography of the region. What if we did 7-10 regions? Could that help solve the attendance problem? Not a bad idea. We'd all probably dislike that idea but we need to get real with that problem. 5. Ok USA waterski has not innovated the tournament format since I began skiing. It's been the tournament organizers doing it on their own. Below the surface there many many sites using many different creative scoring formats. I've heard of a few and I can imagine there are others. Than Bogan, Randy Youngsma and myself Mike Tilton run the NE Slalom Championship and with me as a golfer saw the potential to utilize the golf handicap system in our tournaments. Why, because it is just plain ridiculous to have skiers come to a "competition" and be the only skier in that division. Ok so maybe there is 2, 3, 4 but still what fun is that. We've all learned to resign ourselves to the idea that all that matters is our personal score for a rating, because some skiers have no competitors there to ski against. 6. The NE Slalom Championship in New Hampshire has two divisions. Open which are skiers of all divisions and ages who run into 35 off or better skiing against each other. Boys 3 to Men 7 all together. About 10 skiers. Then 20 skiers men, women boys and girls using their handicap adjusted score where everyone starts on a level playing field. USGA Golf tournaments have been using this for years. NASTAR ski racing does the same. 7. Bring everyone together with the handicap system. I worked with Dave Allen among others to get the system incorporated into the ranking system. Allot of people don't know it's there. There is a framework already created. It needs refining but just the same. 8. You want to help create more interest and reasons to attend your Regionals and Nationals. Add to the existing "gross score format" a new layer or group into the existing tournament. The top skiers ski with their "gross" score or actual score as always and then you add handicap competition levels. In golf they call different Flights. Top Flight, First Flight, etc. Call it whatever you want. The 10-20 handicap group is another way to express it. 9. Skiing should be more ability based. This will increase the sizes of the division. Make winning and competing mean something. The framework is there. 10. Look what other sports do and pick out their good ideas.

I vehemently disagree with allowing level 8 and 9 skiers to pay their way out of regionals. We have local tournaments. Make them fun and as easy to get into as possible as well as making them tournaments where high level skiers can count on a getting a quality certified ski ride. The Regionals and Nationals are the two "major" tournaments for the USA Waterski Amateurs. I have for one have always looked at these tournaments to measure myself against the best regional and nationals skiers. You would ruin the regionals and degrade it if that rule was ever allowed. Some level 8 and 9 skiers would not go which would lead to other 8 and 9 skiers to not go because it would be, why bother going unless it was in close proximity. It would turn into a large local tournament. Then what do you have. My position is preserve that requirement to go to regionals. The Nationals is a National Championship. Not everyone qualified can go but there is always a large nucleus of good skiers there and a large group of aspiring skiers who feel honored to ski in the tournament. They come for the experience. If the Nationals is not your thing there is nothing that will get you to go. Why are the numbers down at Nationals, (900-1000 from the 80's) you just need to look back to the 80's when Pro Waterskiing was on ESPN for those years when the waterski population exploded. Invest in the Pro Tour. The Big Dawg is the best thing going. I came up in Men 2 and 3 during that era. Men 3 slalom had upwards of 180 skiers at Nationals. So considering the overall numbers of tournament skiers presently I'm guessing the Nationals numbers are in proportion

@skijay thanks and will do. @ms foot/binding spacing is close

I'm on a Goode 66" NanoXT. I'm a mid 38 skier. Based on my stance the ski seems to be riding with a higher tip than what it should be. The water does not break just in front of my foot, but behind my toes when I'm just riding forward on the ski, but more important it doesn't feel like it's coming down enough in the turn to engage. It doesn't feel like it is settling in the water at the end of the preturn. I feel like it could turn better. I'm looking for ideas. My settings are stock. DFT 6.98-7.05 FL tips 6.845 FD 2.498. I've tried 9-9.5 on the wing. I've tried 29" and 29.375" with the binding. I've tried a little deeper fin and did seem to make a little difference. Assuming that the way I stand on the ski causes this problem, I'm wondering how far forward I can try moving the binding forward and or how deep can I run the FL or FD. All ideas welcome, thx.

I ski on a public lake in a Massachusetts state park along with Chef23 and Than. It's 20 miles west of Boston. If you drive on the Mass pike you drive right through our lake. The ski club was established back in the early 70's and we've always had a great relationship with state park staff along with the fact that they view this lake as a recreational water sports lake with many other water sports like crew and sailing competitions, canoe and kayak, bass tournaments, etc. We have 2 courses with one in well protected cove where the NE Slalom Championship was staged for 10 years. The lake actually has 3 separated and connected lakes with designated separate uses, so it works out well.