buski

Any pass, regardless of difficulty, where an early screw up leads to fighting from behind the whole time only to remarkably still get all 6 and through the gates with a huge smile - most fun Any pass, mostly of easier difficulty, where an early screw up leads to a 1 or 2 and straight tow down the rest of course or swim in the water waiting for the boat to come back - least fun

The response lxi ran from something like 02?-06. It was redone from 07-11 The first TXI was like 12-17? And now current gen Txi If you dig on the internet for wake feedback, you'll typically find people saying the 07-11 generation was the worst of the bunch. Maybe that's true, but I have an 08 Response LXi and I learned at 15/28, have had a lot of other skiers learn at 28mph or lower, and everyone I ski with prefers mine to other boats in our rotation with a better wake reputation. I've skied both generations of TXi but was past 28mph by the time I did that. Both might be a little bit nicer but not enough that it'd have hampered any improvement on mine. I also skied an older Sunsetter (32/34 mph anyway) and it was perfectly fine, and the Sunsetter LXi was supposed to be better. All are a nice size boat, walk through open bow, option of a tower or extended pylon if you want to tow while using the back seat, option of the wedge if any of the kids ever need it. I don't really think you could go wrong with any of them. If I were hunting I'd keep options open for them all depending on location/price/looks/options/condition/etc and just give it a ski before buying.

@Bruce_Butterfield aside from keeping them on two skis longer, what's your rough ballpark for size/ability to move from a vortex slalom to a more traditional 63-65 ski? (tra,lyric,d3,etc)

We ski on a river. We're all very far from pros of course but it's unanimously easier to ski up river. If it's not exactly like a head/tail it's pretty close to the same feeling. We have the wind blowing in the same direction as downstream pretty often and then it becomes pretty difficult to run anything in that direction.

Look at camaro long sleeve shorty

@jhuhges did you get both a vapor and senate pro? how do they feel different at the 22/28 range? are you starting at 32mph first or strictly 34 now?

@34mph I'm also on the same 67 lith senate ('18). I don't have my exact numbers in front of me but was aiming for as close to stock as I could get (aside from dft adjustment for the cg fin). Which puts it somewhere around 6.975/2.460/.710 (stock is .74 and they said try whatever you were using -0.03). Offside feels pretty good, through the wakes feels great, on side felt maybe a bit too slippy. I was recommended to try more depth first.

The first thing I noticed was the on side being a little 'looser' or maybe slides around too easily for me Off side feels pretty good and can feel the difference. I've gotten a little more used to the on side but sounds like maybe I should try a little bigger fin? What adjustment to help get there? I'm on a lithium senate with the fin set to about the stock numbers .

Does anyone have a maps link for quickset or some of the other smaller ones? I've searched before but couldn't find an address or know how to find it just scanning around Canton.

Bit of an aside but how would you compare the two? I guess you prefer the vapor if the senate is the backup but I have a 17 lithium senate I really like but of course wonder about a vapor. Can run 28/34 but still very inconsistent

I always wanted to show up on all of the nearby smaller but great skiing sized electric-only lakes with an electric ski boat. Would probably be at least an hour before they add HP restrictions too.

Have an 08 lxi and for how we use it I can't think of a better option (earlier generation LXi or SSXi will be great too). Maybe hard to find that generation at 25k but you do see them near/under 30 sometimes. If we had to be on the water from launch to finish then maybe it would be small, but living on the water or us being in a place with docks to come in & out of, it's perfect. I have 2 kids (on the younger end still) but have had them & friends and other people out on it. If you really need, toss on a tower or extended pylon to allow use of the back seat for kid stuff. Wedge doesn't make it a wakeboard boat but does help it be a little more versatile. With the right conditions you can surf them if you want to go through the effort with ballast. My 08 skis great and is preferred by a bunch of slower 15off skiers to other boats we ski on that have "better" reputations. I'm usually at 22-28 off. I think 08 was the first year you could get ZO (requires new ECM) for some reason but don't remember. I don't really compete so part of me would have been just as happy with PP. A friend of mine does the same thing with a 197, it's a little smaller but it works. Really did not like skiing behind another friend's 206. Come to think of it I know another guy with I think 3 teenage kids and they make do just fine on a 197 with their friends too.

It's a little tricky and you might want to slow the boat speed a bit or increase the line length until you get used to the timing of swapping hands holding the baby so you can still release and maintain handle control.

As another decent (can run 34/28 off on a good day) skier who's never been to and probably never will go to a tournament, I get where the suggestions are coming from at least. I don't know why I'd drive 2+ hours to the nearest site(s), probably whiff my gates or first pass to then just hang out and drive back vs. a full day skiing with my kids, friends, their families, etc. It might be different if I lived in FL or somewhere with a lot more access. @skibug 1 - any speed you want - has been somewhat addressed with zero based scoring (zbs). Funny name but it lets you shorten the rope at whatever speed you want and the scores are adjusted. 2 - will never happen but that doesn't seem like a big barrier for me really. 3 - I would be lying if I said gates weren't big in my mind as a reason I barely want to bother. I only get on the water maybe twice a week if I'm lucky and would rather just ski than practicing gates. I hit them sometimes, miss them more often than not, and don't feel the need to compete/for validation enough to bother about it. I really liked Gordon's idea a while back on the entry gates (but that mostly amounts to just not having to count them). Exit are fine as is to me. 4 - Most tournaments with a grassroots entry have a minimum pass # but it's usually 4. Again, areas with a ton of access/tournaments are probably different, but for us decent skiers in areas where the nearest tournament is hours away, I could drone on and on about all the reasons why I don't feel like making the effort, or how much of a mountain competing is for skiers not already at least somewhat in the know, but don't really have many suggestions as to what would change my mind. I mean I know some sort of standards are required, and access being tough is just the nature of the beast, but compare skiing in a tournament to the 'local' competition level of almost any sport. Take volleyball, if I go to a tournament it basically is a day of "playing with my buds" but we get to compete against other teams, maybe win a t-shirt, and get in a full day of playing for $40 or whatever. If I can get in a day of skiing with my buds at home and compete against each other/ourselves it's pretty hard to want to go drive 2+h to miss a few passes and drive home. Some online only leagues/ladders seem like a way to get people interested, "competing", and could use those somehow towards getting them out to a real tournament, but you guys would be so concerned about someone making scores up that it'd require so much overhead/daily course surveys/video/special judges/signed affidavits of witnesses/oaths signed in blood to verify the scores. Why bother. Or I don't know some standardized framework for a handicapped tournament that local clubs/groups can use on their own that could also feed some online aggregation of the tournaments just for fun. And maybe people just having fun and relaxing instead of about worrying if jonny from nevada's 35 off is as legit as yours. I dunno.

From a totally recreational skiing perspective, it's understandable to try to get one ski, and a 67 senate isn't a bad choice at all. It will be big for the women but at 28 and presumably pretty recreational skiing, will be fine and probably better than what you're on. It will be a little small for someone 6'3/200, but I'm 6'4/180 and ski a 67 at 32/34 and it's fine for me even if I ski at 28/30 for something, so he'd be fine. Ski wise, if you had to choose one, I think you made a good pick. The bigger problem will be bindings. Something like vectors are "ok" for a few different shoe sizes but likely tough for the women and larger men to get comfortably into the same one. On the rear if you all use a toe plate it might be possible to use the same one but might be tight/loose for some. The front binding is either going to be loose for the girls or too tight for the men, neither are good. Safety is a concern though and I personally don't like the vectors or bungee bindings at all. If you got a larger size rubber front binding from Wiley's, the men should fit and while it will be big for the women, might be tight enough to at least ski somewhat comfortably with. I've had small feet woman ski the same wiley's that a size 13 can fit into lots of times and they were fine. Granted, this is for recreational skiing. So if you were forced to pick one ski/binding set ($$ tight, whatever), a 67 senate, Wiley binding the biggest foot can get into, and a rear toe plate that everyone can deal with (some are somewhat adjustable) sound like a good pick and honestly will be fine for a vast majority of skiers. That said, it's more fun to have your own personal ski setup, the kind of ski you want, a graphic that makes you happy, and bindings that fit correctly, and is also a better way to improve your skiing if that's a focus besides just getting out and enjoying a pull behind the boat. Like the others I'd push you into getting your own skis (or women can double up). Still, if you had to do one, I still think the setup above would be a lot better than what you're on now.

HC-1 hull cleaner, found it through the forum, developed by a skier if I remember, worked great.

Pick up a leftover 17 graphite senate and cross ski off the list. If running bungee bindings (vector,etc), I'd probably err on the side of making them too loose. I don't think double bindings would eliminate those falls as I've had friends have a 1 in/1 out fall on double similar bindings. If you don't like the loose feel then some other binding would probably be the way to go.

I've skied a graphite (16) and lithium (17). Granted there was a shape change but compared to the 16 graphite, the 17 lithium feels faster (in a good way), is easier to ski on, is more responsive but still more stable than other skis I've been on. After skiing on the graphite (demo) I decided to buy the 17 lithium. I'd have been happy if what I got skied the same as the 16 graphite, but am even happier on the 17 lithium.

I ski 15-22 at 32/34 and some cracks at 28. Have been nothing but impressed with the 17 lithium senate. Have had more consistency than ever and can't wait to get more time on it.

I realized after I got my first boat that I love slalom. Sold it and bought a RLXi. Go every free weekend that I'm able to on the water with friends. Dry suits in March/April, ski until Nov. Worked on the course like crazy until I could run it, worked up to max speed & shortened at least a little. Am hooked and don't see that ending anytime soon. Imagine there are a lot of people like me. If I can't find a reason to join I think it would be hard to hook people even further away from the fence. When I think about joining, what I think of is - Everybody here always complaining about something (rules, growth, no growth, class a,b,c,d,e,f,g,h,i,j,k,l,r,q, judging, no judging, awsa, uswas, some other acronyms, etc). Sounds like a headache. - Going to a tournament would mean traveling 1.5h+, probably missing my gate twice and driving home, compared to another fun day on the water with my kids & friends. - Competing for what? Age based even if I ski my best and actually hit my gates, am still just a 22off guy so I don't really care how it would look on the rankings. Ability based, maybe it would a little more fun? I've looked at INT and if there were tournaments in my area I would probably try those before awsa. - What else would I join for? Insurance? I don't even know why I would need it. Maybe if we had a club and club level insurance, or we ran tournaments and needed insurance for that, but I'm already otherwise insured on my own and don't know what I'd get out of paying for membership. If not joining for tournaments & competition though I don't understand what else it would even get me? If anything? Things that made me my ears perk up a little - Gordon's gate proposal. Don't need to rehash it but I don't really "train", just ski and probably miss 50% or more of my gates, but I don't really care. I guess if I wanted to compete I would spend more time on it but who wants to do that unless you're really into it? - New zbs rule. I try to get to max speed as often as I can but being able to shorten a little slower might make it a bit more fun if I were to make it to a tournament. I don't know if that would get me out there this year though. Things that sound like something I'd join for but probably hard to do in practice: - Regular coaching/clinic opportunities. I'd much sooner drive that 1.5h+ 2-3 times a season if it meant a day of coaching, meeting new people, etc. If being a member meant I knew that a couple times a season I would get access to reasonably nearby, reasonably priced clinics of 2-3 sets with a great coach, I'd probably do that. I bet there are even opportunities at some nearby sites already, but they're locally coordinated or just coordinated by private groups so we never even hear about them. A few years back when Wade did his little tour of clinics I happened to see in WSM that he was doing one not too far from me. I signed up, had a great day, but never saw anything like it again. - Even coached sets at a tournament instead of competing might make me go but I could see that being difficult to manage. Not a bad gateway to get people on-site to watch the tournament while waiting between their sets and eventually want to try it out, though. - Some program to 'guarantee' sets at other sites. I know if I'm traveling somewhere, I could ask around for a pull and have done it before, but always feel like I'm imposing. Usually it's people who don't need me around and were just out for their sets anyway, so even if I chip in/help out/etc just feel like I'm taking up their time. If there were some well publicized clubs where having my membership card meant I could easily just coordinate a few sets without feeling like I'm putting people out of their way, hunting down names and email addresses,etc , I might join for that.

This is old, but there's a forum post from them in 2013 that says over 400 samples/second.

For fun and breaking up the monotony of indoor cycling check out Zwift (www.zwift.com). There are smart trainers & dumb trainers. Smart ones can control the resistance so it seems like a real virtual ride (or use in erg mode for specific workouts). There are high end smart trainers where you take off your wheel (wahoo kickr, tacx neo), some where you hook up your tire (tacx vortex smart is what I have and a pretty good price-performance pick). Dumb trainers won't be controlled and you can either use simulated power with a cadence/speed meter or real power if you have a power meter ($$). You could use zwift with rollers too if you have a power meter. They recently released workout mode so you can either do a free ride on the island or one of the predefined workouts, or with the workout editor make up your own.

For fun and breaking up the monotony of indoor cycling check out Zwift (www.zwift.com). There are smart trainers & dumb trainers. Smart ones can control the resistance so it seems like a real virtual ride (or use in erg mode for specific workouts). There are high end smart trainers where you take off your wheel (wahoo kickr, tacx neo), some where you hook up your tire (tacx vortex smart is what I have and a pretty good price-performance pick). Dumb trainers won't be controlled and you can either use simulated power with a cadence/speed meter or real power if you have a power meter ($$). You could use zwift with rollers too if you have a power meter. They recently released workout mode so you can either do a free ride on the island or one of the predefined workouts, or with the workout editor make up your own.

Does anyone us a wedge on Malibus for tricks?

These are great. Thanks much for posting them and also to the creators. A lot of this is stuff seems like tribal knowledge to someone in a club with no trickers and I had found hard to find even with the internet. They did a great job capturing it and sharing to make it more accessible.