sunvalleylaw

Talking to TW about it, and will explore with some training this year as I get back into it. Will start on my Yellow ARC and get back on my ski, and then try the new skis. Thinking I will stay within the D3 line for sure after talking to Terry. I don’t want to go for one of the other wider bodies.

Also interested in this. Life long skier, nearly life long Kidder (Redline) through D3 era Denny Kidder owning skier, and was considering selling my ARC (yellow) for the NRGR2, as I love and am so used to that D3 ski feel, but also wondered about the Senate or Syndicate, given what friends use. Looking like they are very different feeling skis from the remarks. Hmm.

Hey, I’m back! Haven’t posted in a long while. Hopefully gonna ski more this year. Was looking at swapping out my yellow 67” ARC for this NRG R2. Partly as it is described as wider. I am older, don’t get a ton of course time, and figure it might be helpful. Might be worth a test ski anyway. I was up past middle a bit of the weight range for my 67” on the ARC, and I guess the same for the NRG R2. I have pretty much always been a Kidder through D3 guy and just love the feel, and would love to stay on a D3 rather than move to some other wider body ski. Thoughts?

Yes. And agree with all that @skibumm said and have had similar experience as a snow ski pro.

I skied behind one of those in the early 90's, down at Shasta, and loved it. First boat to make me fall in love with a Malibu wake.

This whole thing is a bummer. I hope good investigation and process takes place and all concerned get any assistance and justice that they need.

So, apparently, did the 90's. But we know that already from the Captain Marvel movie. https://patents.google.com/?q=water&q=skiing&q=training&q=device&oq=water+skiing+training+device Reading the goals, and descriptions of 90s skiing this one is trying to reproduce is pretty interesting. A lot has changed. https://patents.google.com/patent/US5496239A/en?q=water&q=skiing&q=training&q=device&oq=water+skiing+training+device Collecting some ideas here.

Scheduled again now.

@ShererSkier , that presumes more boat time than I have. Trying to find alternatives as boat time is limited for me.

@Than_Bogan , yep. Agreed. And when I can get on the water, I was going to start out this year after warming up with some whip drills. Haven't looked up Seth's vids on that again, but will. Hoping that step by step, some dryland drill work, leading to on water drill work, leading to practice in turns, etc. will produce some progress.

@skibug , makes sense. But I need to practice the position statically also before I can work maintaining stack and balance through transition. In snow skiing, we would call that finding static balance, and learning to maintain dynamic balance. But I need to work on my posture/position/stack before I can really move it. Gotta stand in balance before you can move in balance. And I will add for waterskiing, and with managing load/pull of the boat/line tension. We don't have to deal with that on the snow, and I need to revise what I do on the water. The static thing is just a tool, or step on a path, not a cure all.

Dragging this thread up again, as I am getting set to build myself a "perfect pull" substitute. I am looking for the dimensions of the device that used to be sold, made out of metal with long legs that went out on the dock at an angle, with a metal plate angled like a slalom ski on edge to stand against, and the handle going over a rubber "pulley" sort of thing down to be secured at the base. The handle line folded over the pulley pretty low. At one point, I had a line on a used one, but shipping made it prohibitive to obtain. So, will build my own out of wood, secured against posts supporting my carport, once I can figure out the correct edge angle, anchor point for the line, distance between edge of the "ski" and the actual handle, and height at which point the line will go out to the handle. I will try to figure out a way to mimic the rubber pulley to give it some give. EDIT: After reading through the rest of the thread, I am going to see if I can figure out a way to make the angle "across the wake" in relation to the pull of line adjustable so it is not 90 degrees across as was the case with the Perfect Pull. My goal in doing this is to make something where I can experiment with and find a taller, more leg extended lean (not pull) away from the boat, with my balance stacked better over my feet. I do not plan on spending hours on it statically, but just as an aid in finding some physical feedback in my feet and body so I can then take that out on the water and do some whip drills and other things to work on it out there. Getting a better posture without separation between hips and handle, and more efficient lean using that better posture, is my primary goal this year.. Though I will not achieve this goal fully on dry land, I think for a guy with limited water time, it at least can be a tool on the path. If anyone has a Perfect Pull and can give me some measurements, let me know. It is a starting point.

I am not a golfer, and don't understand golf handicaps. But I like ideas like that and/or @ELR 's variation to support "tournament on demand" sort of thing. Along with something that supports more social bragging rights "beer league" nights, which maybe could also fit into the handicap or scoring some way. I don't really care that much about my ranking as, I am just a schmo who wants to improve, and not worried about qualifying for nationals or anything. So if some "protections" need to happen to make the people that care much more about that happy, that seems fine. With regard to the "beer league" social tournaments, seems to me the biggest thing is access to water and courses where they could be held.

@scottyspin , nice! Mine had quite a few hours on it when I got it, but had been treated very well by an owner in the industry that cared about upkeep.

@scottyspin Perfect! I purchased a 98 Response LX a couple years ago for 11k and it has been great! And it looks an awful lot like yours. I was thinking a near turn of the century Response LX would come up and be right for the job. Congrats!

I am in the camp that says "goofy footed" is an old surf/skate term. And back then, you were goofy footed if you were right foot forward. I don't think the term applies well in skiing. I agree with @Horton 's history on why a lot of us from an era and area are LFF and right handed, and could kick a soccer penalty kick with their right foot. I am LFF, and right handed, and would kick with my right.

Having just watched @Horton 's vid just now, seems spot on. For me, the internal self coaching cues to accomplish the fundamental of being tall and "stacked" is stay tall, rear leg straight but not locked. Tall and supple. I guess mentally I have shot for being over that front foot, but obviously I have not achieved it. Early season, I plan on seeing if revising my mental cue to be just tall over both feet rather than trying to get over that forward foot helps. I totally agree with Horton from my experience in snow skiing that if a skier tries to think too much about being forward, (in snow skiing, hands forward) rather than just standing over the balls of the feet, the ass goes out the back every time. If they just stand up over so knees are over toes (with the natural flex built into alpine ski boots and contact with the front of the boot) and have the elbows ahead of the rib cage rather than reaching forward, it is a lot more natural and a lot less likely to end up with ass out. Gonna figure out this year how I can get my stance on the water. Obviously, I don't want my elbows out ahead of the vest when I have a handle in my hands. Points out the primary difference between snow and water. On water, you have to deal with the pull of the boat. So, for me, tall and supple, particularly in the rear leg is the starting point.

I have this issue, and also, allowing my hands/forearms to not be very close/in contact with my core after turn completion and across the wakes. Too much space! To me, it is another symptom of the same thing. In snow skiing, I absolutely am controlling my skis with the balls of my feet ( as @AdamCord describes), and the fronts of my boots with shin pressure and active, engaged ankles. Out on the water, I think I can feel some good equal pressure on my feet at times, and can feel tall at times, but in reality get squatty, and end up back on the rear foot a bit. Particularly in my pre-turn, and entering the turn on 2, 4, 6. (LFF guy here). I used to think about pushing my hips up by doing things like pinching up my butt cheeks, forcing the hips forward, or attempting to pinch my shoulder blades back. That tended to make too much lumbar curve for me, which as someone with a formerly blown L4/L5, I cannot do. Also, it misses the mark and goal I think. Now I am just attempting to stand up more at all times, and shift my hips forward over my feet rather than push them. (to me there is a difference). And learn to make sure any lean and leverage is away from the boat, rather than back in terms of fore and aft on the ski at all. So right now, (and I haven't even been on water yet, we still have snow in the yard), that is my approach, and my primary goal this year. Stay taller over the ski with hips over my front foot as best as possible, arms, elbows and handle with contact to the vest, legs, core. Definitely a work in progress for me.

@sunperch , seems a valid point. Hmm. Wondering if there is some other way to address the concern raised by Jeff without creating other problems.

Yeah, seems like a beer league thing would be more achievable than a NASTAR format. Any other ideas for creating more opportunities, or improving the opportunities we currently have? I am interested in the ideas @JeffSurdej mentioned about improving the Class C experience for the less advanced and/or "grass roots" skier, and thoughts on changes to the rankings system.

@Horton , wasn't looking to add a layer, was looking to add opportunities, and for ways to do that. Just trying to brainstorm.

Thinking further, as for the "NASTAR" idea, where you show up to the mountain, get access to the public ski site by paying for a ticket, and then gain access through filling out the paperwork and paying, to ski the course, we have a limiting factor in waterskiing that typically waterski sites are not open to the public to just show up and pay to ski for a day or a few runs. Particularly behind tournament quality drivers. In downhill, gravity is your towboat and driver. Gravity doesn't need to get paid or have insurance. So, wondering if this doesn't point out to me one of the fundamental problems. Wondering what ideas we could come up with to get around that and come up with a regular comp type tow experience for us lower level, beer league (or we can say city league, like it is called outside Portland and Seattle) skiers.

@JeffSurdej said in the thread regarding another organization, ". . . instead of starting a new organization, if there is a good idea out there for a new league lets start it under AWSA and do our best to avoid all the rules, politics, that comes with AWSA or maybe thats not not possible b/c we would still need awsa insurance which means safety, drivers etc? But it's worth a try first. Lets here some ideas for a new ski league, what would it have and not have, how would it work, run, where, etc." This sounds like a reasonable idea to consider. I personally would be interested, and would love to see what others thought and what ideas they might have. And it seems like Jeff is interested too. How about we share some? As for me, I would be interested in seeing more lower level comps with some sort of scoring, and possibly even something like alpine snow skiing has with "Wednesday "beer" league racing, and/or what alpine skiing has with NASTAR. @oldjeep ) knows something about that I think, and I have participated in both sorts of events. I just want to see more competition opportunities for the lesser skilled/advanced, and more ski opportunities in preparation, and would love to see investment of some kind toward that. We already have "grass roots" stuff, but I would like to see that expanded somehow. Not sure how. The fact is that for me, there is one event at the end of the season anywhere reasonably close. Now if I get over the WA, there are quite a few over the course of the summer. But very little intermountain. Would love to see that expanded. And also, some other sort of regular "comp" opportunity that might not even qualify to be grassroots, but would be a way to test one's self on a regular basis, NASTAR style, or Wed. Beer league style. What else?

No. Waste of money. Put the money into developing more tournament opportunities, especially for those lower level skiers.

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