skifreak

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@ScaredofCorbets That's actually a fantastic point most people wouldn't think of. Many US Citizens are NOT require to forfeit their original passport and technically remain citizens of both countries. They could easily run off and compete for another Nation given the desire to do so even if they're classified as US Citizens.

But permanent residents DO get full citizenship benefits with pretty much the singular exception of voting. Visa holders are a different story which might very well be all the other people you're thinking of. I feel like this whole issue revolves around people not understanding the differences in status (who generally needs to, right?). I can't help but notice that the only person who claims intimate knowledge of the process and requirements agrees that permanent residents should be granted eligibility.

@Dirt - I think if we actually sat down and assessed the status of people this *might* affect, we'd realize there's not even a can of worms to open at all. Pros and students are on entirely different immigration statuses and don't need to be included in an amendment to the rules. They would remain ineligible as stands. Potential issues that might arise: 1. Abuse from other skiers who simultaneously ski in multiple countries. Ok, but currently there's no check on whether or not you're a citizen so that could be happening anyway. 2. He (or any other skier) skis, gets rankings and someday decides to defect to Canada. As soon as a green card holder abandons the country, they forfeit their status and can never get it back. So yes, maybe you now have a former nationally ranked skier who has returned to their home country. However, they're the ones hurt from this since they can never come back and I'd bet that 99.99999% of green card holders would never do this after jumping through all the hoops and shelling out the amount of cash a residency status cost them in the first place. And it's only personal feelings here but if that skier was involved in the US ski community why should it matter they weren't from 'Murica. He's really VERY much less of a Canadian at this point than American (even though we like to give him crap). I also know nobody would complain about having an extra driver or tournament worker but we can't dare let him ski! I'm entirely open to hearing why people are against this (aside from the "I hate foreigners" stance) because I can't convince them to change the rules if I don't know how the other side thinks. :)

@Klindy - perfectly agreeable to that and it's all we're aiming for. As I stated earlier, I have a (very lengthy) email in to the board of directors. I'm hopeful that with a bit of discussion on immigration laws and what exactly the differences are in statuses, we can get the rules rectified.

@ntx Rules can and must be changed when they no longer meet the need they were meant for. If that wasn't the case, Rosa Parks would still be sitting in the back of a bus somewhere. Past scores don't matter and shouldn't be brought up. Not everybody can be a hardcore three eventer from the start and just because a score isn't seen on a website doesn't mean they aren't practicing or deserve to compete if they qualify. All we're arguing is that he should have the opportunity to ski if he qualifies. You're entirely entitled to your opinion on qualifications and should think about emailing AWSA if you feel so strongly. @Klindy - You've got a guaranteed room at SMRR. :)

@ShaneH - so a simple rule requiring a permanent residency status would circumvent most of these issues?

I guess that's where I disagree with you. Nationals should be about the active US ski community, not who has the papers.

If he's not competing internationally or not trying to represent multiple countries simultaneously, then absolutely. I have no problem with that. If he got his citizenship paperwork tomorrow would you still tell him he can't compete because he's not really American? No. So what makes tomorrow so different from today. Being American isn't about paperwork. Shouldn't how you live count for something? Feel free to enlighten me as to what makes a person worthy of competing at Nationals if it's not permanently living here, working here, paying taxes here, being eligible to join the military, skiing here full time, and only participating in tournaments here.

I think World's is an entirely different problem/category. This isn't an all or nothing issue and you're trying to lump kevin into a class of skiers in which he does not fit. If a skier lives here, works here and only wants to ski in the US (and be ineligible in other countries)- why is that not their option assuming permanent residency status? If you're an amateur and want to ski US nationals - waive the right to ski in other countries and ski where you live. If you're a pro or want to ski World's and aren't a citizen - don't compete in US nationals, this doesn't change how you're currently living and everybody is happy. Putting a time limit on this as @skier2788 suggested is a great idea (ie no international events in the past two years). Why is flexibility not an option and why are Americans so afraid of a little Canadian giving them competition.

@Wish - totally agree. But what checks are currently in place? It seems that if his status wasn't common knowledge he could have just signed up and skied without issue. It seems like we're already just relying on other skiers to police eligibility and speak up when something's wrong...

Maybe I'm just being whiny because it affects me personally but the issues with pros is ENTIRELY different. Kevin isn't skiing for money, sponsorship or competing in other countries. For all intents and purposes, he's a citizen without the paperwork. This isn't a pro event. He's not trying to ski somewhere he doesn't live. If you live and work here PERMANENTLY then you should be allowed to ski. Like I said, if it's the title you have an issue with - you're still not going to be happy if he wins as an official "citizen" but is Canadian born. I don't see a functional difference in his status now and having a paper that says he's a "citizen". As far as skiing in Canada. He's never skied tournaments there and doesn't even know any Canadian skiers. How much fun would you have showing up to a tournament where you don't know a single person? Tournaments are as much about hanging out with your buddies as they are skiing. It's not about getting a higher ranking, it's about actually being able to compete where you live, work and ski. I think it actually looks worse for him to fly back to Canada and ski once a year, taking a spot from somebody who actually practices and lives there than it does if he competes here. If you were on the other end of that arrangement I think you'd be pretty pissed. Imagine a pro lives in another country and the only time they ski here is for Regionals and Nationals (no practicing, no other tournaments) and he pushes you out of a top ranking you could have had. I'd have to imagine there would be a lot of "But he doesn't even live here!!!" arguments happening...

honestly, if you ski in Canada then why not. The major difference is he doesn't live in Canada. He lives here, works here, pays taxes here and its even allowed to join the military here. But he can't ski us nationals. So we're more than happy to let him die for us but not ski for us. Why aren't people allowed to waive their right to compete in other countries if the circumstances allow? I totally understand your point about Canadians winning Canadian Nationals and Americans winning US Nationals. However, he can't even apply to become a citizen for another three years (must have green card for 5) Even if he does, does that make it ok for a Canadian born to win just because he's now classified as a citizen? If that's what you're concerned about then only US born citizens should be eligible... @Shaneh - done and emailed the board members last night. :)

It's not like he just "happens" to be here. Hardly the case. He friggin only pays US taxes for crying out loud.

@lpskier - that's not really the point. In two weeks we move into a house who's backyard is literally the site for 2014 nationals and he can't even ski if he wants to.... I'm actually kind of upset over this. Why do the rules not include permanent residents who don't compete in other countries?! Kind of ridiculous that he lives here, works here, owns a house on a site here, only skis here but we'd have to go to separate nationals....(I AM A US citizen and while traveling for one nationals might not be a big deal, two is). I realize our situation is pretty unique but think he ought to be able to forfeit Canadian nationals for the US.