Jim

Thanks Shane, do you know what they changed?

Last year they tested the 200 with both the 5.7 and 6.0. Why only the 6.0 this year if both boat/motor combinations would have been good for 2011? Doesn't make sense to me.

40K is a heck of a lot better than the 50+ for one of the big three. Boat is unproven but the company is not. Fineline has been around for a while and according to the boarders they build innovative, quality stuff. I'm hoping they make it.

Had a friend who had his hip replaced when he was 24. At the time the docs told him it would probably last no more that 10 years and would have to be redone. Well, he's 35 now, still on the first hip iron, and is an avid free skier. No complaints, keeps himself in shape, probably not the norm but an illustration that anything can happen. Another friend who is 37 had his hip resurfaced last year. Ball is dislocated from the socket and the socket is ground smooth. Ball is put back in and away you go. Recovery around 8 weeks. He went from a guy who thought he was headed to a Rascal Scooter to a guy skiing 4 times a week. Best of luck to your father, tell him water skiers bend the curve when it comes to hip surgery!

Any updates? Anyone skied behind one yet?

Ed, from what I have heard Centurion is serious and confident and working hard on point c. All they hype in the world is just that but they are sure they have a winner. Centurion has been around for a long time and has the resources to make this work. PCM drivetrains are the best in the business and already proven. Tough economy to sell anything but given the price their competition, coming in at a somewhat reasonable price point may work to there advantage.

Actually Ed, $48K for a loaded boat WITH the 409 and a tandem trailer is a pretty good price. Figure at least $6k for the 409, toss in a single axel trailer, a few less options and this could be a 40K boat, compare that to a $60K 200 and it looks to me like a pretty good deal. Resale? How much are those $60K SN200's going to depreciate in a couple of years. Two years from now a 60K 200 is going to fetch maybe 40K, a 20K hit. I'm a SN guy but for my next boat I am going to take a serious look at this boat. Carpet? I wish my SN had either pads or snap in carpet, glued down carpet is a pain to keep clean. I'm kind of excited to see how this boat skis and drives. Keeping an open mind and an eye on my wallet.

I want to say that we have a well lit site and our investment is probably around 15K. We did all of the labor, other than the power upgrade ourselves. Best part is we had a blast doing it. Learned a lot and have a bunch of stories to tell. One of the coolest things about night skiing is the sound, both the boat and the skiers. If you do end up going with generators keep them isolated and if possible surround them with a wall to direct the sound away from the water. Construction tower lights work but it is hard to get them high enough to be effective. As lottawatta said, higher and closer to the water and you will need less lights.

We've done it for our show ski site. We do 3 shows each summer that are all sellouts. There is something very special about both skiing and watching skiing at night. Skiing is way cool because of the sense of speed. Watching because of the lack of distractions in the background. Your focus becomes locked on the person on the water. Very cool. The biggest and absolute first consideration has to be power. You need lots and then maybe a little more. We put in a 400 amp service that is split into two 200 amp pedestals, one North, one South. Most of the stadium lighting comes as a triple tap setup. Go with 220 and you will cut the amps for each light in half vs 120 volt. Second consideration is poles. We were fortunate to have a tree lined site so we put platforms up in old growth trees with some minor limbing. Figure at least a 50 foot elevation and placement to keep the lights out of the drivers and skiers eyes. Talk to your power company and their subs for pole installation. Usually somebody has a supply of used poles that will work just fine. Plan your light installation out and rent a 4x4 two person man lift for the install. The lights are pretty heavy and you need a second set of hands to do it efficiently. Wire, bigger is better and run 220. There are several online electrical calculators that can tell you line loss and what size wire you need for the length of the runs. Watch the price of copper and you can do it for a fairly reasonable cost. Talk to electrical distributors, make a friend and they will sometimes do it for cost. Trenchers, walk behind self propelled units, can be rented for less than a hundred bucks a day and it is amazing how much you can do in 6 hours. Lights. 1000 watt, metal halide stadium lights. Start with one at each position and then add them as required to fill in dark spots. There are multiple ways to acquire the lights. Keep an eye out for local schools upgrading. Check with electrical distributors and tell them what you are doing. Ask them to be on the lookout for any units that are basically "scratch and dent". People will be amazed when you tell them what you plan on doing. We I did ours everyone I talked to outside of the skiing world thought this was so "out of the box" that they jumped on board and have been super supportive. Lots of great advice and help form professionals. Hey Jim I found a light, hey Jim I found some wire, still happening today. There is a revolution coming in lighting and as new very efficient lights become available schools, stadiums will be upgrading and more used lights will become available. LED's are the next wave and when they get all of the bugs worked out everything else is going to be obsolete (just my non-professional opinion). Take your time and make it fun.

Thanks Ed. Felt the same way after skiing behind the 200 and comparing it to my 09 196. At this point the cost of the 200 just doesn't justify the expenditure for me. These toys are big money now.

Don't they use motorcycles in some of the olympic velodrome bicycle events? Not that it matters, Greece was the last shot for waterskiing. Greece wanted waterskiing and nominated it but because they were so late and disorganized in their preparations the olympic committee removed their option for adding a sport. Now it is all about REMOVING sports from the olympics to get some cost containment. No more money from the USOC for the Pan Am Games so how long does organized water ski pursue the "dream"? What benefit comes back from USA-WS's continued participation as a USOC member, what costs? No idea, but would like to know. Maybe the biggest problem is that as the "dream" has faded it hasn't been replaced with a new path towards growing the sport at the top end.

From an engineering standpoint it is hard for me to imagine any obstacle that could not be overcome. On the other hand from a business standpoint I can't see how you overcome the financial side of it. Speed control is useable by everyone who owns an inboard ski/wakeboard boat. Small enough market but their making it work. How would you ever get a GPS steer system to be profitable in a minuscule number of boats? What if it's not retrofittable? Sport would implode.

Thanks Horton, interesting boat. Anxious to drive and ski behind one, if anyone gets the opportunity please post your thoughts.

Did anyone get a chance to take a look at the Carbon Pro at Nationals and if so what were your impressions? Thanks Jim

Scot, please check your link, not working for me. Thanks

Good point ktm300 and I agree. They need to have the resources to get the boats out everywhere and crack the big 3 ceiling. This isn't a startup company, they have built 3 event boats before, so hopefully they have the resources and the vision to invest in a 5 year plan. Time will tell. Anybody seen the boat?

I imagine that the success of the Carbon Pro from Centurion will hinge largely on pricing. Nobody is going to pay more for a Carbon Pro than the cost of one from the Big 3 for a new boat. If they can get it to tournaments, do a good job with fit and finish and most importantly get the cost under a similarly equipped MC, Malibu or CC then it just might happen. I'm hoping they make it work, competition makes the breed stronger and more innovative. PCM powertrain is a great way to start.

thanimal They're not dumb, the circumstances have changed. Banks were lending OTHER peoples money freely before the collapse. Banks acted as brokers and as a result had no skin in the game. Loans were packaged, sold off as triple A securties by firms like Goldman, who were on the side betting they would fail by purchasing derivatives, and when they did fail the bottom fell out of the economy. Why are banks being so stingy now? Because banks now have to lend their OWN money the rules have changed. I know a couple of small town bankers and they have to triple check everything to make sure all of the "t"'s are crossed and the "i"s are dotted. It is a new world in terms of consumerism and lending, the days of easy credit are gone forever. Boats are a fringe luxury item and a risk for banks. Cash is king and 50-60K 3 event boats and 100K wakeboard boats are now out of the range of most consumers.

Pretty sure Gekko went bankrupt and is no longer making boats. I'm going to go out on a limb and say tight credit for the foreseeable future might make the difference. Lots, maybe a majority, of the boats sold in the past were financed. Easy credit drove the market, easy credit that is now gone. Financing, if available is going to be stricter and require a higher down payment going forward. Might make the difference this time around.

I can't begrudge a dealer for making a good margin on a boat, after all how many do they sell? 20-30 (ski/wake) per year for a large dealer? My question is what does the manufacturer make? Has to be more than the dealer and if you have a brand spanking new high capacity factory running below 60% capacity the costs have to be astronomical. A manufacturer with low overhead might be able to come in and scoop the market if they had a quality product. Will be interesting to see what the pricing is on the Carbon Pro.

CC, Malibu and MC have all just recently, since 06, invested in larger manufacturing facilities. How much of the cost of a new boat from those companies is tied directly to the costs of paying for those factories ? They built on the myth of ever expanding sales and then the bottom fell out. High volume factories and low sales numbers means high boat prices and that leaves the door open for a low cost manufacturer to step in. I have no clue what kind of shape Fineline industires is in but if they are not hung with a new factory they could make it happen. Seriously, what is the actual cost of a new boat? Has to be significantly less than 50 percent of the consumer price. Why not a Ski Centurion? They've made 3 event boats before, not real good ones in my opinion, and from what I hear the boarders like their wakeboard boats. PCM drivline means the same quality as you're getting n a CC, so as the owner of many 196's who is not overly thrilled with the 200, I say bring it on.

USA-WS 3 event lost another 475 members thru April of this year over 09. Wasn't so long ago that there were 15,000 members and now it is half of that and going down every year so yeah I would have to say it has lost favor with individuals and families. Maybe the grassroots program can turn that around but accessibility is a huge problem. Wish there was a magic pill to change the trend but with the economy probably in the tank for the foreseeable future it doesn't look good. Doing my part to bring people in but it is not easy. Yes you can teach them to ski and I do, but that is a far cry from getting them sufficient quality water time to get them hooked.

Hair spray. Will take it right off, test first on the underside of a seat to make sure you don't get an unwanted reaction with the vinyl. I had this happen a few years ago, used cheapo hairspray and the dang pen marks wiped right off. No marks, no discoloration of the vinyl, just like it never happened.

Marco, thanks for the update. It sounds like the ultimate answer for the 200 would be for CC to make the 409 the standard engine for the 200.

I've heard enough, my 09 196 will be due for replacement next year and I will ask Correct Craft to dust off the 196 mold and build me another one. Can't imagine the cost of a 200 with the ZR-409.