h2odawg79

From the "Holding Position through the wakes" thread: All of these vid's are dryland pull variations by short line skiers and you'll probably hear the names Schnitz and Lucky Lowe! There are several Pro's who advocate the use of Dryland drills. Not soley of course, but inconjuction with proper on-water drills and practice... It is also a good stretching and conditioning tool. The last vid. is a series of warm up drills for Slalom by Brian Detrick, demonstrating a short pull variation at about 2min's in... There is much that can be gained through Dry land drills in Slalom and in several other Sports as well. the Lucky Lowe Drill Robert Marking These examples are not the final word on the subject. They are simply the only examples on youtube that I am aware of....

Thx @Skijay and @Than_Bogan for being bold enuf to speak up. (there are plenty of others who can shed light on this subject as well...) @MattP, I can name names, but dragging Pro's into another no win situation for them would be really stupid on my part and TOTALLY unfair to them. But, in all fairness I could not care less what you do or have done. This not my fight! Do it or don't do it, I really do not care! Just prove me wrong or let it go.... P.S. Most of my drills are NOT static, hangin' around like raw Beef in a OLD Rocky movie. They are VERY Purposeful and DYNAMIC.

I seriously doubt this poll will conclude anything more then who does what! -That in itself does not constitute or vilify anything... Again, what Pro Shortliners are doing and what they are TEACHING, can be 2 different things. Not to mention, THE BIGGEST DIFFERENTIAL MAY BE GOOD SKIERS DO NOT NECESSARILY MAKE GOOD COACHES... A Great coach can see the picture and express the tactic from the Students point of view. A Good Skier can often only relate to what works for them....

@KcSwerver, There is more then enuf contributions above to reinforce the credibility and effectiveness of dryland training. It is very common tool for teaching Pro's and it's benefits can reach into several areas... It seems that many people discount it with "Opinions" based on pure rationalizations and NOT any formal experience using it... Like AB said, it ain't a New thing... People are funny, I know stubborn people who complained about forearm problems for years Skiing, but would not even try a radiused Handle. (even after lots of prompting) Then one day they actually tried one and it solved their problems! -You can lead a horse to water, but sometimes........... Yes, I advocate the use of Radiused Handles too! I think you would benefit by putting your tie off point LOWER. I have one at about 27" above floor hgt. (Trailer hitch hgt is even better!) -yours is too high to be able to effectively get the Handle down to your thighs and get into a proper lean... An angled foot platform would also help. BUT, remember you are only in your "Pull Position" for about 2 sec's while skiing. That means the angle of the Rope is changing every 10th of a second! So, I like to constantly move left to Rt. and Rt. to Lt. with my foot positions. That's one of the reasons I have not implemented an angled foot platform yet... Rather then quitting the Dryland drills b/c of possible "Bad Form," I would simply continue to work on your form with a Camera, video or mirrors. A combination of water and land work will be the Best! So, DO NOT QUIT after you start your season. Continue to work back and forth and you will learn exceedingly more about your positioning, which will benefit you both On & OFF the Water. Like Shadow Boxing, the Batting Cage, the Driving Range or using mirrors, Etc... you are working on disciplines and techniques, consciously, unconscientiously and physically. Creating an active state of familiarity between the Mind and the Muscles. You are unconscientiously working and stretching your stabilizer muscles, your Joints and connective tissues and even conditioning the skin on your palms and fingers. So, work on achieving a good balance of good form and technique.

Wide Ride Ski Measurements The ski mist be specified by the manufactures as Shaped, Mids, Parabolic Wide skies mush measure minimum 7.25 inches in width – measured one inch front of the manufacturers original placement of the front boot With a maximum length of 71 inches

I believe there is a lot of benefits that can derived from executing dry land drills. More on this when I get chance to sit down and write... But I will quickly say; it can be as beneficial as "Shadow Boxing" or working in front of a mirror for Dancers and a multitude of other examples, anyone in Martial Arts knows and practices the moves and the disciplinary aspects Religiously! Not a good comparison; I really feel that what a "Shortliner" does and what he/she might teach are often 2 entirely different things, depending on the Skiers ability level. We're not talkin about trying to teach a shortliner how to leverage. Not to mention, there are very few shortliners who are not on the water more often then all the Joe Average skiers would be doing drills. I'll try to find some time later to put something a little more useful on here

Would have Loved to been there! Unfortunately, I had to pass on this one. I Hope they will continue these camps. What a Great opportunity for everyone! Grow the Sport!

@crashman, Maybe you could get @ChrisRossi to elaborate on the technique. Like most things, it is multi faceted and dimensional. But, the basis is sound and surely necessary for all.

Agreed with @MISkier I have the Drysuit, wetsuit, Shorty and Heater top. So, I'll choose according to the day and cond's. But, upper body Warmth is my Top priority. Too many bad things happen to my Back when the muscles are not kept completely warm.

@countymountie , I'm not sure I understand your question or what you are doing right now. (ski size and speed) But, I will say; I also have a 67" Strada 55 and my Theory is A LOT better @ 30 mph and it is noticeably better @ 32mph through 32off. and maybe even @ -35. One day just for kicks, I need to run my Theory through @ 34mph and see how far up the rope it will perform. I would surely need the wing back on for that! I will also say; I am a fan of progression and I don't always subscribe to conventional thinking! So, using shaped ski for 32mph and under makes total sense to me. In fact, for getting the feel for the dynamics of short line, 30mph and gradually increasing to 32mph makes sense as well. Simply put, One can ski -15 at any speed (even 34) until the Cows come home and they will never be fully prepared for the dynamic of -22 and -28 will be like a whole other Sport! But, if one will dabble Progressively (not aimlessly) with 30mph on a Shaped Ski and start cutting line as they are able, they will usually improve even yrs. faster then the one still trying to get good enuf @ -15 at speed on a Traditional ski, before they cut to -22. Fundamentally, 30mph with good technique is worth its wgt. in gold. As is, progressively cutting the rope to at least -32 and working on -15 thru -32... When this becomes easy and dependable, one can bump 1/2 mph and start all over again. If this cycle is applied and repeated & repeated over one entire Season, I will guarantee most skiers will make more progress then he/she has made in several seasons or will make in several future seasons doing it the old fashioned way... (I've seen it work miracles) A shaped ski is a HUGE benefit at slower speeds. They are more stable platform, but also less radical. They may not make up for time with lightening speed. But, they will reward the skier by Not punishing them as much for bad behavior technically and they will also perform much better over all at below 34mph in the course. On a separate note, there is plenty of evidence that wider skis are becoming more main stream these days even for 34 & 36mph. They are a different animal and some guys will never buy into them. But, especially for larger skiers combined with ZO, I am convinced in the advantages of a Mid or Wide ride design in a High end Ski. Geeez, I can ramble.... -sorry

@scotchipman, I hear ya! I've only got out 1 time all of '13. I had skied right up til X-mas wk. and had planned to get out at least once a month in Jan. & Feb and then be pretty much back at once a wk. in March.... Ummmmm, welllllll, ....there's Hertz and then there's "Not exactly"

@XR6Hurricane, I think your question is a great one. The following is only my opinion of why I said the Lighter skier in INT would probably clean house. For me personally, I believe everything has to be taken into account. The Skier, their ability level, their objective or goal, their equip. and set up. So, it is possible that many things can effect the outcome and/or apply differently for different skiers… I’ve seen lighter skiers run through the course at 30mph on their “Traditional” ski with literally no problems. If I do that, I am sinking and plowing my way through the entire course. I cannot even begin to get free of the boat unless I’m about 32off. –and then just barely. It is more like a gym workout and less like Skiing! For 30mph, I am on a 67” Theory. At 30 mph and 190-200lbs, I feel as though I am still sitting rather low in the water from the pre-turn and back to 1st white water. Maintaining a lot of speed is difficult. This for me, creates the physically demanding part. I must continue to fight to regain my speed. The over sized Surface area is what allows me to Ski at 30mph. But, B/c of the surface area (specifically the Width) there is also an awful lot of Ski in the water during the turn aspect, when the ski is on edge. It is also little harder to roll over on edge then a Traditional Ski as well, so I put a little more into it physically. I believe a lighter person (150 or less) with the exact same ability level as a 200lb person, has the advantage (in INT WideRide Div.) of being able to use the same length ski as their traditional ski, but in a Shaped Ski like a Theory. Which, would have enough Surface area to “Float” the Skier properly at 30mph. If I were to go to the factory spec size for me, I’d need to use a 69” Theory. It floats much better, (I’ve skied it) but, it is just too big for me to navigate at shorter lines. (it’s a School Bus) As far as the wake pop goes, I would think that it may be more difficult for a lighter person. But, w/o question that wake IS pretty big at 30mph and it will demand a very good Stacked position from everyone. A good Stack will give the skier more stability, more speed and better angle which all will result in a Ski that is on a better edge and will “Slice” through the Wakes better. -Rather then bouncing off as much. But, even Marcus Brown gets a little Wake Pop @ 30mph. So @ 30mph, it is hard (maybe impossible) to eliminate completely. Wider Ski's also have wider tails and they Pop Bigger! But, a Good Stacked position will also reduce or eliminate any neg. Pop effects upon the Skier.

@XR6Hurricane, I will be glad to throw out some thoughts. I'll have to wait til later today before I'll have a min. to put together some comprehensive thoughts... (it's Sunday and the day is booked solid!)

Like @Horton said: "Is a bit of work but is fun" Amen! Physically, it's a Killer for me. It feels like I'm skiing with a giant Wing set at 12 deg's! (and that is with the Wing removed!) I bet smaller (lighter) skiers, can clean house at 30mph. I think it's a Great tool for practice and a lot of fun! Plus, I believe the INT can be another great way to promote and grow the Sport.

@pl0tz, "BTW.. to go further off topic, does MB do his lil fireside chats anymore?? or did that die as well"? @MarcusBrown, With regards to the above post, what are you up to these days? Are there anymore "Live Chat" webcasts in the future? Thx

Yes, the term “Fall Back” can be very mis-leading! One does not fall back on the Ski itself. But, rather back Away from the boat, with the ski on edge. The “Fall” aspect is actually more the combination of the allowing the Ski to move slightly fwd. (in front) and allowing your Arms to go straight, while moving or “pushing” the Handle directly down to your thighs. Here’s some timeless advice from Chris Rossi Quote: “When you place your outside hand back on the handle after a turn, think "load is bad, get rid of it" To do this, as soon as you feel load or pull from the boat, push the handle down. I think the big word here is "push" the handle down. Almost everyone I watch ski instantly "pulls" on the handle after the turn. Any pulling of the handle results in you holding your body upright, thus minimizing ski angle. By pushing the handle down your leg, you are letting your body fall more off the edge of your ski, thus increasing edge angle. The great thing about this is it takes considerably less energy to do, and you gain a lot of space into the next buoy. This lesson applies to every skier at every level. If you are having a hard time visualizing what I am teaching, try this. Hook a handle up to a post or the pylon of the boat. Now put your self in your wake crossing position. From here I want you to pull harder on the handle. The visual for this would be to try to bend the pylon or post you are connected to. When you do this, what you'll find is that your body actually comes higher than where it started. Since the post doesn't move, any pulling force, will inevitably raise your body, thus reducing ski angle. Now get back in that wake crossing position and "push" the handle down your leg. Your body naturally falls away as far as it can, thus gaining maximum ski edge. I'd like everyone to give this some thought and on your next ski set, see what you feel”. Chris

@skimech, Have you played with any fin settings on the 67" Theory @30 mph and -35 and shorter? I have an adjustable fin Blk. on mine and have tweaked. I'm close, but I'm still not quite there. Maybe Andy could perfect it??? Of course if the INT isn't really happening anymore, I don't need to worry about it...

@Wish, Excellent points!

Agreed with Horton, any of the Radar Theory's are solid and conform. The H.O. Triumph is very popular at INT as well. Are there any INT Slalom events happening anymore? There has been none that I am aware of near TN. (other then Wake) in the past 3 yrs. or so.

@ShaneH, I see your point and agree. That is why I tried to specifically address the terms in the above post. "Lock & Load" in context to my orig. post; is not about the physical act of Locking down or Loading anything. It is by Def. to "Prepare for an imminent event"... -it's a signal to be ready or prepared... I agree (and stated as such) Skiing is Not a Tug o War. But, if you will take the time to watch KC or Nate in the above clips, (Still frame it even) you will notice their very distinct moves and more importantly, their body positions that physically and mechanically end up in the same position as Tug o war and they are doing it for the very same reason; LEVERAGE much like wrestling and Martial arts using Leverage to Harness the opponents power.... Now, in teaching someone to be able to instantaneously hit a Good Stacked (Leveraged) position, they must 1st understand why they need "it" and what "it" looks like and what it "the position" feels like. Then they can begin to try to achieve it. This is where Dryland drills can be in part, a useful tool in building and maintaining the proper foundation and skills. -not to mention, they are a great tool for conditioning and stretching... Also, I Love the Music on both of the vid. clips!

@SkiKolb, Looking fwd to it. I'm still working out the final details. Geeeez, I hope that I can get out on the water soon and get my sea legs back before then...

Here's 2 of the most exciting young Talents in the Sport demonstrating the importance of a fluid move into their Stacked position out of the turn. When I mention "Lock and Load" (as I have before) I am referring to the Military definition of "Being prepared and completely Ready" (a proactive measure) -Not in "Loading the Line" They both demonstrate the effectiveness of being in a Great Leveraged position. i.e. a very stable "Tug of War" position. Skiing is Not a "Tug o War" But, the leveraged position directly out of the Turn is almost exactly done the same way and for the same reason as it is in Tug o War. Watch Nate especially at 39.5 and out of #4 ball, (1:19min) He Turns and instantaneously "Falls Back" (he physically locks and loads) into a Great Stack (Tug o War) position. Then note his insane acceleration to #5 ball! Minus his Instantaneous Stack, into a great Tug o War position, Nate would get yanked OTF and tossed like a rag doll at a Yard Sale! Watch KC doing a similar move especially at .42sec and 59-1:10. This clip jumps around and KC is not always on a very short leash, But his move is very obvious on the shorter lines, deliberate and very effective.

@Horton, I do not understand. If filling out your Profile is the key, then why are there "Advanced Topic Members" who's Profile is Not completely filled out? How does one's profile affect or qualify the Member to be able to contribute to helpful or positive Advanced Topic discussion? Sorry, maybe it's just too early in the morning and I'm not thinking clearly yet...

Funny... -my above post went directly to 9 down from the top of the page just as soon as I posted it. Hmmmmmmmm @Brady, I guess your thread doesn't rate

Great to hear that you are out and having AHA moments! Next time out, stare down that PUNK Course and say: (with your Best DeNiro) "YOU TALKIN' TO ME, YOU TALKIN' TO ME"?!?! =-D