@Horton That is exactly right, your convo with Terry is spot on. Building on what you said at 39, 41, 43 if you watch Nate, Joel, & Freddie they don't finish with their ski pointed 90, because it allows them to control when and where to start loading instead of having to load immediately off the ball and get peeled apart at centerline because there's to much load/speed to handle. I've been working with Rini a lot on my own skiing and learned a ton, but with all of our conversations The things that stand out to me the most with Joel is his legs and what has doing with his arms off the 2nd wake. His legs are super strong and he tries to not to let his legs compress anywhere which equals speed. His arms off the 2nd wake are insane. He rides the swing of the boat so well, I remember talking to @Chris Rossi watching Joels 41 off he ran and what he does off the 2nd wake saved him in the back half of the pass.