No Fuel getting to motor

[Drew_Wright_OBXtoFl]

Boat was full of gas a week ago headed out and turned boat off to get ready for a set. Turned the key and no fire/ignition. I have had fuel pumps in the past go bad so this was my first thought. Pulled fuel pump and rebuilt with help from a MC mechanic via text. Once I installed the pump it ran fine. Put back in the water last night and left it idling while i put the trailer away. Motor had stoped when i got back. Now it is doing the same thing. Turns over but no ignition. Pulled the control module cover as I had done before and no fuses were blown. My mechanic buddy suggested moving the control modules and it fired up but subsequent attempts failed. I am at a loss. Any suggestions?

[Rednucleus]

Boat details please - make/year/motor 

[Zman]

Not sure what you mean by "moving the control modules".  What are the control modules you refer to?

And, yes - make/model/year/engine?

[Drew_Wright_OBXtoFl]

Yes that is need 2015, 5.7 liter, limor, in the Prostar. About 900 hours

Here it is running after after installed the new fuel pumps

It then died with about 5 minutes of running on land and 5 minutes in the water. 

This is the control module. After it ran the 10 minutes and stoped pulled one of the black square modules and switched it with another. It ran 10 seconds or so and i cut off because I did not have water connected. Then I could not get it to start again. 

[Zman]

I am wondering if you may have a fuel pump relay acting up?  Possibly it was failing intermittently, and now has failed completely.

But, if the relay is inside your Power Control Module that you already replace, that would not be it.

 

When you said ...

8 hours ago, Drew_Wright_OBXtoFl said:

pulled one of the black square modules and switched it with another

... were the "black square modules" inside your Power Control Module that you just replaced?  Maybe those are your relays for the the fuel pump and ignition system? Pictures?

[BraceMaker]

The black boxes are relays when you pluck one off and look at the back are the pins burned at all? Do the sockets look cooked?

Pull the involved relay out and test it.

 

[Mastercrafter]

When you turn ignition on, can you hear fuel pump prime? May have to have someone in the back of the boat listening. It could be fuel, but it could also be a number of other electrical issues to do with crank position sensor, coil, ignition module, distributor... the list goes on. 

Getting a fuel pressure gauge hooked up to the fuel rail could confirm or eliminate the suspected fuel issue. 

 

[TomH]

Crank with no fire could be a bad kill switch too.

[Mastercrafter]

27 minutes ago, TomH said:

Crank with no fire could be a bad kill switch too.

Other boats maybe, but on this generation Prostar, the kill switch turns off the “whole boat”, screen, engine ECU, etc 

[Zman]

2 hours ago, BraceMaker said:

The black boxes are relays when you pluck one off and look at the back are the pins burned at all? Do the sockets look cooked?

Pull the involved relay out and test it.

 

I mistakenly thought that @Drew_Wright_OBXtoFl had replaced the Power Control Module, but looks like he just swapped the two identical relays, which I believe one is for the fuel pump and the other is the ignition (on my boat that is the case).

So, if swapping them got the boat running for 5 to 10 minutes, maybe one or both of the relays have become heat sensitive? Or, have just become worn out.  You can test them outside of the Control Module, but I have found a relay to "test good" but still not work when plugged in.

Relays are cheap.  @Drew_Wright_OBXtoFl for about $15 you should be able to get a pair of these relays on Amazon and replace both of the identical relays in your Module.  I hate to just throw money at an unknown issue, but this could be your problem and is not too expensive to try.

When (if) you do this, get a can of CRC Contact Cleaner and spray it into the sockets that the relays plug into to remove any contaminants or light corrosion that might cause poor electical contact.

23 hours ago, Drew_Wright_OBXtoFl said:

Pulled fuel pump and rebuilt with help from a MC mechanic via text.

Drew, I'm curious to learn more about rebuilding your fuel pump. Is your pump the in-tank cannister style with 2 pumps inside the cannister?  If so, I'd like to learn how you went about changing those out.  I replaced the entire assembly years ago under warranty when mine failed and I still have the old unit.  I would like to rebuild it to have handy if I have an issue down the road. Mine has 2 Bosch pumps inside it.

[Mastercrafter]

24 minutes ago, Zman said:

 

Drew, I'm curious to learn more about rebuilding your fuel pump. Is your pump the in-tank cannister style with 2 pumps inside the cannister?  If so, I'd like to learn how you went about changing those out.  I replaced the entire assembly years ago under warranty when mine failed and I still have the old unit.  I would like to rebuild it to have handy if I have an issue down the road. Mine has 2 Bosch pumps inside it.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000BZGGV6/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1 

Here's the pump itself. I haven't changed one out yet, but have two of these on the shelf as spares. 

[BraceMaker]

I also don't love throwing parts which is why often to test a relay for a couple spade connectors and some wire you can crimp on -male spade - wire - female spade - fuse - female spade - wire - male spade poke that in the relay socket to jumper power across the relay and voile you have a "fully on" relay bypass.

Or you can buy a relay test kit but generally I just poke a spade connector in the hole and then verify with a jumper that the relay is the culprit although often times its the socket too.

 

[Zman]

47 minutes ago, Mastercrafter said:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000BZGGV6/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1 

Here's the pump itself. I haven't changed one out yet, but have two of these on the shelf as spares. 

Cool, thanks.  Without removing the pumps in my cannister, I could not see the full Bosch part numbers.  But, something like $127 for the 2 pumps is far cheaper than around $700 - $800 for a whole new pump cannister assembly.

[DW]

Most vehicles (cars, boats) use a very similar fuel pump in a cannister.  If you are willing to dig in, the pump is much cheaper than the entire cannister since it is pretty much a very common part and lots are made.  The stuff in the cannister rarely fails.  A word of warning from experience - given lots are made, there are sub quality options available, specifically in my case on a pick up truck, an Airtex brand pump which failed in 6 months.  Recommendation - go with known quality brands such as Bosch and Delphi.

[Zman]

Thanks @DW

My apologies to @Drew_Wright_OBXtoFl for taking his thread a lil sideways.

Drew, keep us posted on any progress with your issue.  I'm curious if swapping out relays helps any.

[Drew_Wright_OBXtoFl]

We are up and running. Skied a set on Thursday and all went well. I did replace the 2 fuel pumps located inside the fuel pump canister. This is pretty easy but it was tricky trying to figure out how to get them to release or just out so i could remove and replace. You Tube helped and I found 2 pinching clips on each side and it releases a plastic holder within the pump canister. Its really just get them out and then use new stainless steel clamps to clamp them on. One disturbing find was exposed wires I was told this was not an issue but 20 gallons of gas and exposed black i.e. negative wire made me nervous. I heat shrink as best I could and hoped for the best. 
But recall it only ran a few minutes after installing the new pumps then it failed and yes I replaced the black modules on the relay and while it worked for a moment did not restart once I hooked up the water. The pump definitely was not getting power. I finally got my mechanic buddy to come and we kept trying to find the reason it was not getting power. Eventually we made our way down the electrical housing where there are 2 more fuses noted as pump. I pointed these out to my mechanic buddy and told him there was a fuse for the heater system, not the issue and a big block module I was not sure was for. Ended up being this larger module. He got it to fire and run after separating and bending the clips in this module. I replaced it after I skied Thursday. So we believe it was this larger modular and it’s running or it some other gremlin we exercised out for now. If anyone wants a picture of what I replaced I can post it sometime next week. Right now I am in Durham NC with my son’s new born daughter. She has a tight grip and I whispered to her as she grabbed by pinky “Ski Handel”

[A_B]

I went through a lot of time and money on chasing a problem years ago and one thing I learned from that was to listen for the fuel pumps to prime before firing up each time.  My problem ended up being a bad ECM that wasn't sending power to the pumps on a random basis.