Would changing the dates increase your interest in Nationals?

[Horton]

As long as I can remember nationals have been held in late August.  50 years ago it was more normal for schools to start the fall semester in early September so there was no conflict for kids and parents. For whatever reason, many school districts & colleges now start the fall semester earlier than in decades past.  

We could move Nationals and Regionals earlier in the season by 2 weeks. Why not? 

OR

I have not flushed out all the Pros and Cons of moving Nationals to Labor Day.  It is already a 3 day weekend. A lot working people and students only need to take off Friday to make it a 4 day weekend. It is not a perfect solution but a Wednesday- Sunday with a Monday travel day might be better than a Tuesday - Saturday.

This is 20% less vacation days needed compared to the current schedule. 

If we moved Nationals to Labor day we could leave Regional where it is so skiers do not have to take 2 trips back to back.

 

[dave2ball]

How would you take a national event that runs 6 days on 3 lakes and 7 days on 2 lakes and condense into 4 days?  Cut entry’s?  Raise the entry fees to make it profitable, take only the top 25 in each division?  A family would still miss 3 days of school for a Thursday start. Not too sure that would work. I like the thought because it would make the nationals prestigious again. 

[Horton]

@dave2ball This year Nationals was Tues - Saturday. 5 days. Any way you want to slice it - a 3 day holiday weekend means less vacation days than a 2 day weekend. For some skiers at the beginning of the week, it makes zero difference.  For the skiers on Friday -Sunday or Monday it could make a huge difference. I would propose that School-age and College age kids ski at the end of the week. This idea is clearly not flushed out but do we have to do everything exactly the way it has been done since the Stone Age?

[Luv2Ski]

My kid had to miss the beginning of school this year so that was less than ideal. He missed a week and 1/2 so we could make a vacation out of nationals. Earlier would seem impossible due to the regionals attendance requirement so Labor Day would be way better in my opinion. The kids would still miss school but the year would be underway and wouldn’t have to miss getting settled in the first week. It would also give people a little more time after regionals. Plus work slows down for us late summer so later is better for us. 😊. I know it’s impossible to make everyone happy though. 

[ETskier]

Earlier would really shorten the season for the northern half of the country. Labor day weekend could work out.  Schools are starting so early now, we really can't avoid conflict.  Regionals could push back to first week in August. Only downside to Labor Day, it's already a very busy travel weekend. Air, land, and hotels.

[Luv2Ski]

@ETskierGood point about the busy travel weekend already. That could increase travel cost and headaches. 

[dave2ball]

@Horton I see your thought process with kids/college kids skiing at the end of the week. So the parents ski first thing on Thursday the kids still need to come out with them for the event. Yes you would  use less vacation days the kids may still miss the same school days. As for college once back in classes isn’t all about collegiate skiing with tournaments and classes and parties.  Don’t forget  about the officials. They need to be there early to make sure all is good set up the boats where they will be ie slalom lake jump etc. I’m looking at the logistics of it all. Change is good like the idea 

[jgills88]

I'm not sure about moving it back, but pushing Nationals to Labor Day weekend would crush attendance for M/W1. Depending on the region, collegiate tournaments have already started, and if teams aren't going to tournaments that weekend, it's a major recruiting weekend to get new people on the water. Many college skiers who would qualify for nationals are the ones running their teams, they can't/won't blow off their best chance to get new skiers for their teams. 

[Adam Caldwell]

If I remeber correctly the INT Nationals was either mid September or early October.  There was NO shortage of kids and families attending those events.  It also gave people up north an excuse to ski longer into the fall.  Only tough part is it it would make getting tournament rounds for the next season going a little tougher.  I think with regionals and nationals so close together it hinders people from going to both.   

Id love to see October for a Nationals date.  Would keep people active in skiing local tournaments more also to stay sharp going into nationals.

[buechsr]

2 hours ago, jgills88 said:

I'm not sure about moving it back, but pushing Nationals to Labor Day weekend would crush attendance for M/W1. Depending on the region, collegiate tournaments have already started, and if teams aren't going to tournaments that weekend, it's a major recruiting weekend to get new people on the water. Many college skiers who would qualify for nationals are the ones running their teams, they can't/won't blow off their best chance to get new skiers for their teams. 

Reasonable concern, but this year there were 15 M1 skiers and 10 W1 skiers.  Even assuming all 25 cancelled going to nationals, I'd have to think 25 more skiers would be picked up by leveraging a 3 day weekend.

[The_MS]

INT nats were held mid Oct

 

 

 

[Horton]

@jgills88

makes a good point about the collegiate conflict. I think that might be the death nail in my Labor Day weekend idea.

[buechsr]

5 minutes ago, Horton said:

@jgills88

makes a good point about the collegiate conflict. I think that might be the death nail in my Labor Day weekend idea.

Is it?  Of the 15 M1 skiers, only 2 are from the same city, just 4 from the same state (CA).  No one else was even from the same state.

Of the 10 in W1, no one from the same city, only 2 from the same state (TN).

Point being, if "teams" are recruiting that weekend, it doesn't seem like nationals is sopping the "team" dry of manpower to do so.  No, I didn't research each skier to see how many may be from the same team.  

[Horton]

@buechsr

we want as many men/women 1 as possible at Nationals. The collegiate schedule is frantic so I can see that as a friction. 

anyhow, I'm just glad we're having this conversation and that people are thinking about it. we've always had Nationals in late August - the world has changed and we haven't

[buechsr]

11 minutes ago, Horton said:

@buechsr

we want as many men/women 1 as possible at Nationals. The collegiate schedule is frantic so I can see that as a friction. 

anyhow, I'm just glad we're having this conversation and that people are thinking about it. we've always had Nationals in late August - the world has changed and we haven't

Sure...but is that any different than any other divisions?  I dunno, like B1-5?  Just noting the question, if Nationals was LD in 2024, how many of those 25 M1 and W1 skiers would not have come (plus how many more WOULD) have come...and is 1 skier from a team really adversely affecting LD recruitment?  That said, I don't know the NCWSA tourney schedule.

 

I agree its a great discussion.  I voted yes on both proposals.

[jgills88]

28 minutes ago, buechsr said:

Sure...but is that any different than any other divisions?  I dunno, like B1-5?  Just noting the question, if Nationals was LD in 2024, how many of those 25 M1 and W1 skiers would not have come (plus how many more WOULD) have come...and is 1 skier from a team really adversely affecting LD recruitment?  That said, I don't know the NCWSA tourney schedule

I could see it if they could pick up a good amount of junior skiers, but making decisions that only help older skiers and hinder younger ones would eventually dry up any sort of participation in the sport. 

 

As far as one skier not being a big deal for recruiting, that's true if it's a "normal" member of a ski team, but the ones who would qualify for nationals are typically the skiers who are president/VP, or captains of their teams. It's really difficult to get people to commit to something if the person in charge isn't even there. 

 

As far as collegiate schedule, Auburn held a tournament the week before Labor day, and Ohio State held their annual tournament during labor day.  The season is over for most teams by the end of September, and everyone by mid-October. It's quick and frantic, not a lot of time for skiers to make another trip and miss more class when their schedules are absolutely packed for a month

[Horton]

I'm curious about all of you who voted that 2 weeks earlier would be worse than the current date. why would moving regionals and Nationals 2 weeks earlier in the summer be a substantial negative?

[Hallpass]

1 hour ago, Horton said:

I'm curious about all of you who voted that 2 weeks earlier would be worse than the current date. why would moving regionals and Nationals 2 weeks earlier in the summer be a substantial negative?

Our kids get out of School around June 15.  Later if snow days are tacked on.

Even if an adult, there is often still snow on the ground in June.

You can try to drive down the hill and ski somewhere warmer on the weekends before July, but the kids are tied up with State championships in Swimming, Baseball, Track, etc. Through the 3rd or 4th week of May.  Most of those meets on weekends.  Then, taking SATs, studying for finals, etc. in Late May and June, also on those available weekends.

Last year School Ended June 20.  West Regional commenced on July 23.  That's 4.5 weeks of skiing to prepare.  Nationals Aug 13, that's 7.5 weeks to prepare, but really losing one of those weeks to regionals.

My kid is not particularly competitive at Nationals, but that she can even get there, is kind of amazing.

Reduce the prep time to 3 weeks for Regionals, and 5 weeks for Nationals, and there is no way.

There is a lot of talk here about growing the sport.  However, limiting reasonable access to regionals and Nationals to only those who can ski year round and full time, is the exact opposite of growing the sport.

 

[Horton]

@Hallpass

That's an interesting and valid perspective. I think what would be ideal would be to have Regionals and Nationals scheduled to accommodate the largest number of skiers. It's always going to be a positive for somebody and a negative for somebody else. 

I have no idea what percent of the competitive skiers in the country are in your position / if you're in a small minority.

[buechsr]

19 minutes ago, Hallpass said:

Our kids get out of School around June 15.  Later if snow days are tacked on.

Even if an adult, there is often still snow on the ground in June.

You can try to drive down the hill and ski somewhere warmer on the weekends before July, but the kids are tied up with State championships in Swimming, Baseball, Track, etc. Through the 3rd or 4th week of May.  Most of those meets on weekends.  Then, taking SATs, studying for finals, etc. in Late May and June, also on those available weekends.

Last year School Ended June 20.  West Regional commenced on July 23.  That's 4.5 weeks of skiing to prepare.  Nationals Aug 13, that's 7.5 weeks to prepare, but really losing one of those weeks to regionals.

My kid is not particularly competitive at Nationals, but that she can even get there, is kind of amazing.

Reduce the prep time to 3 weeks for Regionals, and 5 weeks for Nationals, and there is no way.

There is a lot of talk here about growing the sport.  However, limiting reasonable access to regionals and Nationals to only those who can ski year round and full time, is the exact opposite of growing the sport.

 

All valid.

But is requiring kids to miss almost a whole week of their first week (or weeks) of school not just as problematic?

[BKistler]

14 hours ago, dave2ball said:

How would you take a national event that runs 6 days on 3 lakes and 7 days on 2 lakes and condense into 4 days?  Cut entry’s?  Raise the entry fees to make it profitable, take only the top 25 in each division?  A family would still miss 3 days of school for a Thursday start. Not too sure that would work. I like the thought because it would make the nationals prestigious again. 

Years ago I caught hell for suggesting that the Nationals wasn’t a national championship but rather a bloated national water ski festival. Making it much harder to qualify would shorten the event, enable it to be hosted at more venues, make it much more prestigious and restore the value of regional completions which have long been just pass- through pains in the butt. 

[Horton]

@BKistler

I have asked many times, what is the purpose of Nationals? A festival is a valid purpose. Crowning champions is a valid purpose. 

[Mateo_Vargas]

If Nationals gets pushed out later then it will take me a little longer to get into M5 or anyone else changing divisions.

[Jody_Seal]

Taking some ideology from another thread on BOS, the thousand cuts..

 A Big issue with the sport is there is really no enthusiasm in direction. no energy, current  direction really does not mean anything.  real competition in the sport only happens at the nationals for most awsa dedicated skiers. the weekend general tournament has basically no other mission then Rankings score. there is the pro tour for the open level athletes and that is a promising direction for the sport. however there are no more real competition tournaments for the amateur skiers as well as no stepping stone events as well as destination events.   List of events that used to have competitive meaning. Superstars, Lakeland open,Sr. Masters. even the regional s were considered a competitive stepping stone to a national title. Team Trials! No incentive events in today;s sport other then score or back yard world record.

I dont think for many skiers and family's it is so much as when but how will a date change enhance enthusiasm and improve the sport? i know this has been discussed at the directors level many times and solutions seem to be continue with 1959 thinking..

ideas:

get the regional mandate out of the formula and put the national qualification emphasis onto a state championship requirement. In regions where some states do not have a state tournament available a regional club may provide a competitive platform where seeding values are increased for national participation due the championship and competition aspect. but drop the mandate for regional participation as a required for national participation. putting the pre national qualification requirement at state level also helps with the double major travel expense for skiers and skiers family's. 

Like it or not it may be time to incorporate two separate national championships. A Junior or under 21 nationals and a general Adult National championships.  Most other sports do not mix their national juniors with adult competition. Time frame for junior skiers to compete in a stand alone jr national championship on a late July date takes care of the need to get it done before school starts. having a true junior nationals also opens the door for multi round competition and maybe even increased participation with the emphasis on a stand alone jr event.

 

4 minutes ago, BKistler said:

Years ago I caught hell for suggesting that the Nationals wasn’t a national championship but rather a bloated national water ski festival. Making it much harder to qualify would shorten the event, enable it to be hosted at more venues, make it much more prestigious and restore the value of regional completions which have long been just pass- through pains in the butt. 

    That is another. Which way does the sport want to go? now a day's boat company's could care less if membership sells boats for them, I am sure the boat manufacturer's would prefer a bloated festival over a shortened competitive event.

 

No amount of date changes for nationals is going to be beneficial until this organization re events themselves and puts back a more economical platform for competition for the average joe skier..

[ScarletArrow]

When you remove the requirement that Nationals has to be for everyone on the same week a lot of possibilities open up.

Nationals for Juniors and Adults / Seniors should be separate events held on different dates.

Juniors should be earlier - prior to Aug 1st so as not to conflict with school (and required practice for school sports).

Adults / Seniors can be held anytime anywhere.

This makes the events both smaller (i.e., not a 5+ day event) and larger (more participation from target audience) and thus easier to operate.

Once my kids got to Jr. High the ability to stay in the tournament scene became a real challenge because of competition from XC, soccer and football.

If you're not practicing with the team in August, you're forfeiting an opportunity to play with your friends during the fall.

With skiing being primarily a solitary sport with dad and ski season basically done by the end of September - there's really no choice for 7th grade kids - they want to be on a team with their friends at school rather than take a solitary hour long drive with dad to the lake.

If you want to increase youth participation at Nationals, make it earlier.

 

[BKistler]

@Jody_Seal Good points. I like the idea of putting more emphasis on state championships. 
 

Don’t care what the boat companies think. 

[skigirl]

@Jody_Seal mentioned possible multiple rounds.  If Nationals was split to different tournaments for adults and juniors would that open the possibility to maybe 2 rounds, a championship and consolation?  I think travel to a large tournament may have more appeal if you get to ski twice.  Of course I am thinking for the slalom only folks, likely not as much of an appeal for overall skiers.

Also for timing, it should consider not conflicting with show ski state championships and the national championship.  In the Midwest a lot of kids ski on show teams too and that is a big deal.
 

Edited September 6 by skigirl
typo

[Than_Bogan]

Back when I actually did Nationals, I always thought it was BIZARRE that it was in the middle of the season.  September would have made way more sense.  Even earlier would just be goofy.

I do appreciate the need to work with school calendars, but those seem all over the map so maybe actually NOT worth overly accommodating?

I won't be attending in the future anyhow, but just sharing my past experience.

[Horton]

58 minutes ago, Jody_Seal said:

get the regional mandate out of the formula and put the national qualification emphasis onto a state championship requirement. In regions where some states do not have a state tournament available a regional club may provide a competitive platform where seeding values are increased for national participation due the championship and competition aspect. but drop the mandate for regional participation as a required for national participation. putting the pre national qualification requirement at state level also helps with the double major travel expense for skiers and skiers family's. 

I have long advocated something to this effect. 

Not all states have enough skiers for a State title to be a big enough event. Certainly, California, Florida, and Texas could have a State Titles that would be almost as big as a Regionals.  States like New Mexico might have to team up with another state or two for a mini-regionals. Some thought and re-organization would be needed but it is not Rocket Surgery. It does seem silly that skiers in South Florida were asked to travel more than 1,000 miles to Paducah Ky for regionals this year. Skiers from Seattle had to travel 1,200 miles to Newberry this year for regionals.

There was a time.... a long time ago... when the culture of this country was different and the demographics of our sport were different  when a 1,000 mile road trip seemed less crazy but times have changed. 

[Hallpass]

3 hours ago, buechsr said:

All valid.

But is requiring kids to miss almost a whole week of their first week (or weeks) of school not just as problematic?

@buechsr  Short answer:  Probably depends on the kid.

It was never a problem for mine.  She only missed first week of school one time, and that was not for skiing.  She has missed a week at a time, many times through grade school, middle, and three years of high school.  No problem.  She can, and always did, make up school work.  Kids miss a week of school when sick, many times.  Usually not the end of the world.   However,  I don't think many kids could prepare and be competitive at Nationals on just 3-5 weeks training.

In our area, most of the schools who begin in Mid August get a week off in October.  Others mentioned that as a good time for Nationals.  That would be probably be optimal in our situation.  (Note, my daughter does not get that Oct week off , so we would still be pulling her from school.)

Next year she will go to college, so I can jump into that side of the conversation 🙂

[rawly]

Good luck with securing a site on Labor Day when most of the members are recreational skiers like the one I’m at. Would have to be a place where tournament skiers make up a large percentage of the owners. Or a public park that has 3 or more lakes 🤣. You Okee’s have it made. 

[bkreis]

personally, the location is key....have to e able tp fly or drive and be near a city w stuff to do/explore, eat, etc...

[NZskier]

If the goal is to attract college kids the dates are the least of your worries. At $175 and $155 a pop for an up and back in tricks the price to enter Nationals and Regionals is exorbitant and is a much bigger barrier. NCWSA Western Regionals is $30 for a 3-event score and has had close to 200 entries the past two years at the same site. Only 4 of those skiers competed at AWSA Nationals this year. That's a whole different thread though.

At least in California most colleges are on the quarter system and don't start until late September. The two biggest teams out West (SDSU & ASU) are the exception, however, and start in late August. So you would lose them.

[Horton]

@NZskier Making skiing more economical for recent grads is perhaps the biggest missed opportunity for USAWS but that is certainly another thread.  The question at hand is about scheduling. 

 

---

I would like to hear more from this crowd. I am a little surprised. 

[Luv2Ski]

The reason I think earlier would be worse is because the tournament season doesn't even really get started until late May or early June.  At least that's the case here in Central TX.  There is so much packed into June and July that having nationals any earlier than it already has been historically would feel way too rushed. 

[EricW]

Figure out how to start schools after labor day so Nationals can be later Aug.... (FWIW my kids started mid august and have already had 2 half days and 2 full days off) probably why the need to start earlier each year

[RichardDoane]

+1 on @Luv2Ski 's comment about the weather, The PNW is grey and cold through May and sometimes June.  It's a thing that summer doesn't start in Seattle until after July 4th

[RAWSki]

7 hours ago, RichardDoane said:

+1 on @Luv2Ski 'sIt's a thing that summer doesn't start in Seattle until after July 4th

I thought that was a Michigan line!

[Luv2Ski]

I do love the idea of having 2 separate nationals.  One for juniors and one for older divisions.  My kid just moved into mens one and out of the junior divisions, but the issue we have historically had is that as a junior, he would ski early in the week and I would ski at the end (being in W4) That would make for a really long and expensive week for us!  We have done it, but it has always dragged on too long and been tough to manage.  If it was split into 2 different tournaments at two different times it would be a more pleasant (briefer) experience and easier to attend not having to miss an entire week of school, work, etc... 

[Horton]

@Luv2Ski

I don't really understand how that's better. Two trips, two vacations, two sets of plane tickets, two rental cars, two of everything instead of one? isn't that way more expensive?

[Jody_Seal]

39 minutes ago, Horton said:

@Luv2Ski

I don't really understand how that's better. Two trips, two vacations, two sets of plane tickets, two rental cars, two of everything instead of one? isn't that way more expensive?

 

The system was invented when it was economical to load up the family wagon and go to regional s, then if you were qualified you went on to the nationals. most skiers and family's in the day had campers or tents. it was a more outdoor style of tournament. gas was real cheap!!------Fast forward, Same system but compounded with over the top policy's and rules. social atmosphere as well as unneeded costly technology and encumbered with leadership individuals that are not really interested in providing a economic direction for their membership or sport.

the exodus continues!

 

 

[Turn6]

On 9/6/2024 at 1:49 PM, Jody_Seal said:

Taking some ideology from another thread on BOS, the thousand cuts..

 A Big issue with the sport is there is really no enthusiasm in direction. no energy, current  direction really does not mean anything.  real competition in the sport only happens at the nationals for most awsa dedicated skiers. the weekend general tournament has basically no other mission then Rankings score. there is the pro tour for the open level athletes and that is a promising direction for the sport. however there are no more real competition tournaments for the amateur skiers as well as no stepping stone events as well as destination events.   List of events that used to have competitive meaning. Superstars, Lakeland open,Sr. Masters. even the regional s were considered a competitive stepping stone to a national title. Team Trials! No incentive events in today;s sport other then score or back yard world record.

I dont think for many skiers and family's it is so much as when but how will a date change enhance enthusiasm and improve the sport? i know this has been discussed at the directors level many times and solutions seem to be continue with 1959 thinking..

ideas:

get the regional mandate out of the formula and put the national qualification emphasis onto a state championship requirement. In regions where some states do not have a state tournament available a regional club may provide a competitive platform where seeding values are increased for national participation due the championship and competition aspect. but drop the mandate for regional participation as a required for national participation. putting the pre national qualification requirement at state level also helps with the double major travel expense for skiers and skiers family's. 

Like it or not it may be time to incorporate two separate national championships. A Junior or under 21 nationals and a general Adult National championships.  Most other sports do not mix their national juniors with adult competition. Time frame for junior skiers to compete in a stand alone jr national championship on a late July date takes care of the need to get it done before school starts. having a true junior nationals also opens the door for multi round competition and maybe even increased participation with the emphasis on a stand alone jr event.

 

    That is another. Which way does the sport want to go? now a day's boat company's could care less if membership sells boats for them, I am sure the boat manufacturer's would prefer a bloated festival over a shortened competitive event.

 

No amount of date changes for nationals is going to be beneficial until this organization re events themselves and puts back a more economical platform for competition for the average joe skier..

Jody, totally agree on eliminating Regionals! 

[ScarletArrow]

On 9/11/2024 at 10:49 AM, Horton said:

@Luv2Ski

I don't really understand how that's better. Two trips, two vacations, two sets of plane tickets, two rental cars, two of everything instead of one? isn't that way more expensive?

The assumption in your question is that parents and children will normally be co-participants.  When that is the case, then yes, of course it more convenient and economical to have a consolidated nationals. 

But growing the sport may mean we need to redefine what our target audience looks like - e.g., children who have qualified for nationals with parents who have not (or don't ski or don't want to ski in a tournament).

Waterskiing seems to be the only sport I know of that has this expectation of dual-participation at a regional and national level.  Why?

I don't know for sure, but I would think if you went to Taekwondo nationals you wouldn't see a B2 match immediately followed by W4.

I think separating the tournament is better because it makes the tournament focused (more participants from a target audience), smaller (need fewer days away), simpler (less demand for volunteers), and more valuable (could accommodate multiple rounds).

You could also tailor the vibe (food, music, extracurricular activities, sponsors) of the tournament to the demographic.

[Horton]

@ScarletArrow , I would be curious to know what percentage of kids who ski nationals are the children of national skiers. 

My guess is that close to 90% of the kids who ski nationals have parents who are also national skiers. @LLUSA Does this data exist?

[ScarletArrow]

20 hours ago, Horton said:

@ScarletArrow , I would be curious to know what percentage of kids who ski nationals are the children of national skiers. 

My guess is that close to 90% of the kids who ski nationals have parents who are also national skiers. @LLUSA Does this data exist?

I have no doubt that is true.

I guess my point / question is that a limitation or benefit?

The underlying point of the OP is increasing participation at Nationals.

The very fact that we keep asking questions about how to increase participation says we're not satisfied with the status quo - i.e., lower than the past and lower compared to other similar organizations.

I feel like we sort of nibble at the edges by tweaking this or that rule / date / etc., in hopes that the accumulation of minor changes will create dramatically different results.

I get it, established bureaucracies are risk adverse, and change is always perceived as risk.

I agree with many of your (festival vs. elite) and @Jody_Seal (rankings vs. competition) thoughts and ideas.

My intention is to press into the idea of the extent of change - to grow nationals (or the sport), we have to stop nibbling and create a paradigm shift.

I think it's fair to ask, if so many other sports don't have a consolidated nationals, then why to do we?

As an aside, this is a recent book I've read and began applying at work: Leading Change and I think it's relevant for our organization.

[JohnN]

Regarding the scheduling of nationals, for northern skiers having it nearer the end of the season, in mid Sept or Oct, just makes more sense, particularly when school has started regardless of the date. From a performance perspective it's much easier to maintain at the end of the season than it is to get back to optimal performance at the start of the season. Pushing nationals two weeks earlier wouldn't be a good thing.

[jcamp]

On 9/5/2024 at 9:39 PM, Horton said:

As long as I can remember nationals have been held in late August.

When has Nationals been held in "late" August? For the past 10-15 years plus it's around the Aug. 8-11 to 13-15 timeframe. This year it was a week later at the request of the LOC. Look at the scorebooks, which have a date/time when there were finalized. 

[Horton]

@jcamp Yeah I miss spoke 

[Leeboy3]

On 9/6/2024 at 8:02 PM, Horton said:

@NZskier Making skiing more economical for recent grads is perhaps the biggest missed opportunity for USAWS but that is certainly another thread.  The question at hand is about scheduling. 

 

---

I would like to hear more from this crowd. I am a little surprised. 

FROM the MIDWEST REGION (MI).  Unless you are from FL, Arizona, TX, or CA, most of us are traveling as soon as possible to get back in the tournament groove by March and April already.  My son has finished 3rd the last two years at Nationals and he is skiing in Midwest as long as possible certainly into Sept deep,   Then at least a week in FL the months of Oct, and Nov just to stay in the groove.  Traveling to FL in March, April, May again one week a month just to get the groove back, by June we pray for consistent enough weather to and, still traveling to a Western or Southern tournament to get a shot a a great score, all the while back in the Midwest skiing almost every day but yet not be making a bunch of feeble attempts at improving buoy counts when it can still be cold   WE are in MI, I can't imagine that it is not worse for WI, MN, Northern IL, and most of the entire EAST Region.   WE are lucky, we have plenty of $$ to travel and do this, not everyone does.  Even in the Southern Region (states like KY, TN, AL, and GA) regardless of what some may think are  getting very few shots at any meaningful tournaments let alone consistent temperatures especially in KY and TN.  So to move Nationals up is really a disadvantage for about 80% of the country.  Now regarding travel.  2 years ago we traveled 1000 miles to Wichita for Regionals, and last year we traveled 700 miles to MN for Regionals.  This is on top of all the travel to stay in the ski in warm areas.

[balls]

In Northern California our tournaments start in June.

Moving Nationals earlier than it currently is, would be a huge mistake.

I also believe it is time to consider splitting the 35+ divisions off to a separate event