Bindings for wide foot and/or high arch support

[Ufda]

I've been skiing in Wiley's pro series double-boots all my life, and have been happy with them.

But I've developed pain in my foot, from pressure on the bone that sticks out of the outside in the middle of the foot (it's the end of the little toe bone); the doctor said basically I'm getting old (mid 40s; sigh), my foot is getting wider, and the treatment is either wider shoes or higher arch support. 

Right now, my foot hurts a bit, and starts to cramp, after about 4-5 passes through the course.

Any advice on bindings that are either wider in the mid-foot, or adding something like running shoe footbeds into my bindings?

It's only my rear (right) foot; front foot doesn't have the same issue/pain.

Wiley's makes a wide binding, but it'll take 3-4 weeks to get one (backlog of orders right now).

Anything else I should consider or try? I had half a thought about RTP, but I've never skied with one, and I'm not sure if it would grip the same problem area or not.

[skibrain]

The fore-foot portion of D3 T-factor bindings can be adjusted for width. 

[vtmecheng]

I'm at the age that I need a bit of additional arch support for my front (right) foot or I get pain near where you mentioned. I use a Radar Vapor boot that has some arch support molded in but need a hair more for comfort. To add some arch support, I got a $1 sheet of adhesive backed EVA foam from a craft store and cut out the arch support shape (basically a half moon) to stick on the boot footbed. That did the trick for me and I'm comfortable for however long the rest of my body can last to ski. Only trick you may have is that your boot has no arch support so you may need a few layers of foam stacked in incrementally decreasing size to mimic a traditional arch support and you need to make sure that your foot still comes out easily after whatever mod is done.

[lkb]

1 hour ago, skibrain said:

The fore-foot portion of D3 T-factor bindings can be adjusted for width. 

Try a tfactor. They rock. 

[Oldkier]

I have 12 eeee and a reflex r-style works great for me. I did switch from double hardshell with no issues.

[rawly]

The Radar Vapors are very very comfortable. They are worth every penny spent on them. The new ones have a nice arch support in them. They are as comfortable as any pair of shoes that I’ve ever worn and the boa laces allow you to get the exact fit that you want. My buddy was complaining about his toes hurting in a competitors hard shell today 🤣 Good luck with your issues. 

[Stevie Boy]

Size 8 UK / 9 US , Wide Foot, High Arch, Never been able to get a Reflex Boot to Fit always had to go bigger, which meant that my toes were way back from the front of boot.

However the Tfactor works so well for me, so no longer a issue.

I noticed at San Gervaisio, that Cory Vaughan has moved from Hard Shell to Rubber, looked a bit like a Tfactor, over heard a bit of conversation on the dock where he said that he thinks that he prefers it.

[vtmecheng]

I know many really like the Tfactor and feel they come out of it safe enough. Personally, I broke my ankle in a binding nearly identical to the Tfactor. Pros like Corey Vaughn don't select the Tfactor for safety or comfort (though I know it is more comfortable than most). They select it because they feel it gives a performance gain. I won't put words into Corey's mouth so feel free to reach out to him on here, text, or email and he will be happy to provide his thoughts on the Tfactor and if he recommends it. I do caution anyone to pick a setup based on the pros because they definitely have a different priority order than most of us common folk.

On the recommendation, I think that @Ufda is trying to get something together quickly since ordering a new binding will take time and mean less skiing. If so, I'd recommend either adding a piece of foam at the arch or you can buy an adhesive arch support from Amazon or some stores so that you can get back to skiing normal sets now.

[skibrain]

@vtmecheng weird post. Sorry for your injury. Why not just name a binding company and model with which you actually have experience?   I’m no pro and I’ve used T-factors for 10 yrs, as do 5 guys I regularly ski with.
 

None are named Cory or Nate. 

[vtmecheng]

11 minutes ago, skibrain said:

@vtmecheng weird post. Sorry for your injury. Why not just name a binding company and model with which you actually have experience?   I’m no pro and I’ve used T-factors for 10 yrs, as do 5 guys I regularly ski with.
 

None are named Cory or Nate. 

I did name the binding that I use and a recommendation. My post was in response to @Stevie Boy (I should have quoted his post) where he points to Corey Vaughn using the TFactor as a reason to buy it. I've spoken with Corey about using Tfactors, know what he told me, and he recommended the Vapor with Reflex release. Point being, I recommend taking the unique opportunity that we have in water skiing to personally talk with the pro(s) about their choice and what they would recommend instead of assuming. I'm giving my opinion just like someone who suggests the Tfactor. What someone uses for a binding has zero impact on me so I don't get worked up over what other's here ultimately select.

[lkb]

@vtmecheng at risk of going off topic, but it’s probably important to clarify that the tfactor is safe, at least as far as I can tell. Anyway what were the circumstances of your injury? I’ve not been using tfactor for very long but what I see is if it fits right and you don’t tighten the laces tighter than your risk tolerance allows, then it will release as expected  in an out the front      

[Ufda]

Thanks for all the input everyone!

 

I'll probably try to fabricate some arch support to put in my current binding immediately, and then see if I can try on a T-factor to see how that feels. I see that D3's office is less than an hour from me (I'm in Seattle), so maybe they have one I can try on in person there, or maybe Seattle Watersports.

[vtmecheng]

@lkb for me it was an OTF that resulted in my foot coming half way out. I have since learned that every foot is different and mine does not come out of many bindings easily so I go with a release setup. Up to everyone to decide their comfort level with their setup. I do find my current Vapor boot to be real comfortable, especially after I heat molded the liner and added a touch of extra arch support.

[Stevie Boy]

@vtmecheng probably my wording but, I  was not trying to use Cory Vaughan as a reason for going to a Tfactor, I  could of easily quoted Nate,  No Binding is completely safe, this has been stated in many threads on this forum, it,s down to the individual and what you are comfortable with, a ski buddy has just done his achilles tendon on a hard shell that he has skied on for sometime, really unfortunate, our sport does carry risks, this is clearly marked on equipment when you purchase it.

Skiers modify equipment for various reasons, all the time, but you have to accept you are changing the design.

I  do not know the answer, but if you add arch support to the foot bed for whatever reason, if you tighten the binding too much, would your foot have to overcome the arch support before releasing. ?

 

 

[OldboyII]

After several succesfull releases from TFactor, last release hurted (10 days on crutches) my achilles tendon. Now boot is on a place of honor in the pet cemetery ))

Just as temporary solution for rehab period, bought Radar Pulse and decided to stay with it (PB up)

[vtmecheng]

8 hours ago, Stevie Boy said:

@vtmecheng probably my wording but, I  was not trying to use Cory Vaughan as a reason for going to a Tfactor, I  could of easily quoted Nate,  No Binding is completely safe, this has been stated in many threads on this forum, it,s down to the individual and what you are comfortable with, a ski buddy has just done his achilles tendon on a hard shell that he has skied on for sometime, really unfortunate, our sport does carry risks, this is clearly marked on equipment when you purchase it.

Skiers modify equipment for various reasons, all the time, but you have to accept you are changing the design.

I  do not know the answer, but if you add arch support to the foot bed for whatever reason, if you tighten the binding too much, would your foot have to overcome the arch support before releasing. ?

 

 

I am definitely not arguing that there are dangers in skiing, just as in any higher speed sport. I also agreed that this is a dangerous sport and it's up to the skier to decide what they want.  I don't understand why some here get so fired up over other's decisions on bindings (not saying you are, just that others on BOS have), it doesn't impact anyone else. Someone wants to try Tfactors or even a single hard shell without release, go for it. If someone asks if that hard shell setup is smart, I'll tell them it isn't what I would use due to safety.

Definitely agree that any modification should be followed up with the user making sure that things are still to their level of safety. I did recommend that the poster needs to make sure release is still okay with any added arch support. Ultimately, we have to use the thing between our ears before saying hit it.

 

On a recommendation for @Ufda, I personally find the Radar Vapor boot comfortable after a few sets or heating the liner (which I did). Paring with the reflex release allows you to make it tighter and lets you add all the arch support you need without worrying about release. Just my opinion and every foot is different so what works for me may be horrible for you.

[Stevie Boy]

@vtmecheng Agreed !

[ToddK]

@Ufda I agree with @vtmecheng comments on the Vapor boot.

If it was me I would have Seattle Watersports (Wiley's new ownership) heat mold a Vapor with the Reflex release. Or if I wanted to take it to another level of custom fit, I would go to Sturtevant's in Bellevue and have Auto Gibbons in the boot department mold them and he can create extra space where you need it just like they do for snow ski boots. 

If you still need more arch support I would see if Seattle Watersports/Wiley's has any of the foot beds from the last generation of Vapor boots. It's been a few years but Kyle at Wiley's hooked me up with a few pairs. I have an extra pair that fits a size 10 Vapor that I could send you if you want to try them and can't find a pair. 

[Ufda]

I went in to Seattle Watersports and tried some things on today. The Radar Vector pushed on the spot that hurts, so that was out. They didn't have any D3 bindings. I wanted to try an XL Wide Wiley binding, but they have to make more (2-3 week wait).

I tried on the Vapor, and that was relatively comfortable (although expensive). I'm guessing if it is heat fitted it would be quite comfortable. It looked like they came on a fixed plate, not with a reflex release. Do those types of boots work without a reflex release? It seems like it may be difficult for a foot to come out of them. Are they normally setup with reflex release, or is it common to just attach them to the ski like traditional bindings? This is my first time trying any non-wiley bindings.

The other binding that was comfortable was an HO XMax binding. It was wide enough in the part of my foot that hurts, and was by far the most comfortable thing I tried on. But for unknown reasons, the plate holes don't quite match up with my ski (2020, or possibly 2019, radar senate). Me and the guy at Seattle Watersports were both puzzled by that. The front and rear holes just never lined up at the same time. He said he could bend the screw slots in the plate a bit to make it fit if I wanted. I'm still thinking about it. 

[OldboyII]

7 hours ago, Ufda said:

It seems like it may be difficult for a foot to come out of them. Are they normally setup with reflex release, or is it common to just attach them to the ski like traditional bindings?

Curently using Radar Pulse which is lower version of Vapor (same construction and same type of release). The key to release is not overtightening upper laces. My personal livehack  - add some soap between boot and back of  inner liner - in the case of accident foot in liner goes out of the boot as fast as sparrow from the nest ))) It will work for Vapor in standard setup (w/o reflex) as well.

[vtmecheng]

12 hours ago, Ufda said:

I tried on the Vapor, and that was relatively comfortable (although expensive). I'm guessing if it is heat fitted it would be quite comfortable. It looked like they came on a fixed plate, not with a reflex release. Do those types of boots work without a reflex release? It seems like it may be difficult for a foot to come out of them. Are they normally setup with reflex release, or is it common to just attach them to the ski like traditional bindings? This is my first time trying any non-wiley bindings.

 

On 4/7/2023 at 4:53 PM, Horton said:

@b_s I would not define these boots as ones that your foot would come out of in a fall. Some may disagree. I see these boots as true hardshells. 

 

[lkb]

14 hours ago, Ufda said:

I tried on the Vapor, and that was relatively comfortable (although expensive). I'm guessing if it is heat fitted it would be quite comfortable. It looked like they came on a fixed plate, not with a reflex release. Do those types of boots work without a reflex release? It seems like it may be difficult for a foot to come out of them. Are they normally setup with reflex release, or is it common to just attach them to the ski like traditional bindings? This is my first time trying any non-wiley bindings.

 

The vapor is the most comfortable I’ve ever skied in. When it’s on the fixed plate it will release by the liner slipping out. That working properly is dependent on how tight you cinch it down especially the cuff. Too tight and it won’t release. 
It does take some trial and error figuring out how tight to go with it. During that process you could probably get an unwanted non-release and maybe an unwanted release. It does work though. Skied it for 2 seasons with no injury. 

[Ufda]

I decided to go with the vapor boots. Had them heat-fitted this morning. Excited to ski on them this weekend! Thanks for all the advice everyone!