Inflation question about Wally Sinker

[swbca]

There is all stainless cable course on our lake that is only on the surface a few days per summer.  Currently the owner of this vacation home connects and disconnects all the to buoys to sink/float the course when he is visiting this home.  He has a marker sub-buoy at one end to pull the course up to connect the buoys.

The owner with help and $ from a few other skiers have agreed to add the Wally Sinker to this course so it can be used whenever conditions permit by a small number contributing families.

Is the 12 volt pump in your boat connected to the inflation pipe in open water practical,  Wind?  Time to Inflate ?  Safe from other boat traffic ?

Another skier friend has had a submersible course on his lake for decades based on aluminum booms containing rubber hose for floatation bladders.  He uses a compressor on shore with 600 feet of anchored rigid PEX pipe from shore to the 45m gates, plus running the length of the course.  Any input on the inflation arrangement ?  or other tips ?

    

 

[thager]

My experience is with an Accusink  course the last 22 years but a Wally Sinker course and a portable 12V compressor (Walmart) powered by the boat should work just fine as they are similar. Looking at about 20min to bring it up to the surface. Can cut that to 10- 12 min using a portable 9 gal compressed air tank first. 

[Beaverskier]

We have had a wally sinker on our lake for over 10 years.  Works pretty good. Takes about 7.5 to 9.5 mins to inflate with the 12volt pump on the boat.  Our fill feed line is between #2 and #3 boat guides.  Water deep goes from 8’ on one side to 13’ on the other side.  We really haven’t had trouble with other boats on the lake when the system is sunk

[BraceMaker]

Wally is different than an accusink in that you can pull a vacuum on the system and suck water back out. You can raise them with regulated air pressure from nearly any source you wanted but ideally you'd also be set up to vacuum the air back out which helps to sink the course quickly but also dewaters the system which was one of accusinks flaws you could have pressure close to exploding in the system and half of it could be on the bottom because it was full of water.  In the wally system the float bladders can be sucked flat so that most of the water is out then when inflated those bladders will float.

If money no object, close enough to shore, and you have shore power I would look into a rotary vane pump with a chamber to separate water out (10" PVC x 3 or 4' long caps on both ends with the pump connected to the top and a drain valve) with that set up you'd be able to float/sink the system in about 2 minutes either way. https://www.grainger.com/product/4F740?gucid=N:N:PS:Paid:GGL:CSM-2295:4P7A1P:20501231&gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjw7ZO0BhDYARIsAFttkCg5H09NGeGCTiHIIxPpaAfVVhNT0Sg1w3o8Rj6-pHfGEfn_8SryO4caAs6aEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

These pumps are very commonly used to aerate ponds and both pull vacuum and push out air pressure couple ball valves, barbed fittings, hose and clamps and you can turn on the pump and open a valve one way to sink, flip the other way to float.

[swbca]

@Beaverskier  Questions about use Wally Sinker pump

How to you find the connection - is it marked with a surface bouy ?    On our lake anything on the surface for any length of time will be run over by boats.

If you have a breeze when filling or un-filling the bladders,  do you have to anchor your boat ?

 

@BraceMaker  I am still tempted to pursue using a compressor on shore with a garage door opener control for every user.  This requries some programmed logic, precision pressure sensors etc....The guy I am skiing with today has had that for 20 years on is submercible course. 

[2Valve]

On 7/3/2024 at 7:49 AM, swbca said:

There is all stainless cable course on our lake that is only on the surface a few days per summer.  Currently the owner of this vacation home connects and disconnects all the to buoys to sink/float the course when he is visiting this home.  He has a marker sub-buoy at one end to pull the course up to connect the buoys.

The owner with help and $ from a few other skiers have agreed to add the Wally Sinker to this course so it can be used whenever conditions permit by a small number contributing families.

Is the 12 volt pump in your boat connected to the inflation pipe in open water practical,  Wind?  Time to Inflate ?  Safe from other boat traffic ?

Another skier friend has had a submersible course on his lake for decades based on aluminum booms containing rubber hose for floatation bladders.  He uses a compressor on shore with 600 feet of anchored rigid PEX pipe from shore to the 45m gates, plus running the length of the course.  Any input on the inflation arrangement ?  or other tips ?

    

 

About 7-10 min. to inflate using the Wally pump.

[swbca]

8 minutes ago, 2Valve said:

About 7-10 min. to inflate using the Wally pump.

How do find the connection to connect the pump ?   I didn't mention the sheriff says we can't have a surface buoy to mark anything overnight.

Edited July 15 by swbca

[2Valve]

2 minutes ago, swbca said:

How do find the connection to connect the pump ?   I didn't mention the sheriff says we can't have a surface buoy to mark anything overnight.

So we have the air line about mid-course with about six feet of free line. We tied that to a duck decoy anchor (about a pound in weight) and that pulls it down when not in use. 
We have the location marked with GPS, so when we go out, we just get near the sight and drag with one of those light anchors with all the tines on it. The water is too murky to see it so we have to drag for it.
We have a light rope tied to the course, and tied to the air line. At the end of that light rope, we have a knot that we loop over the back of the bar over the swim platform, to hold the boat in place while we run the compressor.

 

[BraceMaker]

25 minutes ago, swbca said:

How do find the connection to connect the pump ?   I didn't mention the sheriff says we can't have a surface buoy to mark anything overnight.

Can you have a surface mooring bouy off the end of a dock or a swim platform?  If you take a swim platform and run 2 anchors so it doesn't spin that's ideal because you can tie up and power the pump from a boat and just store that in a dock box/battery box.  

If you do want shore power remote access don't make your life so hard set up a google home account on a new email account like "SWBCASkiClub@gmail.com" then register a smart outlet to that account and "share" access to people you want to be able to use it.  Use that outlet to power a light to indicate its "on" and a solenoid to release air pressure down the line to inflate it.  Use a regulator to sort how much pressure its allowed to have that doesn't need to be smart at all.  

You could wire up a transformer and use low voltage air compressor solenoids and unloader valves to run the whole system.  Any user opens google home turns the smart outlet on and the course rises.  Turn the outlet off and the solenoid closes and the unloader valve pops letting the air back out.  Manually periodically dewater it with a vacuum pump.

[Beaverskier]

13 hours ago, swbca said:

@Beaverskier  Questions about use Wally Sinker pump

How to you find the connection - is it marked with a surface bouy ?    On our lake anything on the surface for any length of time will be run over by boats.

If you have a breeze when filling or un-filling the bladders,  do you have to anchor your boat ?

 

@BraceMaker  I am still tempted to pursue using a compressor on shore with a garage door opener control for every user.  This requries some programmed logic, precision pressure sensors etc....The guy I am skiing with today has had that for 20 years on is submercible course. 

We also have an about a 6’ feed line mid course. We secured a couple of feet of chain to it to make sure it sinks when running the course. 
 

To find it we use markers on the shore line. One side a dock and the other a shed and drag a hook with the boat pointed between them perpendicular to the course.  It usually puts us within 10’ feed of the feed line then we just pull ourselves over to the feed line. Our lake is also to murky to see the course when down. 

[BrennanKMN]

What @BraceMaker describes is exactly what I have seen/used. A shared Belkin WeMo account (or any other smart outlet) to power the system on and fill the course air lines from shore. Upon power off it releases pressure and the course sinks. 

We'd hit the button on our phone walking to the dock, and by the time you have the boat down and gear on the course was ready. 

If you want to get fancy, it wouldn't be hard to use some Belimo valves to create a venturi effect on the course and 'suck' the air/water back out after use as well. 

[markn]

Had an Accu-sink course for years.  We hid the fill line by a cypress tree stump as it was a remote site.  To inflate, my ski partner and I both kept a scuba tank under the bow.  With an old regulator, the first stage reduced pressure to about 110 psi.  Then we would use a simple gate valve to regulate pressure using an inline gauge.   Took about 5 minutes to raise the course.  Worked great and an 80 cu. ft. tank at 3000 psi would last a long time.  Good luck.

[swbca]

23 hours ago, BraceMaker said:

If you do want shore power remote access don't make your life so hard set up a google home account on a new email account like "SWBCASkiClub@gmail.com" then register a smart outlet to that account and "share" access to people you want to be able to use it.  Use that outlet to power a light to indicate its "on" and a solenoid to release air pressure down the line to inflate it.  Use a regulator to sort how much pressure its allowed to have that doesn't need to be smart at all.  

You could wire up a transformer and use low voltage air compressor solenoids and unloader valves to run the whole system.  Any user opens google home turns the smart outlet on and the course rises.  Turn the outlet off and the solenoid closes and the unloader valve pops letting the air back out.  Manually periodically dewater it with a vacuum pump.

I considered using a phone to control it but I tend to trust the simple radio controlled momentary contact closure garage door control.  The phone control smart switch is likely to have saved credentials, so someone or his child could accidentally raise the course while tinkering with their phone from anywhere.   I used a common garage remote on my submersible course for decades.  Surprising that it had nearly 1/2 mile range on the lake. 

An advantage with the phone control smart switch showing ON/OFF (up/down) status,  I could start raising the course (if its down) so it would be ready when I arrived on the ski site.

 

Edited July 16 by swbca

[BraceMaker]

All good considerations.  Although I've had zero issues in years with accidentally turning on lights or switches and have come to full embrace them for certain purposes like I can tell you right now that the garage doors at the lake are shut and one has been closed for 2 days the other for 3, my house has been closed since my wife left an hour and a half ago and the temperature in the lake house is 74 degrees and that since I have a smart plug in the same outlet as my sump pump that I have power to the sump pump pit.

An issue with the garage clicker beyond how long for it to come up which is fine you probably need to get your skis on and put stuff away in the boat but how long do you wait to make sure its going down after you push the button.  My garage clicker works from a surprising distance typically but every so often it gets me I'm in such a habit that I'm backing up to the garage before I realize it didn't open.  So done skiing hit the button and wait how long before you know its actually sinking.

So for ~75 bucks you get a 24V transformer and a NC solenoid https://www.grainger.com/product/4ELC5?gucid=N:N:PS:Paid:GGL:CSM-2295:4P7A1P:20501231&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjwtNi0BhA1EiwAWZaANLNQptv2IFIphWSY_gXsn49yOc_v_t1YXbQl2Fy3eJeI-5990bj3QxoCcqEQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

Wire the transformer to a smart switch and you're in business so long as you have an air compressor.

Most real air compressors use a transformer anyway in the control circuit so in theory you could also have the same thing power up the air compressor so its not sitting charged all the time.

 

 

[Bdecker]

I used Wally’s bigger pump mounted to shore.  Mine was a used system and candidly I never got it right.  Up was 10ish minutes but down could be an hour plus.  We had a big line to shore, so perhaps that introduced too much distance.  Eventually we were accused of ruining the best fishing on the lake and removed the course… not a single fisherman since btw!!!

[rq0013]

What is everyone using to cap off the fill line when not in use?
 

I was thinking about running 800ft of hose to my dock to fill from there, but if many are sinking their fill lines at the course, I may try that method. 

[swbca]

20 hours ago, BrennanKMN said:

What @BraceMaker describes is exactly what I have seen/used. A shared Belkin WeMo account (or any other smart outlet) to power the system on and fill the course air lines from shore. Upon power off it releases pressure and the course sinks. 

We'd hit the button on our phone walking to the dock, and by the time you have the boat down and gear on the course was ready. 

If you want to get fancy, it wouldn't be hard to use some Belimo valves to create a venturi effect on the course and 'suck' the air/water back out after use as well. 

Sounds good,     Was yours A Wally course or something else ?