Baller Stevie Boy Posted September 8, 2023 Baller Share Posted September 8, 2023 Can anybody enlighten me on the differences between Zero Off Tournament mode and Recreational mode, especially what the boat is doing on the setup and gate shot ? Thankyou Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller LeonL Posted September 8, 2023 Baller Share Posted September 8, 2023 Somebody may say I'm wrong, but it seems the same to me, except speed of course. (The only reason to be in rec mode) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Stevie Boy Posted September 8, 2023 Author Baller Share Posted September 8, 2023 I ask because we have a short setup, the new boat struggles to get to 36mph probably half a boat length before pre gates, I drive. 35-38 off skier he is struggling to get the feel he is looking for, but said it feels better in recreational mode, he skis at another lake, different water and longer setup with no issues, he was quite happy until we got the new boat, I drive him the way I have always driven him, but just lately he showing signs of frustration, not being able to work it out. Not sure if the boat can be remapped, remembering we run gas injected LPG in the UK . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Shell Posted September 8, 2023 Baller Share Posted September 8, 2023 Recreational mode is for training, you can move the speed up and down in small increments . To my knowledge, there should be zero difference on set up and at the gates Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Ali Posted September 8, 2023 Baller Share Posted September 8, 2023 41 minutes ago, Stevie Boy said: I ask because we have a short setup, the new boat struggles to get to 36mph probably half a boat length before pre gates, I drive. 35-38 off skier he is struggling to get the feel he is looking for, but said it feels better in recreational mode, he skis at another lake, different water and longer setup with no issues, he was quite happy until we got the new boat, I drive him the way I have always driven him, but just lately he showing signs of frustration, not being able to work it out. Not sure if the boat can be remapped, remembering we run gas injected LPG in the UK . It would not hurt to remap zero off. I sometimes ski rec mode on a short set up and have not felt any difference. If it is 2 different boats that you are using then I would understand different feel as well as the water. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller JackQ Posted September 8, 2023 Baller Share Posted September 8, 2023 I use the recreation mode so I can practice a few tenths faster than actuals. I don’t feel any difference between the two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller jpwhit Posted September 8, 2023 Baller Share Posted September 8, 2023 (edited) Which boat, engine, hours, and prop? Edited September 8, 2023 by jpwhit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ lpskier Posted September 8, 2023 Baller_ Share Posted September 8, 2023 Might be a prop solution rather than a ZO solution. ZO engages when you get to speed. If you’re not getting to speed soon enough, there’s nothing ZO can do to help you. Lpskier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Stevie Boy Posted September 10, 2023 Author Baller Share Posted September 10, 2023 (edited) Boat hours 90 engine 6.0 prop the same as the other boats that we have had,. Would like to know the latest revision of Zero Off ? I am thinking rev S, would 2023 nautique ship with rev S ? Edited September 10, 2023 by Stevie Boy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller LeonL Posted September 11, 2023 Baller Share Posted September 11, 2023 Rev S is latest. I see no reason why a 2023 boat would come with over 2 year outdated software. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Kelvin Posted September 11, 2023 Baller Share Posted September 11, 2023 You would think so, but you never know for sure until you check. I had to replace my head unit long after Rev S had come out. It came with Rev R on it. It was an easy upgrade when I called them about it since I had already upgraded my old head unit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller gsm_peter Posted September 11, 2023 Baller Share Posted September 11, 2023 Could the new boat be a tad bit heavier? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Stevie Boy Posted September 11, 2023 Author Baller Share Posted September 11, 2023 To be honest, I am not sure if anything is wrong, at all, it,s just that two very good skiers are telling me that the boat seems to be gassing them in the wrong place on tournament mode but not recreational mode, which clearly does not add up if both modes react the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller LeonL Posted September 11, 2023 Baller Share Posted September 11, 2023 @Stevie Boy why don't you try mixing it up on them? Don't let them know the mode. Just doesn't make sense that there is a difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller jpwhit Posted September 11, 2023 Baller Share Posted September 11, 2023 Is it single or dual puck Zero Off. If it's dual puck, and the pucks don't have updated firmware. It will randomly do that because of the GPS Week Rollover bugs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller jpwhit Posted September 11, 2023 Baller Share Posted September 11, 2023 32 minutes ago, LeonL said: Just doesn't make sense that there is a difference. As a software developer, I can think of a lot of reasons the Tournament and Recreation mode could be different. And I've often wondered if they are different. The problem is that the only people that could give us a definitive answer are the software developers at eControls. But it's unlikely that they will answer the question. The only other way I can think to definitively answer the question would be to instrument the boat with another set of the same sensors that Zero Off is using. Which would be the same GPS pucks for speed, accelerometers, RPM sensor on the engine, and Throttle Position sensor data. Then collect data for both modes and compare it programmatically. That's an amount of work that doubt anyone will be willing to do to answer the question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller LeonL Posted September 11, 2023 Baller Share Posted September 11, 2023 There are probably lots of reasons they "could" be different, but I would think more reasons to think they're the same. It would require additional coding instead of relying on the same code already there. Just my thoughts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller liquid d Posted September 11, 2023 Baller Share Posted September 11, 2023 We drive with rec mode quite a bit in the spring to take the speed up a bit. We also have a short setup on one end. We don't notice any difference between rec and tournament mode. My guess is the boat just isn't to speed yet for the gate pullout. We pull the skier out of the hole from an extreme angle (at 38/39) with the boat close to shoreline to get that extra 40 feet or so, giving the boat a couple more boat lengths to reach speed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller dave2ball Posted September 11, 2023 Baller Share Posted September 11, 2023 Rex mode and tournament mode are the same other than Rex mode you are able to increase speed by .1 increments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller jpwhit Posted September 11, 2023 Baller Share Posted September 11, 2023 There are only a small number of standard speeds in tournament mode. So it would be easy to develop the software with key tuning parameters to be pre-defined in a table for those set speeds. And we do know there is different tuning for different boat / engine combinations baked into the Zero off software. In recreation mode, the number of speeds that can be selected is more on the order of 200 speeds. So it would be much more work to handle that with pre-set values. They would have to be calculated values. Therefore they would probably use an algorithm to calculate values for those speeds even if it weren't quite as precise. I'm not saying that's how it works. I think there is a better than not chance that it is exactly the same. My point is there are pretty plausible reasons where it would be cheaper to develop with a different approach to recreation mode. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller jjackkrash Posted September 11, 2023 Baller Share Posted September 11, 2023 (edited) Is the course mapping function and entrance-gate speed relevant in rec mode? I was under the impression it wasn't (and specific to tournament mode) but you learn something new every day. Edited September 11, 2023 by jjackkrash Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller skihart Posted September 11, 2023 Baller Share Posted September 11, 2023 Have you emailed ZO to ask them? i am curious about this as well as I ski in rec mode quite a bit to adjust at my hardest pass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Drago Posted September 12, 2023 Baller Share Posted September 12, 2023 I was under the impression rec mode was b2, but the poet in me says this was a long time ago and I have no clue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Stevie Boy Posted September 14, 2023 Author Baller Share Posted September 14, 2023 Unsolved mystery, apparently the boat feels OK now! 🙄 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller ReallyGottaSki Posted September 14, 2023 Baller Share Posted September 14, 2023 Consider hand drive a pass and if still can't reach speed in sufficient time for setup then you know its boat not the zo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller mlange Posted September 15, 2023 Baller Share Posted September 15, 2023 My questions are along the same lines as @jjackkrash Is the speed at the gate different in rec mode? Similarly, if I am open water skiing (no mapped course) is there a difference? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller ProStah_Skiah Posted September 24, 2023 Baller Share Posted September 24, 2023 @mlange I alternated a skier between 32.2 mph tournament and recreational this morning. The boat entered the course at the expected ~32.5 mph in both modes. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller mlange Posted September 25, 2023 Baller Share Posted September 25, 2023 @ProStah_Skiah That's not necessarily what I'm asking. What I'm wondering is what it will do if you run in tourney or rec mode *without* a mapped course. Think just open water skiing with ZO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Sethro Posted September 25, 2023 Baller Share Posted September 25, 2023 @mlangeWe ski all the time in rec mode because of the current on the river. Supposedly, you select your ABC setting, then go into rec mode and it'll retain that setting until it's switched again. No noticeable difference in pull I can tell. The newer, integrated ZO screen on the Malibus we ski offer "training mode" instead of rec mode, and speeds are adjustable in 0.1 mph increments and ABC settings can be changed like normal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller dave2ball Posted September 25, 2023 Baller Share Posted September 25, 2023 @mlange ZO will act or ski the same. The only difference is you can control the speed by .1 increments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller jpwhit Posted September 25, 2023 Baller Share Posted September 25, 2023 @mlange If there is no mapped course, you're not going to get a bump in speed as you enter the course and you're not going to get course and ball times. That will be the case whether you're in Rec or tournament mode. And in Rec mode you have to switch screens to see the ball times anyway. So I doubt anyone ever looks at them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller mlange Posted September 25, 2023 Baller Share Posted September 25, 2023 Thanks @jpwhit Figured there would be something different w/ the "gates" if we're skiing open water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller markn Posted September 26, 2023 Baller Share Posted September 26, 2023 Be certain to select your desired A,B,C, 1,2,3 setting in tournament mode BEFORE going to practice mode. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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