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SLALOM IS DYING and this is why.


Taynton
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Slalom is hard. It takes a person with real drive to succeed and get better at the sport. First to keep at it, 2nd to dedicate the time with early morning sets or late evening sets if you’re on public water, 3rd to invest the money for boat and equipment.   It’s not like other comparable sports. Surfing and wakeboarding have that almost instant reward for beginners, and if you don’t get better or enjoy them enough to continue you can still hang with your 10 buds on the boat enjoying the tunes, bevies and the day on the water and both are totally doable on pretty much any public lake at any time.  Readily accessible.   It’s relatively easy to sell that lifestyle.  Slalom made a good push it the early 90’s to create a sellable lifestyle with espn’s hot summer nights. But it didn’t seem to survive the test of time.  I for one really miss that enthusiasm. 
 

money is not  what’s holding the sport back.  It’s just that slalom is hard and requires more effort than most are willing to commit to. 

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If you compare trying out wakeboarding/wakesurfing for the first time with slalom skiing for the first time, it's far easier to "look cool" doing the former.  @Dano is 100% correct.  Slalom skiing is hard.  To quote Tom Hanks in a certain movie about girls and baseball, "It's supposed to be hard.  If it wasn't hard everyone would do it.  The hard... makes it great."

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On 5/13/2023 at 7:50 PM, HMan66 said:

I'll probably never be tournament skiing because 1) The guys in my bracket are running 35 off and I’m definitely not…haha!, and 2) I don’t want to miss the gate on my opener and that’s that. Thanks for your $60.  My suggestion for that would be: You get 6 passes. Your best pass is your score. That might take the pressure off new tournament skiers and entice more people to partake at the grassroots level. 

 

I organized a grassroots comp last year, 2 sets, 6 passes guaranteed. We scored two sets of scores per set, the first was traditional slalom, the second was points for each buoy and entry/exit gates (8 points available per pass). Everyone who took part loved it so even if you missed the gates on pass 1 you still got to compete

 

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16 hours ago, Horton said:

There was a thing like that called INT.... it was all ability based, everyone got a trophy and the rules were flexibly. It did for sure bring some skiers into the sport but where is it now?

Exactly. What happened to INT? 

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I can't comment on course or competitive skiing, but I have thoughts about recreational skiing at least in my small part of the world. I do think the sport is very expensive, but for arguments sake, let's say money is not a barrier. My wife and I both work part time, and live on a lake with our boat on a lift in northern Wisconsin where it's hard not to live on a lake. It doesn't get any easier for us to water ski. There are basically zero course skiing opportunities up here, but that's an entirely different issue. However, the biggest thing preventing me from skiing as much as I want is that this goofy sport always needs at least one other person to do it. No matter what, there has to be a driver. We're lucky in Wisconsin to no longer need a spotter, but in how many other states is that a requirement? So now you need one, if not two other people to go along with you.

I participate in a lot of different activities year round. Water skiing is the only one I can't do by myself. I no longer participate in team sports, but even a lot of those can be worked on by yourself (at least technique/fundamentals). I think slalom skiing is very difficult, and needs a lot of time spent doing it even to be a good free skier. I only get better when I'm behind the boat. It's very hard to do drills or work on fundamentals without being behind the boat. That's not the case with many other sports/activities. 

I guess what I'm trying to say is that it comes down to access in a certain way. Even if you are the most driven skier alive, have a brand new tournament ski boat on a private lake with a course, 24 hours of daylight with 85 degree temps, you can't do anything without a driver. And the weather/wind is another variable that really impacts this sport especially when dealing with public water. I won't even try to address the topic of other boats sharing the water. Lots of things need to align in this sport. Not so with many others. 

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36 minutes ago, tjs1295 said:

I can't comment on course or competitive skiing, but I have thoughts about recreational skiing at least in my small part of the world. I do think the sport is very expensive, but for arguments sake, let's say money is not a barrier. My wife and I both work part time, and live on a lake with our boat on a lift in northern Wisconsin where it's hard not to live on a lake. It doesn't get any easier for us to water ski. There are basically zero course skiing opportunities up here, but that's an entirely different issue. However, the biggest thing preventing me from skiing as much as I want is that this goofy sport always needs at least one other person to do it. No matter what, there has to be a driver. We're lucky in Wisconsin to no longer need a spotter, but in how many other states is that a requirement? So now you need one, if not two other people to go along with you.

I participate in a lot of different activities year round. Water skiing is the only one I can't do by myself. I no longer participate in team sports, but even a lot of those can be worked on by yourself (at least technique/fundamentals). I think slalom skiing is very difficult, and needs a lot of time spent doing it even to be a good free skier. I only get better when I'm behind the boat. It's very hard to do drills or work on fundamentals without being behind the boat. That's not the case with many other sports/activities. 

I guess what I'm trying to say is that is comes down to access in a certain way. Even if you are the most driven skier alive, have a brand new tournament ski boat on a private lake with a course, and 24 hours of daylight with 85 degree temps, you can't do anything without a driver. And the weather/wind is another variable that really impacts this sport especially when dealing with public water. I won't even try to address the topic of other boats sharing the water. Lots of things need to align in this sport. Not so with many others. 

Well said. I too struggle - I am in Michigan and live on a lake with a boat waiting and ready on a lift. The spotter requirement is tough one, I can usually find a driver but a third? Often when I do go out (dawn patrol) I am battling a number of other skiers (public water), not to mention the wake surfer who wants glass (???).  So I am doing more SUP, e-foiling, kayaking, cycling, sailing, etc pretty anything I can do solo and in many cases without regard to water conditions.  

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On 5/13/2023 at 1:01 AM, Taynton said:

I only have time for 1 response ill get to the rest later. To answer @Horton

(Canadian dollars)

My Snowmobile equipment investment is around $35 000  operating costs around $200 per day 

My Skydiving equipment Investment is about $25 000 operating costs 250 to 350 per day 

My skiing investment is about  $11 000 (granted I have an old boat 92 Brendella shortline) and about $60 per day operating costs

* i did not include the property on the ski lake because it is not necessary to participate in the sport and it is also my home but full disclosure it was about $60 000 

Thanks for the responses Ill try to address the rest next week on my way to my first professional level man made ski lake!! soo pumped!!

Does that 25k for skydiving include a plane, or do you go somewhere and pay per jump? Do you get a new parachute each year? Im not trying to stir anything, but have 0 clue how that works, most people when they look at skiing (at least high end) are factoring new ski every 2-3 years, with parachutes, do they change things to make one better than the other? I have several friends who are really into it with 1k + total jumps, but I dont think they have spent close to 25k, maybe they have and thats why they are always to broke to do fun things with our group of friends now.

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Performance Ski and Surf 

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The current arrangements are well established.  Don’t alienate your current base to attract the few possible newcomers.  Focusing on public lake access, accessible courses, and supporting the clubs that function in these premises is the best way to save the “sport”, which is really just a backyard past time, and a segment of the watersports industry.  Interested to see how this year shakes out with the economy, consumers/participants have tighter budgets while the cost to participate, especially in competition, continues to increase.  Passion and dedication can only last so long when the wallet is limited. 

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Interesting comment by @unksskis regarding the cost / economy impacting watersports and skiing. I do a fair amount of skiing on Norris Lake in TN every summer. Last year we noted that there seemed to be a significant number of people waterskiing (especially slaloming) and that there seemed to be a steep drop off in the number of surfing barges. Perhaps the price of boat gas was the straw that broke the camel’s back on top of the cost of the boat, tow vehicle, etc. for the wakesurfing crowd. It was encouraging to see that more people were skiing and were out behind more reasonable boats. 

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@unksskis, good point. Trying to bend  R ol L class competitive slalom skiing to accomodate the masses is a bit like trying to change  snow ski SL rules to have more peple being able to go down a world cup course. Snow ski is not huge because of easy access to world cup gate conditions. Or FIS-certified skis. On the contrary…

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last weekends format: simple!

medal divisions..

women: over 18-55k/34 max speed. women Over 45 -52k/55k                             women over 65 any speed.

Men : over 18 36 mph                                           men over 35 55k/34 mph                                   men over 65  52k/max

new 55k lake record 2.5 at 39...

3rds of slalom and trick $50......where were ya????

 

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Costs are up for sure. Was able to purchase a lake home in FL (fixeruper) on the cheap but it’s now worth more then I could afford if I wanted to buy it now. My boat is old but in great shape and I could probably sell it for almost what I bought it for in 2004. Hurricane destroyed the dock my father and I built 25yrs ago. Factor in materials and labor if hired done and cost to rebuild is over 10 times more. Currently DYIing it. I could buy a vest rope and handle for what it cost for one rope not that long ago. Not something I want to buy used. I look at my daughter and think …no way can she afford this sport. Makes me sad to think that. But she will always have a lake home to come to since I can’t afford to move anywhere else on a lake. I’ve always said this sport can be done with some creative thinking and hard work as I consider myself a skier on a budget and had to do just that to stay in it. I’d like to think that still holds true but I’m not so sure anymore. 🫤

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On 5/14/2023 at 6:28 PM, mlange said:

Sure it's dying.

40 years ago jet skis, wakeboards and wakesurf boards didn't exist.  The only real water sport option was skiing.  When those others came around they didn't bring in new people to water sports.  They stole from the existing water ski base.  So you took a niche sport and made it even nichier.  

And while access and cost is clearly a problem it sure hasn't slowed down the growth of wakeboarding or wakesurfing where the boat costs are even worse.  So while cost is a good reason for why skiing hasn't grown it is not the reason that it has shrunk.

And as Horton said... it's real damn tough to get any good at it.  If I suck at golfing I can still go out, play a round, and hit a few good shots.  How long does it take a new skier to do even the mini course for the first time?  

 

🔼 This

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There are different lenses to look with. 

I was in Orlando for a tournament at MC skis and Swiss. both had a wait list. 

I could see the boat pulling ski school all week from 8am to past 7pm non stop.

In Europe most skiers don't own a boat, nor have a place on a lake. They join a ski school club. 

Where I leave in So Cal, there are no ski Schools. It makes it difficult for anyone to just come and get a ride. 

My view is that USAWS should focus more on open days at lake, partnering with ski school and lakes. We could have a USA Waterski Summer tour with demo days...

 

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It's just not that common to have a really fortunate situation in terms of cost/access.  It exists it is just rare and I was really lucky.  Had my spine held out and ski partners remained, the only thing we were missing was ZO on the bubble butt could have swung that and continued on the cheap--4 seldom used public water courses within 10'' of my house when I lived rural.  Between ski buddies a "bu" with ZO and two PP bubble butt nautiques.  

My two nephews in Indy are doing ok by club skiing and have a Sport Nautique for the big lake.  My nephew Mitch skis with a guy who has the boat/course on his lake, has his first town home and bought ski rights at Trophy Lakes in New Germany--I think a pretty careful spender otherwise. 

I now practice in a very affluent area (used to be rural) right near famous lake Minnetonka and a zillion other small lakes.  A LOT of patients have lake homes here and/or lake cabins to the north.  They all know about skiing, surfing etc.  Almost none know anything about skiing a course.  Some are like yeah there are a couple of guys who throw one in--they are pretty good skiers to watch. 

My bro Jim had a course on his lake--he and mostly one other boat skied it.  We had a course on my public rural lake, we were the only one's who skied it.  Ski partner Doug had a course on his lake, we were the only one's who skied it.  We had 2 courses on another under-used public lake--we were the only ones to ski them.   

Maybe some of this is the physicality, seriousness and attention to detail it takes(even if we slalom heads think that's fun) in order to be able to a) do it at all and b) work hard enough to get good.   Add that it is (most often)expensive and you need someone with all the desire, physicality, attention to detail and either a lot of money or significant other financial sacrifices to make it happen--and some ski partners who share that view.  I guess I can see why it's a small sport.    I was really lucky.

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A bit off topic - all my docs waterski:-)  Primary, ortho, ophthalmologist, dermatologist 🤣   And they know surgery is only during off season with a focused purpose of getting back on the water / snow and focusing on being / staying active.

It may be a niche sport with declining participation although there are strong pockets where access is available to many.

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I always wonder what each person's definition of slalom is? Any type of waterskiing? Skiing on a single ski? Skiing a course? Skiing in tournaments? Which is it? 

Personally, I know 20-25 people that use my course on public water. Not one of them skis in tournaments, and none of them have any interest in it either. We all enjoy skiing the course and chatting at 7am on a Saturday or 5pm Wednesday night and all being on our way 2 hours later. 

I will agree that recreational slalom is in decline, but that is factors outside of the skiing communities control. Wake boats, social media, and peers all drive what is cool and popular and skiing is not on that list at the moment. Cost isn't a problem, access isn't either. There are plenty of people surfing and wake boarding on more expensive boats all day. The "issue" is they simply don't want to.

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I would put forth that the worst way to get into tournament skiing is to buy a boat and a ski and recreationally ski.  If you get really into it and develop a passion great but you're going to have a hell of a time finding a course and access and a tournament with openings.  And your investment in money for the boat and what goes with it will make it harder for you to justify the travel and costs of attending tournaments and events.

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Bottom line is that is up to ALL of us that do Slalom to encourage, entice and invite others to do it. I've skied for over 45 years with the last 3 being able to do so everyday living on the largest lake here in Ga. Truly introduced to course skiing since I moved to the lake when we raise it up. My swerving has drastically improved by learning to ski the course and being fortunate to have my neighbors who are better skiers than I coach me up. That being said I've had a couple of neighbors who see us go out almost every day want to be a part of it.  One wants us to teach his kids to ski and another neighbor, caught the bug and bought an Omni over the winter to start skiing with us after going with me just once. His wife even gave him the nod to purchase a competition Ski boat to add to the Moomba Surf boat he already has. Other neighbors have mentioned going because they used to ski back in the day but claim they are too old. "Horse Hockey!!!" That's just an excuse! You do realize the guys who you see going out are in their 50's and 60's running 34 mph.

We public lake swervers may have a slight advantage over those who live on a private course or lake just because there is more exposure. We have to talk it up and show it up to those who may not have ever seen it. I don't think it's DYING it's just not growing as fast as we'd like it too. Will we ever see back to it's hey day in the 80's and 90's? Probably not but we've got to promote it more than the Pro's do.

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I find myself thankful there are competitive skiers for decades to push the sport to where it got to regarding equipment. That said i'm satisfied with 15 to 25 year old stuff.  my boats are 24 and 41 years old. I bought a very rough but operational RCB for 7k a year and half ago, it could be skied as-is the day i tested it. It would for someone else too.

I just like to carve. the acceleration. the flow. etc. 3-4 long unbroken  30+ cuts per pass at the best intensity we can muster, so does the circle of skiers around me

I'm observing resurgence in higher-end recreation skiing, after a couple malaise decades of decline,  watching wake sports dominate

Take anything, there will be a segment that has to make a competition about it. Even something placid and therapeutic, like paddle boarding, there is a group that determined to make a sanctioned league and race out of it, or nothing.

 

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I stepped away from Slalom skiing back in the 90's and got into wakeboarding as the craze started took off. Started attending the masters regularly because of wakeboarding but was still of awe of stars in all disciplines.  Bought my 88' SN in 2001 because of it. Because of my involvement with CCFan and connections with CC I found out that the SN I bought was a towboat in the 88' masters. Andy won #5 that year. Was asked by Nautique to bring it back in 2010 when the SN 200 was introduced.  Asked Andy who was at his motorcoach/booth if he'd come autograph the boat up the hill and he said he'd be honored and happy to do it but he had to ski first but would after doing so. I walked to the pavilion and watched him rip that course apart having been retired for 6 years. Holy Crap!!😮The man is 48 and is still shredding like that??? I think I need to put down the wakeboard pick up a slalom ski again. I've never looked back. That adrenaline rush that I got from boarding was replaced by a tapered 1x6 going 34MPH.  I had seen Andy several times and every masters before he passed. I wanted to walk up to him and thank him for getting back on a slalom again.  I never did as every time I saw him he was engaged with other fans or skiers talking it up or whatever and I didn't want to bother him.  He passed before I could ever personally thank him for drawing me back into a sport I can't get enough of. I wrote Deena a letter via FB to let her know about the boat and how Andy signed it for me (shoulda got her autograph too) and that because of her Husband, I'm back on a ski and loving every chance I get to ski. @mike_mapple...I don't know if your mom shared this with you but your Dad was my hero and I still to this day when I ski behind that 88' I thank him for getting me back on a slalom ski. 

Slalom skiing will live forever because of the Andys, Wades, Will's, Nates Freddies, Kristi's, Reginas and etc. 

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In general terms this board is comprised of old guys with old thinking  --  we want skiing to be the way it was when we were young.  That is unlikely to happen for many reasons mentioned above and the obvious - the boat market has changed.

But where I see potential for growth and a new era of comp skiers is thru Collegiate skiing.   It needs to be supported and promoted, we need to continue to support the colleges with teams and encourage other schools to start ski clubs.  Many of the skiers get the bug during college and then want to continue after college,   I love their passion and still think there is a team element that could to be bought to AWSA.   

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Long thread so I apologize if this point was made, but collegiate skiing seems like a pretty good start to a comeback.  My son spent 4 years on MSU team and what a tremendous opportunity.  Travel, lifelong new friends and a shit ton of fun! Most of the kids were new or recreational at best too in the sport.  My son landed his first real job largely from putting “site manager” etc for ski team on his resume.  
 

many of these kids will go on the buy boats and share skiing w their kids I believe 

college meets and especially the nationals look like way more fun than the other tournaments w the emphasis on fun and team spirit regardless of ski level.  at the nationals there are some of the best in the world along side someone skiing 30 MPH or maybe landing 1 jump !  

 

 

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@BraceMaker

I have been saying the same thing for years. ultimately, the only solution is for people with established careers and access to ski sites to welcome recent grads to come ski with them.

I'm a little grumpy about the subject because I have tried to promote initiatives to this effect and it has been met with deaf ears. everybody loves the idea but few are willing to get on board

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1 hour ago, BraceMaker said:

@Woodybc62 what we as a sport need is a really clear way for those collegiate skiers to stay in the sport for the 5-10 years after college, because atleast historically most of them stop skiing until they are around 40.

I resemble that remark.  And it's one of my big regrets.  It's tough getting out of college, starting a professional career, being broke and keeping up skiing to a level you are used to.  And golf.  God damn golf.  

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24 minutes ago, jjackkrash said:

I resemble that remark.  And it's one of my big regrets.  It's tough getting out of college, starting a professional career.

 

Very.  College skiing too is so at risk reference what happened to Iowa State's team.  I don't have an update on that maybe someone does but college skiing isn't even as strong as it should be.  It should be FAR stronger.

If you're big into skiing and want it to grow sit down and pretend you know nothing about waterskiing and figure out how you'd get a set locally based on google.  No insider knowledge see if you could find out how to go waterskiing in your town with out getting a member of ball of spray to DM you a cell number to text.  Or send messages from a new email address to all the listed waterski clubs on USA Waterski's contact directory and see how many emails you get back.  Hint it will probably be either zero, a bad email address, or sorry we're a private club.

 

I do have a few solutions to brainstorm and they are from easiest to hardest to implement.

Post-collegiate retention through an "alumni league" where people who were members of a ski team or even just went to a university could enter into a fantasy ski league.  To make it fair for different states where seasons and events are different you can only use official scores and you would be limited to say 2 or 3 entries per skier a season but then use that in some way with the collegiate ski team to get some sort of award or points for the team even if its just promotional like a ski donated to the team that wins brought to you by Syndicate.  This is easy because its basically a fantasy league but would give those collegiate team members a reason to attend a handful of tournaments.  And the reason again to only allow 2 or 3 is that you don't want these skiers to be discouraged like oh well why would I bother I can only go to 2 events this summer.  And then maybe you just take the top 5 of those entries and you make it like a ski bracket.  This could also encourage post collegiate participation in trick and jump?

Involve the local dealership network more heavily in promoting ski days at clubs.  Even weekday events but have events for skiers who haven't participated in more than X events a season.  Host these along with boat promo or ski demo days.  This means that you get newer skiers to ski in a sanctioned event like a class F but you can support it in other ways by doing it along with maybe Radar Nation or Goode Demo day, its a reason to get skiers to come out to take a set but you also make it a tournament and sanction it to get those new skiers to "ski a tournament"  this is harder because it asks for involvement but do it during the summer and maybe use it to fund raise for a collegiate team and staff the tournament with college skiers?  Hold safety/technical/driving clinic during the event - get more of those collegiate skiers signed up.

Clubs need to evaluate their down time and consider having a "uber of waterskiing"  maybe Uber is wrong, airbnb of waterskiing.  For this demographic of skiers and I've maybe aged out of it to the point where its more clear how I can have debt and own a truck an lake house and a boat (but then again that doesn't get me to tournaments) what about clubs evaluate how much time their lake doesn't work and use it to generate revenue for the club.  This is harder I assume it involves some form of insurance and detail.  But I drive past quite a few ski lakes that don't have a single person using them for good bits of the day.  Fractional ownership, limited memberships, pay as you go options with restrictions.  Somehow provide a clear path to participation on that water when its not in use?

Finally open water course permitting.  I don't know how many times I can say this but as someone who owns 2 ski boats, has a family on a lake, owns a complete ski course and cannot get a permit to put it in even for the day.  How the heck does somewhat participate in the sport.  I've illegally used my ski course 3 times on the lake in the 12 years I've owned it.  its not due to lack of ability to launch it or water to use it or desire its just how willing am I to get in trouble for it.  We need real actual lobbying to be put forth to get access for the course.  Maybe this is where the wake surfers who are being targeted need to start reaching out to us and saying we'll support you if you support us.

 

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1 hour ago, Horton said:

@BraceMaker

I have been saying the same thing for years. ultimately, the only solution is for people with established careers and access to ski sites to welcome recent grads to come ski with them.

I'm a little grumpy about the subject because I have tried to promote initiatives to this effect and it has been met with deaf ears. everybody loves the idea but few are willing to get on board

 

I think outreach to the skiers during the sport to get them signed up to help run events is huge.  But also its clear that a handful of skiers from each team are a HUGE center for growth in most regions.  I'm sure all of you know 2 or 3 people right out of college that are driving, judging, scoring, and helping to run events.

I think that side of the sport is underdeveloped and if half the people who inquired where to ski instead were directed to how to learn to be a tournament judge, or tech, or safety as a way into skiing you'd actually increase retention.  But getting people water time means filling time the water isn't used > buying a boat.

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We have 41 lots on our lakes and at our event last week we had only 3 of the lots with skiers in the event. We were all on the dock watching. 
I get to ski everyday and have no desire to drop the kind of coin needed to prove to myself I can still PB at a tournament I have a top flight driver, boat with SP and good weather  

@Mrs_MS

Thanks go out to USA waterski for making my decision easy and saving a ton of cash yearly. 

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Maybe the title of this thread should be "Tournament Slalom is Dying". And that may be true, I actually wouldn't know because I haven't been to a tournament in years.

But at the lakes where I ski, course skiing has more people involved than I've ever seen before. That includes one private site and one public site. At the public lake, I'm seeing more traction than at the private ski club where I'm a member. I've taught on average 10 new teenagers and young adults how to ski the course every year for the last 3 years. Most of them have been other lake residents that just see us out skiing the course. 

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Very old topic. Sport isn't dying, but it is and will continue to contract. Getting people introduced to the sport, to have fun, doesn't result in execution. Execution (staying or growing) in the sport still suffers from all the known barrier issues such as costs, access, time, risk, etc. Sure you can have great fun and interest, but if the real world barriers are too high for execution then you're no further ahead. It's THAT list of barrier issues that is not changing, and in many cases is actually increasing. People who may be interested simply can't execute on that interest.   

Every year we read about what - More courses closing, fewer public sites, clubs folding, college ski teams folding or on the ropes, higher and higher costs for private site skiing, etc, etc. Add to that the ridiculous costs of boats, equipment, fuel. insurance, etc. 

All the talk about organizing clubs etc brings another whole set of barrier issues with it such as organization, boat purchases / maintenance, insurance, money management, etc. Who wants to deal with all of that on top of your day job, plus considering a "club" of any sort on  public or private water brings another set of barriers to the table as most lakes don't want to think about the additional risks associated with a club skiing a course etc., which is why were seeing fewer permits on public waters to begin with. Even in this thread there's also been open comments challenging whether existing clubs want longer lines to ski on their current sites.  

Related, putting on any sort of event, formal or otherwise as we all know is is also hugely complex and expensive. Even for established events the difficulty and costs today to get officials, drivers, volunteers, etc is extremely challenging, which is having an effect on the number of events.      

And I'll get flamed on this one I know but college teams are not the savior either. As noted above, every year we read about another team on the ropes or closing. VERY few coming out of the college teams truly excel in the sport, and very few stay engaged in skiing after college. It's a cool sport to be part of in college to have fun at the lake and maybe hit a few tournaments but reality is it's a huge party sport.  These kids aren't getting out of school and deciding they want to go ski. A huge percentage of the college team participants were never even on skis before joining the team , and will return to that life after college too. This is just a another reality check. 

Other historical indicators include looking back at the coverage, sponsors, crowds, purse monies, etc., that used to be there in the 70's, 80's, 90's. Today they're all a fraction if at all of what they used to be.  We all see the broadcasts and as far as on site attendance its 98% the skiers and their friends and families. Other spectators are rare. The best skiers today all have jobs as well just to pay the bills.   

Demographics of tournament registrations also tells the story. Last I looked Mens 6 & 7 had the highest number of participants in pretty much all tournaments. The younger crowd isn't there by comparison. Sure we see some amazing exceptions but we all agree their numbers are few.   

Boats are another indicator. Look at the downsizing of promo boats availability in the past 10 years alone, fewer 3 event build slots, crazy high prices. Let's face it, public companies are driven by shareholder value. If the math continues to show smaller margins on 3 event boats vs barges we should expect to see fewer build slots continuing. If the numbers don't support the capital requirements for 3 event builds there could be further contraction. 

Bottom line, as stated it's not getting people interested, it's interested people being able to execute. The barrier list is large and continues to grow. 

It's great to see the passion that Ballers have for the sport we all love, and the efforts of so many everyday, but it's essential we look at the landscape clearly. Things will continue to contract.    

Reality check.............

       

     

 

 

Edited by MDB1056
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23 hours ago, BraceMaker said:

Finally open water course permitting.  .........  We need real actual lobbying to be put forth to get access for the course.  

 

That is what AWSA, BWSW, IWWF, FFSNW and all the other national and international governing bodies should be doing with our fees....

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I agree on the college thing as not being the solution.  At least here in WI, waterski shows are the best avenue to grow towed sports.  Perhaps not tournament slalom, but ski shows demonstrate all that can be done behind a boat, and there are always a crap ton of people watching...in WI anyway.  

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11 hours ago, MDB1056 said:

It's a cool sport to be part of in college to have fun at the lake and maybe hit a few tournaments but reality is it's a huge party sport

Oh the horror!  A place where pros and beginners alike can have fun on the same dock sounds like a real downer.  

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I think, the only way to get more skiers is to develop ski clubs and ski schools. If there was a ski school near my house, I would consider that option over owning a lake house and a boat.

When I leaved in Florida, I could get 2 ski ride before lunch and spend the afternoon with the family at the beach or by the pool.

Local tennis club, not fancy, charges $75+ for a one on one 45min lesson. Just a guy renting a court.

I pay $60 in Florida for 15-20min with $150k boat, driver, coaching, gas, lake...

My point is you don't need to have a tennis court at your house to play tennis. You just go to the local club and pay $10 to $20 for a court.

Some locations are better suited than others to have clubs, but to me this is the door to more members and addicts.

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11 minutes ago, rico said:

I think, the only way to get more skiers is to develop ski clubs and ski schools. If there was a ski school near my house, I would consider that option over owning a lake house and a boat.

When I leaved in Florida, I could get 2 ski ride before lunch and spend the afternoon with the family at the beach or by the pool.

Local tennis club, not fancy, charges $75+ for a one on one 45min lesson. Just a guy renting a court.

I pay $60 in Florida for 15-20min with $150k boat, driver, coaching, gas, lake...

My point is you don't need to have a tennis court at your house to play tennis. You just go to the local club and pay $10 to $20 for a court.

Some locations are better suited than others to have clubs, but to me this is the door to more members and addicts.

while I agree with this, tennis / most other sports are bad examples, as for tennis you bring your own racket, which is what 500$ tops for the highest end? (I could be way off) Golf is the same, a solid set of clubs will set you back 9-1200$ but then thats all you need, and then you go play, with skiing, having a club is great but the pricing will never the be same( maybe golf is a bad example as I pay sometime close to 100$ for a round) but for tennis they built the courts and have very little upkeep fee, compared to having to have a 150k boat, a lake, and then upkeep/gas on all that. I do think it is a great way to keep it going, look at LaPoints, we get so many people in the shop who are members there. I hope to see more places like that pop up, as that is what will help to keep skiing strong. Dying is quite an overstatement though..

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@mike_mapple

I think both golf and tennis are great examples, as is skeet or trap or sporting clays. In all three of these I can very clearly demonstrate why it is easier to get into any of them than it is to get into waterskiing. But also how they are quite similar and quite different.

Equipment costs - in all of these sports they are similar in that you can get started with a base level equipment/gear maybe even used gear that will do what you need all of these sports.  Then they all ramp up quite similarly.  No one owns one racket or one set of clubs, no one owns one shotgun.  They all have "uniforms" be it vests, sneakers, ear protectors almost all require a hat and glasses to get through a day.  Costs for a good slalom ski and bindings to get started used 500 bucks? Cost for a used shotgun similar.  Top end costs buying a new shotgun or a new slalom ski?  Well it can go pretty high but these are all personal costs.

Venue.  Tennis benefits from public clubs, as does golf, shooting is more similar to waterskiing many of the shooting clubs are fully private.  But golf and tennis has that as well.  What does it cost to join a Golf Club in a busy suburban area - a swanky private club?  I know of a few that have buy ins that cost more than houses.  Some of them have tennis courts.  But all of these things have something in common.  In most areas I can find you a public tennis court with nets, a public golf course with tees and holes, a public shooting range with throwers. Pay for rounds.

 

What is hard in slalom?  Public or open to the public waterskiing. 

There are clearly exceptions but I can go to darned near any city that has lakes and find a place to shoot trap, play tennis, or golf just by googling it.  If you want to pick a city and pay good money to get a ski set... well that's also expensive but also probably cannot have it happen.

And a golf course is surely more land than a ski lake and has tons more water.

Edited by BraceMaker
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An observation on the contraction of people water skiing. Competition from easier but 'similar' sports (things done on the same body of water with a boat) such as wakeboarding, surfing, tubing, paddle boarding, jet skiing and droning around in a pontoon siphoning off potential skiers.  Basically, things that are easier to do.  That is what has happened on our lake, the upcoming potential skiers are not, they do easier things. 

Perhaps a similar comparison is the growth of pickle ball, it is stealing a lot of the tennis crowd.  Why, its not as hard on the body and easier to master at a level one can play with others, you just show up at a court and presto, the opportunity is there.

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37 minutes ago, BraceMaker said:

@mike_mapple

I think both golf and tennis are great examples, as is skeet or trap or sporting clays. In all three of these I can very clearly demonstrate why it is easier to get into any of them than it is to get into waterskiing. But also how they are quite similar and quite different.

Equipment costs - in all of these sports they are similar in that you can get started with a base level equipment/gear maybe even used gear that will do what you need all of these sports.  Then they all ramp up quite similarly.  No one owns one racket or one set of clubs, no one owns one shotgun.  They all have "uniforms" be it vests, sneakers, ear protectors almost all require a hat and glasses to get through a day.  Costs for a good slalom ski and bindings to get started used 500 bucks?

 

 

What is hard in slalom?  Public or open to the public waterskiing. 

There are clearly exceptions but I can go to darned near any city that has lakes and find a place to shoot trap, play tennis, or golf just by googling it.  If you want to pick a city and pay good money to get a ski set... well that's also expensive but also probably cannot have it happen.

And a golf course is surely more land than a ski lake and has tons more water.

yes a ski is 500, buy land and dig a lake, Min 500k in a rural area..you could lease a building and put a tennis court in it for much less, or build and own land..pouring concrete is much cheaper than digging a lake (Tennis) and upkeep is way less than a lake. As this i have first hand knowlege of with our lake, I know what it costs to have the water treated, fish have to be bought/ buoys(not really big) insurance if you have events / anything where people can die (I dont know what tennis insurance/golf would be like)

 

 

Golf course cost 7-25million to build lets say. bigger land for sure, but they also sell memberships for (bayhill) 30k initiation fee, + minimum spending each year on golf / food + 8k annual dues. On this they have a waiting list right now, so lets say they have 1k member total thats more money in one year than most ski clubs will ever make. No obviously you have costs to maintain that property. More land and more people = more money overall. I looked into turning my lake into a "club" but the amount of people who complain about paying 50-70$ for a ski ride makes it not even worth a headache, yes golf is 45-100$ average at some places, but then they are buying food and getting 300 people a day at some places (not everywhere of course)

 

A club pays lets say 70-80k for a new boat, which people complain when its not the newest so lets say that expense is every 3-4 years and maybe only have 20-30 memebers? Dues are higher and cost is higher, as soon as someone wants to buy a lake that handle 100-300 people a day, I can think of maybe 4 places that could make that work...skiing is a niche sport at best For golf that good 500 set will last people most of their life just like that 500$ ski can (unless you are trying to ski alot) which is the same for golf, I dont need my 1k set of clubs, just like 75-80% of people dont "need" the highest end skis, but we all want to get the best or we wouldnt be in the ski industry.

 

 

 

 

 

Really what it boils down to, Skeet shooting / Tennis / golf (in this conversation) are more marketable (tennis year round pretty much anywhere) Golf is getting more mainstream with Top golf and others like it. Skiing requires that 100k boat(less if you go older models of course) So its a much more "personal" buy.

Golf Tennis, and I dont really know about shooting have way more "public clubs" which is what skiing needs, but someone would need to spend some serious cash they dont plan to get back anytime soon in order to do so.

 

The side note I dont think many golf course actually treat the water, the run fountains in some to keep the water moving, since no one is in them, they are typically just taken over by algae.

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One can lead a horse to the water but not force him to drink....

All clubs in Sweden are open for new skiers. It is sort of an obligation for a club to exist...

The cost is very low, starting from type 100 usd per year. That includs unlimited skiing with own gas and beginer equipement to borrow for free.

We, and most clubs arrang ski school each year. We have about 40 to 50 kids age from 8 to 16. The fee include skiing the rest of the summer. We also offer parent ski day, reunion day end summer.

Very few attend the club for more skiing. About one person in 3 year. Less than one percent. We have had more luck finding new members that are 50 plus.... 

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We got a freshman in high school from his 1 buoy pb to getting around 4, shadow 5, around 6 and out the gates.  So close, and so exciting.  The whole boat was pumped.  We all know next time out he's gonna run it and we all can't wait.

For all the shit we go through to make this sport work, when it works, its totally worth it.  

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