Who wins?

[lpskier]

Skier A runs 38. Coming around six ball at 39, A gets a ton of slack, but makes it back to line of boat guides before popping the handle. A does not go through the gates. B runs 38, runs 39 and out the gates. B throws the fist and skis back to the dock. What is the result and why? 

[sunperch]

Tie, 6 is 6 in the scorebook.  Skier B needs at least 1/4 @41 to win.  Skier A is no continuation.

[Horton]

@lpskier that is a great question. I think @sunperch is correct but is worth looking up.

[Bruce_Butterfield]

It’s a tie. But skier B has to buy the beer for being a dumbass. 
Same score for both skiers, no extra points for getting out the gates vs only getting to line of boat guides. Assuming skier B continued and got outside of 1@41 he would have been the winner. Getting outside of 1 is not a given at 41. 

At regionals or nationals that would be a runoff assuming 6@39 placed in top 5. 

at any other tournament the winner would be determined By single highest score but no one would care. Especially since skier B would be buying the beer. 

[Drago]

Tie, but , as @Bruce_Butterfieldsaid, Skier B is a dumbass.

imo, A is 6, no continuation. B, assuming he or she is not a dumbass, should be able to ski through the 41 gate and get 0 @ 41 and win

[ETskier]

There's  a couple things going on here, may be a trick question. 1st, most generally if the skier gets to the guide bouy line after any turn bouy, but pops the handle,  it's scored a 1/2. That's a skier safety feature built into the scoring and the skier is considered to not be in skiing position.   2nd, skier B was foolish to not confirm skier A's score before deciding not to continue. To be sure he should have taken his 41 shot.

[ETskier]

So, skier A gets 5 1/5 @39, skier B gets 6 @39. 

[Mateo_Vargas]

@ETskierthe rules are different after 6 ball. If @ricocould get the rules changed it would be different after 5 ball.

[aupatking]

Is @Drago not correct, that 0@41 still wins?

[ETskier]

I yield to Meteo. Slack line after 6 ball is addressed differently in IWWF rules and not in AWSA rules or addendums. So if tournament is sanctioned L or R IWWF rules apply resulting in a tie. If sanctioned as AWSA E or C, skier B wins. 

[Bruce_Butterfield]

@Drago 0@41 is the same score as 6@39, so still a tie if skier B goes inside 1 ball.

@ETskier you raise a valid point that idk if lpskier intended or not.  The so called "safety feature" is another dumb idea IMO and only adds additional confusion.  If the judges call skier A as 5 1/2 if he did not have a "tight line" when he got to the line of boat guides, then skier B is the winner and not a dumbass afterall.  

IMO the rule change to require a "tight line" was a really bad idea, but another topic from what I think lpskier intended?

[Drago]

@Bruce_Butterfield

imo means In My Opinion.

I think 0@41 should beat 6@39.

I agree the slack line rule is/was/always will be a really bad idea.

[aupatking]

@Dragomy bad wording. I knew what you meant, but the 0@41 beating 6@39 made too much sense to not be the rule. Stupid rule.

@Bruce_Butterfieldwould B have to turn back in? Or would a 1/4 buoy be scored? When is a 1/4 buoy recognized? 

I’ve got nothing but questions that just show that I’m obviously not familiar with the rule book. Laziness or ignorance on my part, but thank you guys for answering anyway.

[LeonL]

Tie

[Bruce_Butterfield]

@Dragoagreed.

From the scorer's and winner's perspective 6@39NC is the same score as 0@41.  Not exactly fair, but that's the rule.  The last thing we need is ANOTHER rule for oddball cases like this.

So @lpskier is this what you were looking for?

I had disagreement with the slack line rule from the beginning.  Too confusing and way too much intepretation to be consistent.  After it passed, I learned that the reason for it was some ultra short line guys were getting to the line of boat guides AHEAD of the boat, creating an obviously very dangerous situation.  IMO, the better solution would be to disqualify the skier for creating a dangerous situation, the same way a jumper is disqualified for passing between the boat and ramp.  Get back to the line of boat guides with the handle in your hand (behind the boat), let it go, or try to hang on and fail, should score the full buoy.  But my opinion isn't the rule.

[aupatking]

Just my thought but completing the pass should always beat a NC

[03RLXi]

Driver buys the beers for B. Why because he/she drove B back to dock.

When driving newbies we often say 'you just follow me' 😉

Edited March 22, 2023 by 03RLXi

[rico]

In the scoring book both scores would be 114 assuming it is 36mph. It’s a tie.

i am not sure why the slack line rule doesn’t apply to 6 ball and why it was perceived less dangerous…

One part of the rule that is usually misunderstood and I witnessed being judged wrongly, is that 

1. it doesn’t apply to 6 balls

2. At buoy 1 to 5, skiers only get half a buoy with a slack line, even if they ski away.

[JackQ]

The slack line gate rule rational was discussed by @Bruce_Butterfieldand by the fact that the geometry (IE distance and angle is different for #6 to gate than other buoys to the next respective boat guide.  

[lpskier]

This interesting hypothetical came up in a discussion  in a judging clinic last weekend. Since the slack line rule does not apply at six ball, the question is whether a “completed pass” (AWSA rule 10.01) trumps  six no continuation. The answer is  “six is six,” and our hypothetical skiers would tie. 

[Jody_Seal]

the skier that skis away with continuation for next pass should be the winner!

[mike_mapple]

Driver wins. hes done pulling them.

 

But really it should be skier B as he got the continuation. That would be who should win from the average person watching on shore who doesnt know the rule book IMO

[Horton]

@mike_mapplewhat logical people think should happen and what the rule book says are not always the same thing.

[Horton]

@rico feel free to call "The Rule Book" and have her explain it to you.

[ski6jones]

From what was discussed the win is completely determined by score, and since they score the same it's a tie.  Seems reasonable enough on the surface.

Clearly skier B had a better outcome but due to the weird 6 ball rule it doesn't matter.  You'd also have the same situation if skier B turned 6 crossed, the boat guide line and didn't make the gates but skied away.

The weird 6 ball rule seems like the cause but the situation could still happen even if it were changed.

[VONMAN]

How about which ever skier held the handle back to the dock, wins. B wins.