I/o for skiing

[Reider]

Looking for advice on a new family boat. Within our budget there are options for Sea rays, chaparral, 4 winns, Glastron, etc. I want a boat I can ski behind with little wake, but I’m a long way off being a great skiier and only open water. There are options for some older direct drives, but typically more expensive. Plus where we spend our lake time, we like to pull the boat up on the beach which would be touch with a direct drive. 
 

is there a preferred type of I/o or bow rider that throws a smaller wake? Or will I just be disappointed with the size of wake and find a way to make an older direct drive work? (2001 tige, 2004 moomba are some options). As I said I love to ski and can still pull hard with good spray, and hoping to improve once we get a boat. Also we live in Canada so limited time to ski and options for boats.

Any advice on preferred options for I/o would be great!

Thanks!

 

[escmanaze]

If you haven't skied behind a real ski boat, then you will never know what you are missing.  I grew up skiing behind a 1990 4 winns freedom 190.  It was about as close to a ski boat as you could get while still being an i/o.  I thought it was great because I didn't know any better.  Now that I own my 97 SNOB, I DO NOT enjoy going back and skiing my Dad's 4 Winns at all.  Hate driving it too.  But if you don't know any better, you'll enjoy it just fine.  You won't however, find any useful information on i/o brand differentiation here.  Most folks here have less than 10 hours skiing or driving anything other than a true ski boat.  And even for the folks like me who have some history - that was all 15 years ago before I saw the light and I haven't cared to revisit or keep up on the happenings of the dark side a bit, so I'm useless on that topic.  

[Ski_Dad]

I would suggest skiing whatever you look at before buying, but for I/O you can check into Stingray b/c they have a decent hull design on some of the 18-20 footers.   None of them are going to ski like a direct drive.    If you can up your budget to 20k you could find a Sunsetter LXI like I have and it will be a great family boat.  

[swbca]

I skied behind a Glastron I/O for 4 years.  There were many differences from a ski boat, but we didn't know better and we never complained about the boat.   My daily ski partner was a world trick champ and had also placed in overall in the world.  We were both practicing into 36off@36mph (premetric) with timed runs on an accurate course.  Even though the boat had many differences from a ski boat it didn't seem to hurt our skiing.  

With an I/O now, the size of the wake at lower speeds might be a disadvantage.   And research the tow bar options carefully for position in the boat and for strength.  Back in the old days we added struts to the factory tow bar to keep from breaking it off.

[S1Pitts]

I can't quite agree with the above posts so I will chime in. Up here in Canada (BC) there were a lot of Appolo Starfires sold in the 70's and 80's.. Many are still on the water today and I know that two sold on our lake last summer. They can be OMC or Mercruiser drivelines but I recommend trying to stay with the Merc.

I have skied this hull alot and yes it is not a DD but it can take you a long ways. It will be a bit crowed for a family but it rides rough water really well which is a prime consideration everyone should have when boating on public waters. The one for sale pictured is 2 hrs from me in Spokane Wa. (3950.00)

My ski partners is simular, it pulls well, and with a 350 4bl carb it does 70 mph so you can get there in a hurry too. 

There are many hulls out there that would fit the bill. Link here to a good reference site for classic hulls. http://www.retrorunabout.com/

[MDB1056]

Don't drink the Kool-aid . Buy a sound older direct drive comp boat. You'll never regret it, you'll have less maintenance issues, they're super easy to work on, handle 10X better than what you're considering, and your resale will always be there.  As you're not training for elite competition you'll be perfectly fine with many 90's era (or even 80's) comp boats. Look at MC, Correct Craft, Brendella, Malibu, Hydrodyne, MB. Sport. FAR better investment and family treasure. Want extra cool? Consider older MC Stars & Stripes. Timeless........ Like classic Corvettes of the water.          

[epnault]

Agree with MDB1056.  Use what you budget and buy a DD for that.  For the sand bar/beach just moor it out a little.

[2Valve]

 As others have noted, save some more money and get an older Direct Drive. Having spent six years skiing behind a Four Winns Freedom 190 also, you just won't progress, fighting that huge wake.

[UWSkier]

If there's no way to make a DD work, I'd recommend a lightweight outboard runabout over a stern drive.  I grew up skiing behind a 1988 Concord Mach 1 with a Merc 175.  Tiny, soft wakes.  Better than any stern drive.

[Reider]

Thanks everyone for the advice. I will see what I can make work for an older DD. 
 

I do love the idea of an outboard as that’s what I skied on growing up, but with 3 young kids, the sun pad and swim platform on the back are a must. 
 

seems like all I/o would be the same for skiing, as in not great. But try to get a lighter one if that’s the route to go. 

[Ski_Dad]

yes the lighter the better. 

[BrennanKMN]

Honestly, if I were you I wouldn't consider a DD. Too many downsides for the casual skier with a family. Get a Vdrive if you can afford it. If it is a true family boat that you want to spend the day on cruising around, going to sand bars, tubing with the kids, a DD will disappoint in every single category other than skiing. A Vdrive will be great in every single category (save budget) and a I/O will be great at everything other than skiing.

You're on a website with the hardest of the hard core. We often suggest nothing but the purest ski boat. Try and buy what works best for YOU and your family. If skiing is the priority over everything else, then a DD is great. If you value other aspects of boating, I'd consider an alternative.

[skibrain]

I ski 3-5x a week behind a direct drive ski boat. I love it. And I still ski a bunch behind an 18’ Glastron with an outboard. the typical mid-size outboard boat weighs about 600 lb less than an I/O. Less weight, less wake, better hole shot AND more interior room as the motor isn’t pushed into the boat. 7-8 people in the boat on an evening cruise and everyone is happy.  Like any boat, when skiing, two in the boat is best.
 

Getting a ski on and into the water from the boat is not as easy, but if you can ski off a dock, no problem. We’ve got a carbed 150hp V6 2-stroke OMC and it’s quiet, trouble free and requires no winterization. None. We added  hydraulic steering which I’d recommend on a bigger outboard - much less muscle required to drive.
 

It is not a sexy looking boat, but if you’re never skiing a course it will track just fine, pull you out of the water just fine (we’ve had 8 skiers pulled up behind the lowly Glastron) and with line shortened to 22 or 28 off, I get into a reasonable part of the wake that I can rip right through. Oh and if you care, it’s waaaay faster than any DD tournament boat you’re going to find.  And it will trailer behind a minivan. 

Wake pic below has all skiers at 15’ off. Wake flattens a bit closer to boat, but very skiable. 

 

Edited February 15, 2023 by skibrain

[Andre]

It's boating so...

First of all,what's your budget ?

[Laz]

I skied my whole life (until age 37) behind I/O. The sport was fading from our lives until we had our first chance to ski behind a direct drive (and slalom course).  It’s quite a different experience.

• I/O as better on rough lakes.  Water can easily come over the bow on a direct drive.
• Hole shots are much worse on most I/O’s as they rarely are powered and propped like a DD
• The wakes are a bit worse, but also a bit different.  Often harder and wider, but that depends on speed and rope length.
• DD track very well. If you are strong and heavy, you can easily fish-tale an I/O.  That’s more of a factor in the course and less for open water.
• I believe I/O’s use less gas.
• DD are simpler boats and more reliable…most of the time.
• If you have young kids, it’s nice to not have the prop so close to the platform.  +1 for DD.

If it’s your first family boat, get something used.  Then you will have spent less figuring out what you really like to do with it and can spend more on your inevitable second family boat!

What is your budget?  If you are Canadian, you could look at the new J-crafts being produced.  I don’t know what they cost, but they have tiny wakes and are bigger than the OG J-crafts. @summerski

 

 

Edited February 16, 2023 by Laz

[Reider]

There is some awesome advice in here, thanks all. Budget is max $30k. I have looked for j crafts but they are much more.

all the feedback on outboards, it’s a hard no by wife and she barely has an opinion on the rest of the options. 

The 2 lakes we go on are both small and don’t see very rough waters, so having an I/o to handle more chop doesn’t matter too much to me. If it gets that choppy we won’t put the boat in anyways.

the leading I/o I see come up is usually a 2009-2012 sea Ray 185. There are a few DD that could work, but more like early 2000s. 2001 Tige 21i is an option right now. If I do go with an I/o, I’ll be sure to get the best prop available for hole shots.  That research is for another day… 
 

Im going to see if I can check a few out. Unfortunately there won’t be any test drives for another couple months, but hoping to have a good idea exactly of what I’m after come spring and ice melts!

[aupatking]

That Tige is a great boat. If you do look towards DD boats, Mastercraft stopped using wood in the hulls in 1984, Malibu sometime near that an Nautique in 93. The rest, I don’t know.  That is always a major factor for me, with my ski boats and my fishing boats. 

As was stated earlier, I/Os may have a very big wake at speeds you would be teaching kids to ski, so test them out if possible. I can beach my SN on my river as long as the drop off gets deep enough to keep the running gear out of the sand and it’s usually a non-issue. 

Edit: because I/Os can trim and turn at trim, you have universal joints and gimbles that can wear excessively, therefore a lot more moving parts that may need maintenance and replacement that DDs and OBs don’t have.

Edited February 16, 2023 by aupatking

[Andre]

30k is a very good budget! Wife,3 kids,smaller lake and good skiing: you could look at older Prostar 205. Fuel injection,no wood,plenty of space,very nice ski wake,open bow,well within your 30k.You can beach a DD,just be more careful.Big swim platform for the kids to get in and out,more important you and the kids will enjoy skiing it way more then I\O for sure.Just the sound of the bullet proof  V8 is reassuring,easier to drive for the wife and no trim to mess around for her.You may have a couples of seat skins to replace at that age but still very sexy boat for sure! Very solid construction too! Good luck!

Here's one to give you an idea...

You gonna have a dock or tow it every time?

https://www.ski-it-again.com/php/skiitagain.php?endless=summer&topic=Search&category=Boat_3Event&postid=65886

Edited February 16, 2023 by Andre

[liquid d]

https://www.facebook.com/skimachineusa/   

Glastron Ski Machine is the one to get if you don't get a DD.....but DD is the way to go. Get an older malibu with open bow. Resale will always be there.

[MDB1056]

11 hours ago, aupatking said:

Mastercraft stopped using wood in the hulls in 1984,

Actually it was late 83. Early 83's had wood but later 83's did not. Easy to tell the difference just looking under the engine cover. I still have a late 83 in the garage .  

[Clydesdale]

Agree with The recommendations for direct drive.  For $30k you should be able to find something pretty nice with speed control (a serious advantage)..    if you absolutely must go the I/o route I would steer you towards stingray.   Not too bad to ski behind compared with others.

[UWSkier]

30k will get you a nice turn of the century Malibu Sunsetter LXi.  If you have the room for a 22' boat, I'd go that way.

[Drew_Wright_OBXtoFl]

I’d go with an outboard before the I/O. I had something close to this Glastron and I loved it back in the 70’s. But the DD are hard to beat as everyone is encouraging you. When I got back into skiing I worried to about water depth where I lived. I ski on a shallow water way and at my dock I have less than waist deep water. I now have a X46 5500 lb. Wakeboard boat in addition to a Prostar I dock here. It u are careful u can navigate shallow water 

[braindamage]

I’d look for a 1999-2004 Malibu Wakesetter VLX. Some have the diamond hull that can ski almost as good as a DD from that era. 

I had a 2000 Sunsetter LXi. It is the best family DD ever if you ask me. 
 

if skiing is your primary focus, then look for a Sunsetter. If family is the first priority, then go with the Wakesetter VLX.
 

I’m not sure if this has the diamond hull, but I’d look into it.

Wakesetter VLX

Edited February 17, 2023 by braindamage

[elr]

Having the propeller up underneath the hull is a benefit of the DD especially if you have smaller children - my boys were afraid of the prop on the outboard we started with and that fear went away with the DD.  Also it is easier to get the kids ready with the large swim step.

[LOTW]

Here ya go!
I don't know much about them but all fiberglass construction, Merc engine, new carb and cheap! The interior is rough but use it for a year and decide your next move. You'll be absolutely PUMPED that you went DD over I/O! It may not have a great wake but gets you in the game. at worse, the wake will be equal to or better than I/O. Lots of room and thru hull exhaust.

 

1995 Sea Ray Ski Ray | Powerboats & Motorboats | Calgary | Kijiji

[FSSPCat]

Hey @Reider I’m in Calgary too. Where are you boating mostly?

[S1Pitts]

5 hours ago, LOTW said:

Here ya go!
I don't know much about them but all fiberglass construction, Merc engine, new carb and cheap! The interior is rough but use it for a year and decide your next move. You'll be absolutely PUMPED that you went DD over I/O! It may not have a great wake but gets you in the game. at worse, the wake will be equal to or better than I/O. Lots of room and thru hull exhaust.

 

1995 Sea Ray Ski Ray | Powerboats & Motorboats | Calgary | Kijiji

The Ski Ray is a pretty decent boat built by Sea Ray. Typical that wakes get better as the line shortens but the 22 -off at 36mph is as good as any of that era. We ski occassionally with a guy who has this hull as well as the outboard version for barefooting.

[Reider]

Hey thanks for that option and info on thr ski Ray! Probably looking at some thing a bit newer with an open bow, but this looks like an amazing boat. Just not as family friendly. My plan is to ski, but there is a lot of younger kids that we want to tow and have in the boat too. There are a couple Malibu response, early 2000s out there that look good 

we have a trailer by crimson lake and a family cottage out in MB. We were at crimson a bunch last year and I stared at a flat lake close to 10 times, so don’t waste any good ski days this year! 

[BraceMaker]

I've been down this route broke a leg skiing behind an I/O.  You really just have to define what you need vs. what you want vs. what you can afford.  I believe firmly that on larger lakes the best solution is the biggest most expensive pontoon boat you can afford.  Many of them you can pull tubes, pull skiers, pull multiple skiers, fit all the guests, hang out all day.  Some can go 50+ MPH and many you can slalom ski behind.  If you have 100 grand to spend just buy the most boss pontoon boat you can afford with a pylon and you can ski behind that.

If your desire to slalom behind the boat is high enough then buy a purposeful ski boat.  But if you are on water where you think hey I need to fit more people and I need a bigger boat and its rough.  Then just get as much pontoon as you can get with the features you need to waterski behind it.

[Vernon Reeve]

I used to have a Seaswirl Spyder which had a decent hole shot and great wake. And it looked sporty. Great boat and loved it for learning to slalom.  Now I have a 2003 Malibu Reponse LXI and would never go back to an I/O.   We use the bungee cord thing for anchoring the boat off the beach, where you can pull the boat up to the beach to unload, and then let go to allow the bungee to pull it out further from the beach for anchoring.  But for quick loading/offloading we just back the boat up to the beach in about 3 feet of water and got on or off the platform from there.  The other benefits of the inboard have already been stated.

[Reider]

Hey everyone. This thread was a huge help. I’ve narrowed it down to DD due to all the advantages above, and landed on 3 options. 
-2001 sunsetter lxi (corvette eng). 430 hours. Oldest and most expensive, but gets best reviews and largest of the 3 which is good for the kids. Also really well kept 

-2007 Moomba outback. 330 hours and Cheapest option. Smaller and not a malibu. Good condition and comes with extra toys 

-2004 response lxi. 840 hours but well kept. Concerned about size and hours but really nice 

leaning towards the sunsetter but not sure if the other options would be better as there newer, and maybe cheaper. I would think they all work great for my level of skiing. Think the sunsetter would be good to learn to surf too as it has the wedge. 

keen to make a purchase but a bit indecisive. Any help, opinions is very welcome! 
 

thanks! 

 

 

[Ski_Dad]

@ReiderI have a Sunsetter LXI with LS1 corvette engine.  We have a family of 5 and we all ski it except my wife (boat driver).   The LS engine keeps the weight down and super easy to winterize.  It's really good on gas but does require premium.  My ski buddy has an 05 Response LXI - i ski that regularly as well and they ski really close.  If you have any direct questions feel free to DM me.

[Andre]

Does all SSLXI have the diamond hull ?

[Reider]

Yes! I’ve heard that is key 

I believe the 04 response LXI does as well (unless I’m missing something)

don’t know about the Moomba hull

 

[Vernon Reeve]

I've had both, but like my 03 Response LXI better.  It's a little smaller, and probably because of this, it's easier to maneuver when getting the rope to the skier.  Plus it can do bat turns.  Also, doesn't make sense, but it worked better for surfing.  Probably because the Sunsetter LXI had the lower rear portion of the hull cut out, so wasn't able to stick a wedge there to redirect the prop wash for surfing.  And finally, I like the wake better on the Reponse lxi, even though the wake was fine on the Sunsetter.  The extra room in the Sunsetter was nice however.  Both are great boats.

[fu_man]

All 3 are good options.  I believe the Sunsetter will be a bit longer at 22 ft but the the RLXI and Moomba will be wider at 95" vs 93".  I have owned an Outback for about 10 years and it is a very capable boat.  Fewer appointments than the Malibus, but was an AWSA approved tow boat.  I regularly ski between my Outback and an 03 RLXI for tricking and slalom -22 and -28.  The differences are not too drastic.  The open bow on the Outback is very usable; equal to if not slightly bigger than the RLXI.  

[Ski_Dad]

1 hour ago, Andre said:

Does all SSLXI have the diamond hull ?

1999 - 2004 do

[03RLXi]

How to identify the diamond hulls https://www.themalibucrew.com/index.php?/forums/topic/18040-diamond-vs-wake-hulls/

[UWSkier]

You mentioned kids.  How old?  Plan on them learning to drive it?  The additional freeboard of the Sunsetter LXI as well as the bow design is more conducive to having kids aboard AND teaching them to drive it.  If there's any weight at all in the front of an '03-06 RLXi, it's super easy to stuff the nose underwater even going back into your own wake at idle.  

[Reider]

Twins that are 6, so they are a ways  away from driving, but hoping the boat is good for another 10 years!

The deeper bow is a big reason we are leaning towards the sunsetter. The 2 lakes we are on are both small and don’t get big chop, but still would be hesitant to have them in the bow if the moomba and response ride that low. 

[chrislandy]

@Reider I had a 1996 205 MasterCraft for 20 years, personally I never had an issue family and kit in the boat (with a tower), the wakes were good for general skiing, wakeboarding, tubing, tricking etc.

The bow was relatively deep, but I still would never let any kids in the bow whilst underway.

The skegs were quite a way back so you could beach it if you wanted and if the beach slope isn't too shallow (which we did regularly as there was no other realistic option at one of the lakes we frequent)

 

We'd still have it if the kids hadn't started tournament skiing, although I would possibly look at a 205V or one of the X series if I was looking for a good allrounder. Plus they won't break the budget and are easily maintained at home or on the lake.

[lpskier]

Well, here’s a curve ball: I’m thinking of selling my 2015 200 (with 230.3 hours) and buying a center console family boat. I bet I’ve skied 200 sets since I skied last behind my own boat. So last weekend, I started shopping. Found a 24’ center console with a 300 hp outboard, and a ski pylon.  Perfect for the whole family ( five at present, soon to be six) and capable of going far enough out to sea to reach the Gulf Stream to fish. Nothing fancy. $150 grand. WTF??!!