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200 won’t start


jimski
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2011 200 won’t start cranks overbuy won’t fire.

replaced fuel filter and fuel control cell filter. Checked fuel control cell wires and can’t find any thing no fuses popped.and comes up with this code.

any ideas 

thanks 

BD6DECBD-71C0-46C8-B054-9CC2903DEB88.jpeg

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4 minutes ago, jimski said:

2011 200 won’t start cranks overbuy won’t fire.

replaced fuel filter and fuel control cell filter. Checked fuel control cell wires and can’t find any thing no fuses popped.and comes up with this code.

any ideas 

thanks 

BD6DECBD-71C0-46C8-B054-9CC2903DEB88.jpeg

Just a guess, does the 200 have a two stage pump setup, i.e. a low pressure and high pressure pump?  Seems maybe one of them isn't getting power?  Do you have a fuel pressure gauge you could slap on there to check?

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If you can hear the fuel system power up before starting, it's probably not the problem. Could be coil system, but likley to be the crank pisition sensor. Especially if it started one day but not the next.

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low pressure pump will fail, and will be silent of course.  high pressure pump will still come on and make noise.  there's a pressure test port on the fuel cannister you can access for testing.  check the circuit breakers on the back of the engine.  if the low pressure pump has died, it will pop the cb.  get a spark tester to make sure you have coil output, then use it on a lead wire to a spark plug to make sure the spark is getting through the rotor/cap connection  when Gordon's 200 lost spark a couple of years ago at 2500 hours, we had to buy a new coil with bracket to get the module that had failed

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SPN 1348, FMI 5 is typically caused by a failed fuel pump relay. Since the code is for pump #2, that's the relay for the high pressure pump inside the FCC. Pump assembly 1 is the low pressure fuel pump. Both relays are mounted on the engine power panel. I think the relay for pump 1 and 2 are the same. If so, you can swap them and see if the code changes to pump 1. That's an easy way verify for sure it's the relay. It's less common, but if its not the relay it can be a wiring harness issue. 

Edited by jpwhit
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Hard to keep straight which ones have 1 and which have 2 relays.

Given the additional code for the main power relay, I think you're having an issue with power getting to all parts of the engine power box. Which would also explain the lack of spark. Could also be a grounding issue in that same area. My suggestion is to use a meter and start checking you have 12V at the right places in the engine power box. At the fuse locations is a good place to start. You can also check the fuses are good more thoroughly with them removed. By check their resistance with a meter. 

With a fuse pulled out you should have 12V on one side of the fuse connection. With the Relay's pulled out, you should have 12 on one of the 2 relay coil pins. The other relay coil pin goes to the ECU and will be pulled to ground by the ECU when it wants to energize the relay. That pin may float somewhere between ground and 12v when the ECU is not trying to energize the relay and will be very close to 0V when the ECU is trying to energize the relay. Such as during starting. 

Where you attach the negative lead of the meter can help determine if you have a grounding issue. It's best to initially use the negative terminal of the battery. If everything reads correctly using that ground point, then do the measurements again using the engine block as the ground point. If that reads correctly, then repeat a 3rd time using a ground point somewhere inside the power box. Without being at a boat to look, I can't really remember where to find a ground point inside the engine power box. But if there is an obvious ground bar, then that's a good place. If the reading change as you change your ground point. Then there is a problem with the ground where you get different reading. A couple of tenths of a volt difference is ok. More than that indicates an issue. 

Just to make sure, you have checked that the safety lanyard / switch is ok? I don't think that'll cause the relay open engine codes, but it will kill the spark. 

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I'm assuming this is a PCM EX343. If so, that engine is known for having the distributor cap and rotor button wear out and cause ignition issues. If you haven't changed those recently, you probably should. That distributor also tends to have issues with the ears that the distributor cap screws thread into breaking off. If you have that issue, Dorman makes a plate to deal with the problem. Link to it on Amazon below. 

This wouldn't explain the engine codes you're seeing, but it's a common reason for no spark on that engine. 

https://www.amazon.com/Dorman-90449-Distribution-Repair-Plate/dp/B00BQAJNWO/ref=sr_1_1?crid=2QNCXCAAWQNX8&keywords=dorman+90449+vortec+distributor+repair+plate&qid=1674531455&sprefix=Dorman+dis%2Caps%2C89&sr=8-1

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If you have or are willing to buy a fuel pressure gauge, then checking the fuel pressure while starting will quickly rule out if you have any type of fuel pump / fuel delivery issue. Pressure should be in the 50-60 psi range. 

You may be dealing with two issues. The engine codes may be due to an intermittent or transient issue that's not actually causing your no-start condition. Just something to keep in mind. 

I agree with @aupatking, the safety lanyard switches tend to fail much more frequently than ignition coils. And it's easy to rule that out by jumping the switch rather than having to buy a part. I've never actually had to replace an engine coil on a vortec engine. My impression is the electronic ignition modules fail more often than the coil. Not that the coils never fail. 

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Thanks guys 

I did hard wire the kill switch.

have been swapping around relays and  checking for power. I will put the fuel pressure gauge on next .
I did find another relay under the dash. I will look into this a little more.

 

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Edited by jimski
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I think the relay under the dash is a main power relay driven by the keypad. If that's correct, it'll click when you push the start button the first or second time, whenever the 2nd blue light comes on on the keypad. Things like the Linc display will power up when that relay energizes. 

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Jim,

I know you said you replaced cap earlier this year.  However, assuming this is the flat style cap, there was a run of bad ones.  I had one with inexplicable ignition behavior and at the time did not know of this defect.  Internally, the caps were allowing "Cross contamination (my words)" of electricity.  

If you're ready to start throwing parts at it, I'd do a new cap (definitely marine....someone said earlier its the same as auto...that at definitely not the case), and also a crank position sensor which was already suggested early on.  I had a no fire situation just a month ago that was CPS.  

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I replace my rotor and cap, probably twice a year. It starts doing the same “turning over but not firing” and I used to chase fuel or electrical system. Now I go to cap and rotor first and it solves my problem. I will say, it usually runs, just real crappy at 30, a little better but still crappy at 32, and mostly good at 34 just prior to not wanting to start.

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