200 won’t start

[jimski]

2011 200 won’t start cranks overbuy won’t fire.

replaced fuel filter and fuel control cell filter. Checked fuel control cell wires and can’t find any thing no fuses popped.and comes up with this code.

any ideas 

thanks 

[UWSkier]

4 minutes ago, jimski said:

2011 200 won’t start cranks overbuy won’t fire.

replaced fuel filter and fuel control cell filter. Checked fuel control cell wires and can’t find any thing no fuses popped.and comes up with this code.

any ideas 

thanks 

Just a guess, does the 200 have a two stage pump setup, i.e. a low pressure and high pressure pump?  Seems maybe one of them isn't getting power?  Do you have a fuel pressure gauge you could slap on there to check?

[ETskier]

If you can hear the fuel system power up before starting, it's probably not the problem. Could be coil system, but likley to be the crank pisition sensor. Especially if it started one day but not the next.

[RichardDoane]

low pressure pump will fail, and will be silent of course.  high pressure pump will still come on and make noise.  there's a pressure test port on the fuel cannister you can access for testing.  check the circuit breakers on the back of the engine.  if the low pressure pump has died, it will pop the cb.  get a spark tester to make sure you have coil output, then use it on a lead wire to a spark plug to make sure the spark is getting through the rotor/cap connection  when Gordon's 200 lost spark a couple of years ago at 2500 hours, we had to buy a new coil with bracket to get the module that had failed

[jimski]

Thanks Richard 

[jimski]

@RichardDoaneno spark to the plugs 

this engine has no circuit breakers on the back of the motor 

[jpwhit]

SPN 1348, FMI 5 is typically caused by a failed fuel pump relay. Since the code is for pump #2, that's the relay for the high pressure pump inside the FCC. Pump assembly 1 is the low pressure fuel pump. Both relays are mounted on the engine power panel. I think the relay for pump 1 and 2 are the same. If so, you can swap them and see if the code changes to pump 1. That's an easy way verify for sure it's the relay. It's less common, but if its not the relay it can be a wiring harness issue. 

Edited January 23, 2023 by jpwhit

[jimski]

Only one fuel pump relay

 

 

 

[jimski]

If it’s a bad relay or wiring harness issue would the coil quit sending spark 

 

[jimski]

Power relay code on here now 

[jpwhit]

Hard to keep straight which ones have 1 and which have 2 relays.

Given the additional code for the main power relay, I think you're having an issue with power getting to all parts of the engine power box. Which would also explain the lack of spark. Could also be a grounding issue in that same area. My suggestion is to use a meter and start checking you have 12V at the right places in the engine power box. At the fuse locations is a good place to start. You can also check the fuses are good more thoroughly with them removed. By check their resistance with a meter. 

With a fuse pulled out you should have 12V on one side of the fuse connection. With the Relay's pulled out, you should have 12 on one of the 2 relay coil pins. The other relay coil pin goes to the ECU and will be pulled to ground by the ECU when it wants to energize the relay. That pin may float somewhere between ground and 12v when the ECU is not trying to energize the relay and will be very close to 0V when the ECU is trying to energize the relay. Such as during starting. 

Where you attach the negative lead of the meter can help determine if you have a grounding issue. It's best to initially use the negative terminal of the battery. If everything reads correctly using that ground point, then do the measurements again using the engine block as the ground point. If that reads correctly, then repeat a 3rd time using a ground point somewhere inside the power box. Without being at a boat to look, I can't really remember where to find a ground point inside the engine power box. But if there is an obvious ground bar, then that's a good place. If the reading change as you change your ground point. Then there is a problem with the ground where you get different reading. A couple of tenths of a volt difference is ok. More than that indicates an issue. 

Just to make sure, you have checked that the safety lanyard / switch is ok? I don't think that'll cause the relay open engine codes, but it will kill the spark. 

[jimski]

Seem to have power every where I check fuse box, relays, both d fuel pumps.

still no spark out of the coil.

might pick up a new coil tomorrow and try it.

 

[jpwhit]

I'm assuming this is a PCM EX343. If so, that engine is known for having the distributor cap and rotor button wear out and cause ignition issues. If you haven't changed those recently, you probably should. That distributor also tends to have issues with the ears that the distributor cap screws thread into breaking off. If you have that issue, Dorman makes a plate to deal with the problem. Link to it on Amazon below. 

This wouldn't explain the engine codes you're seeing, but it's a common reason for no spark on that engine. 

https://www.amazon.com/Dorman-90449-Distribution-Repair-Plate/dp/B00BQAJNWO/ref=sr_1_1?crid=2QNCXCAAWQNX8&keywords=dorman+90449+vortec+distributor+repair+plate&qid=1674531455&sprefix=Dorman+dis%2Caps%2C89&sr=8-1

[jpwhit]

The cap and rotor are not marine specific. So it's fine to get them at an auto parts store or order them from Amazon. 

[jimski]

Thanks @jpwhit Yes I did the cap and rotor this year. It still should have spark out of the coil.

I checked the plug going into the coil an no power at it. 

[aupatking]

I’d hard wire around the kill switch first, just to verify it’s not the easy stuff. As said above, I don’t know that you’d get codes for that, but it will definitely cut power to them

[jpwhit]

If you have or are willing to buy a fuel pressure gauge, then checking the fuel pressure while starting will quickly rule out if you have any type of fuel pump / fuel delivery issue. Pressure should be in the 50-60 psi range. 

You may be dealing with two issues. The engine codes may be due to an intermittent or transient issue that's not actually causing your no-start condition. Just something to keep in mind. 

I agree with @aupatking, the safety lanyard switches tend to fail much more frequently than ignition coils. And it's easy to rule that out by jumping the switch rather than having to buy a part. I've never actually had to replace an engine coil on a vortec engine. My impression is the electronic ignition modules fail more often than the coil. Not that the coils never fail. 

[jimski]

Thanks guys 

I did hard wire the kill switch.

have been swapping around relays and  checking for power. I will put the fuel pressure gauge on next .
I did find another relay under the dash. I will look into this a little more.

 

Edited January 24, 2023 by jimski

[jpwhit]

I think the relay under the dash is a main power relay driven by the keypad. If that's correct, it'll click when you push the start button the first or second time, whenever the 2nd blue light comes on on the keypad. Things like the Linc display will power up when that relay energizes. 

[Jody_Seal]

did the engine get tested independently of the boat? 

[jimski]

What do you mean by that @Jody_Seal

[jimski]

58 psi fuel pressure. How do you know if the low pressure fuel pump is working.

checked about everything I can.off to the shop I guess 

thanks everyone 

[Jody_Seal]

@jimski

harbor freight remote start switch. a pair of leads to hot wire engine and run un plugged from dash and hull wiring. 

if you can make the engine run as it should isolated from the boat you know the issue is not engine and can move on to isolating the problem elsewhere in the boats system.

[jimski]

Got ya 

thanks 

[buechsr]

Jim,

I know you said you replaced cap earlier this year.  However, assuming this is the flat style cap, there was a run of bad ones.  I had one with inexplicable ignition behavior and at the time did not know of this defect.  Internally, the caps were allowing "Cross contamination (my words)" of electricity.  

If you're ready to start throwing parts at it, I'd do a new cap (definitely marine....someone said earlier its the same as auto...that at definitely not the case), and also a crank position sensor which was already suggested early on.  I had a no fire situation just a month ago that was CPS.  

[Lovell]

Last spring the 343 in my 196 was doing something similar. Changed everything. Turned out to be the Cap, something that I had just recently replaced.

[aupatking]

I replace my rotor and cap, probably twice a year. It starts doing the same “turning over but not firing” and I used to chase fuel or electrical system. Now I go to cap and rotor first and it solves my problem. I will say, it usually runs, just real crappy at 30, a little better but still crappy at 32, and mostly good at 34 just prior to not wanting to start.

[RichardDoane]

if you have power to the coil, and no spark output from the coil, then the problem is usually the module that mounts on the coil bracket, only available with a coil/bracket/module assembly from PCM, I've never been able to find just a module in the after market

if you have spark output from the coil, but nothing getting through the cap/rotor and to the spark plug, then you need a fresh cap and rotor, just make sure to get a good brand, we like the AC Delco stuff for anything GM

there's a screen built into the base of the distributor that allows it to "breathe", make sure it's clear by blowing it out with shop air pressure, we see a lot of restricted screens in the automotive world, usually associated with lots of white "crust" built up in the distributor

as for power to the fuel pumps, get you dvom out and check powers and grounds

[Jody_Seal]

I have seen a number of Excalibur dizzy housings crack. you can install as many caps on them as you want but they will not perform till the dizzy is replaced. after market dizzy is usually a aluminum or metal . summit or jegs will have them.

another item that will cause issues like dizzy failure is the dbw potentiometer mounted on the engine. the housing on them will crack and cause drive ability / run issues. the early ones can be rebuilt but pcm does not support them and a new Livorsi unit as well as ecm update will be the process.

[jimski]

Thanks @Jody_Sealand @RichardDoane

 

i checked everything I could think of.

replaced the CPS with one I had.

completely  gone over the distributor .

have 12 v every where there should be going into the coil and the module.

5 volts at the CPS and into the distributor. But no spark out of the coil.

just waiting on the coil and module from wizard lake marine.

I do have a tiny bit of corrosion under the coil module.

if you weren’t looking carefully you’d pass right over it.

 

[buechsr]

bad coil wire?  tried new cap yet?

[aupatking]

Hey @Jody_Seal, the potentiometer issue would effect the computer, so if it will not run unplugged from the head unit, would that disqualify the potentiometer as a possibility? Does seem like hotwiring it to run independent would be the way to eliminate half the possibilities.

edit: if it’s an open bow, just forget fixing it and sell it to me. 

Edited February 3, 2023 by aupatking

[jimski]

I put a new potentiometer in May be two or three years ago and updated the ecm

 

Edited February 4, 2023 by jimski

[jimski]

@RichardDoane you nailed it.

new coil module vroom vroom 

thanks for every one’s input 

[aupatking]

@jimskiI’ve been stalking this thread every time I see it has a new post hoping to see the one you just posted! Glad to hear you’re up and running again 

[skialex]

@aupatkingi had written something similar below, but forgot to press the post button.@jimski I was coming back and back to read that you have found the problem and that your motor is running again. 

[sandvikslandhotmail.com]

I changed the sparkplugs, rotor, cap and all 4 sensors when our SN 200 -16 5.7 showed lacked power and it was the trick!

Bo Sweden