Denali Update

[Adam Caldwell]

Ballers! 

Just a quick update!  We are still deep in the process of evolving a new design for 2023/2024, I do have a just a few remaining skis left on the rack and with just 7 graphic sheets left to build with.   

If you have any ski buddies looking for a killer deal before the next design is released, this is it!  Our workshop is very small (under 1000sqft!) and I need to free up the space ASAP! 

Use code 2022 c85 Closeout at checkout - denaliskis.com for 60% off a ski order!

The c85 has been HUGELY successful not only for the intense short-line skiers at 34 and 36mph, but we have also seen tremendous success for both men and women at speeds as low as 28mph and long line.  In addition, we have seen many 200+ 28-38off tournament skiers dropping to 32mph for the first time LOVE the extra width and support provided the c85s bigger & stiffer platform underfoot.  

Feel free to PM me with any questions and more info.

Thanks!

 

[Horton]

@adamhcaldwelldo you have an XXL or XXXL? 

[Adam Caldwell]

Unfortunately @horton the C85 stops at XL size.  

However, I can say that the development on the new Denali c-buoyslayer9000^2 is all happening on what theoretically would be an XXL size.  And the XXXL is definitely next on the list.   

My biggest fear for 2023 is offending someone when suggesting a size (XX or XXXL size).  That being said, I'm currently entertaining some new sizing nomenclature....(Plus now that HO has adopted the terminology, its not as cool anymore😂.)

Any creative ideas will be considered....but currently entertaining the following

Ski Size Nomenclature
Traditional	Denali	2023+ Denali
71	XXL	Terra
70	XXL	Giga
69	XL	Mega
68	Large	Kilo
67	Medium	Milli
66	Small	Micro
65	X-Small	Nano
64	XXS	Pico

Edited January 19, 2023 by adamhcaldwell

[rico]

@Horton You can have mine when I order the new one

Edited January 19, 2023 by rico

[Horton]

@adamhcaldwellwhy wouldn't you just reset all the nomenclature with the C10,000 so guys that normally ride a 67 still ride a medium even if it is 8 in' wide? ( rename current XXXL to L or whatever)

[Vernon Reeve]

I would suggest keeping it traditional and making the sizes the same as the length (i.e L64, L65, . . . L71).

[AdamCord]

@ricowe have the XXXXXL for you

[jjackkrash]

Ouch.  That must sting.  

[LLUSA]

XXL-Lyman

[lpskier]

@Vernon ReeveAll Denali C-85s are 65”. They vary in width. Hence small, medium, etc. 

[Slalom.Steve]

@lpskier but there is some benefit to using terminology that more immediately "means something" to the average skier. So even though a "Denali 68" is still 65 inches, when someone see's "Denali 68", they would know (at least roughly) what size/weight that corresponds to in other manufacturers. Though then certainly the danger of confusion regarding the actually length comes back into play lol. What about:

6.4
6.5
6.6
etc? - so the medium would be size 6.7, large would be size 6.8, etc.

Kinda weird, sure, but trying to think outside the box for ways to express the unique "Denali sizes" that are more easily relatable to traditional sizes, while still being clear it's not the same thing.

[aupatking]

@SlalomSteve I get what you’re saying but, I really think that this sizing is fine, when you consider that they provide a size chart on their website. Maybe they just include the L=68 on the chart? I just think someone ordering a 68 receives a 65, then thinks they got the wrong ski shipped to them. 

[Horton]

seriously guys the old length paradigm is just marketing. if you called a ski "the 14" and said that guys weighing between 175 and 195 ride "the 14" and then I ride "the 14".

most key companies called it a 67" but length is really irrelevant.

[Drago]

• Short 
• Tall 
• Grande 
• Venti 
• Trenta 
• Trenta double pump
• if you weigh 300# and @adamhcaldwellsays you need a XXL and you're offended, well ....

[AdamCord]

FYI this is a 39@36 pass from this fall riding a C95 prototype that would be equivalent to an XXL size c85. It is WIDE. There is secret sauce in there that is letting us run a much wider ski and get the benefits that come with that without the negatives.

 

https://www.instagram.com/reel/CjJnDeYg7Ml/?igshid=YWJhMjlhZTc=

Edited January 20, 2023 by AdamCord

[thager]

So, "most key companies called it a 67" but length is really irrelevant." Is @Horton finally admitting it is surface area?😂

[Horton]

@thager I finally figured it out. You are Chipman!

[Adam Caldwell]

Believe it or not,  the size is irrelevant in terms of width and length and surface area.   The industry has trained people that a 170lber should ride a 66” ski.  Whatever that means.   I think it is a limiting belief for both ski designers AND skiers.

What is relevant when it comes to sizing skis is the performance characteristics built into the ski.  The things you cant necessarily see with the naked eye.

For example, its possible to build a 66” ski with a terrible flex and torsion pattern with imbalanced surface area, lift distribution and induced drag characteristics and it could feel like riding at 70” and wont turn or drop in at the ball. OR, it can build it where it fees like a 60” ski that sinks, barely gets any width and folds you in half from being too soft, too stuck and too slow for opposite reasons.

Sure, traditionally with the norm of carbon copy skis and designs, a lot of skis are extremely similar.  And because of that we are custom to think that a 66/67” is the middle of the road and appropriate size.  In reality, all that matters is a skier is riding what will produce the most buoys for them at their given level and speed/ability, and physical composition.

I’ve come to find that skier height is almost as big of a factor in sizing as weight. For example, I have a 210lb 5’6” guy on a medium at 34, and a then another 190lber at 6’3 on an XL - Same skill level, but vastly different builds.   So then you must also consider body composition and where someone's COM lands and how they utilize it when they ski.

At the end of the day, what matters is we have a way to convey differences in range of products offered and how that will align that with your overall performance and ability riding it.

So far I like @AdamCordCords recommendation of calling the XXXL the "Krispy Kreme"... 

Edited January 20, 2023 by adamhcaldwell

[Horton]

Chipman reading the above post from his bunker

    

[dchristman]

I love my My 166 sq inch Zepto. Adam gave me 60% off a Pico.

[Andre]

2 guys selling their 2022 on SIA for more money then the new ones at 60% off...

Good luck to them getting a sale.🥺

[jedgell]

Ordered mine today!  Now I have to wait for the loooong MT winter to end…

[VONMAN]

Well I was wondering when this would happen. But knowing the Denali history it will be a better design. The C-85 has been the smoothest, fastest, best turning and easiest ski I've ever owned. I let four skiers demo ride my C-85, 2 were beginners and 2 were 32 off skiers. They all came away very impressed how user friendly it was. One my students was so impressed with it he showed up one day with his own used C-85 he bought off Ski-it-again. His skiing has improved dramatically in part because of its neutral/user friendly feel. So as long as the Two Adams keep designing and building them, I will be buying and skiing on them. My student Will, with his small and my large C-85.

[BlueSki]

Excited to see the next generation. The C85 set a very high bar for the Denali c-buoyslayer9000^2

[Rednucleus]

Just placed my order; I'm always up for a good deal - now the hard part - had hip replaced 3 weeks ago so can't try it out till June. I will be keeping @AdamCordbusy at HT this season!! 

[Sethro]

I’ve always been hesitant because I was afraid it’d be too small. Even though I was assured at 6’5” and 235ish lately that the XL C85 would be big enough. I’d sure like to try one of those XXXL if that’s what you decide to call it. I have a couple of neoprene products with that size designation so I’m not scared. 😜

[hacker]

Wow! Mediums are sold out!😭

[rodb]

Trying to order a medium looks like they aren’t available 

[travtitle]

Got one! 

[Adam Caldwell]

This guy gets it!

View this post on Instagram

A post shared by ComedySesh (@comedy_sesh)

[Bruce_Butterfield]

I'll take a MegaMagaTerra Krispy Creme and Cord's 4 Tequilla shot fin settings😁

[Adam Caldwell]

@Bruce_Butterfield You might like to play with the Pandora fin on that setup also...

[AdamCord]

View this post on Instagram

A post shared by Denali Skis (@denaliwaterskis)

wow check out the size of this guy’s hydraulic force generator 😆

[rico]

@AdamCord I am on a diet, aiming to downsize. I am more worried about the color of the ski 🙂

[AdamCord]

@rico well our one and only graphics supplier closed shop a couple months ago so I hope you like black.

[swbca]

On 1/20/2023 at 5:42 AM, AdamCord said:

FYI this is a 39@36 pass from this fall riding a C95 prototype that would be equivalent to an XXL size c85. It is WIDE. There is secret sauce in there that is letting us run a much wider ski and get the benefits that come with that without the negatives.

Older skiers skiing 30 and 32mph find the 22off bump behind late model Nautiques making their opening 22off pass in tournaments very difficult because of the extreme loft at the wake.     Before buying a C85m I had switched from a D3 68" to a 67" to reduce wake loft.
Has anyone tested what your newer wider skis do a 30-32mph 22off at the Nautique wake compared to a "large" C85 ?

[RAWSki]

Are bindings centered or offset like T-Gas?

[AdamCord]

@swbca thanks for pointing that out, we'll definitely be paying more attention to that with our test team moving forward. My first thought is that it should be softer through the wakes as this ski will lift and accelerate a lot earlier than a normal width ski, which will let the ski start to come out of load a lot earlier. - Take that for what it's worth because I haven't tested that theory at those speeds and line lengths yet...

 

@RAWSkiThere's PLENTY of real estate on the sides of the bindings so it's definitely worth trying!

[Jaypro]

Adam, or Adams, glad Caldwell is doing well!  Any hype on the new ski for the Ballers?!

[AdamCord]

@Jayproas often happens in development with us we felt like we were pretty well done with the ski development…until a few conversations led us down the path of discovery…again.

We are getting closer to having a production ready ski, and the concepts we’ve uncovered in the past couple months have been SUPER exciting. Suffice to say the discoveries we’ve made with ski technique, looking at what top skiers are doing and what has been successful in our skiing and those we’ve coached, is starting to really coalesce with what we are asking the ski to do, and how we design the ski to make those technique improvements more automatic. So without saying anything specific, we’ve made some really big leaps this winter in designing a ski that will make a skier more automatically ski like a better skier…because the ski naturally puts you in the right positions behind the boat and through the 2nd wake swing.

I realize that all probably sounds like hype BS, but I can honestly say I haven’t been this excited about a new ski in a very long time 😁😁

[Jaypro]

Thanks, @AdamCord, I can't wait to see the ADAM BOMB drop!

[jtompkins120]

@adamhcaldwell are there any small c85s left? I’m on a c75 small and am really interested in the 85.

[RichardDoane]

@jtompkins120  I’ve got a medium if you’d like to demo it, just pay the shipping and be careful. Send me a PM if you’re interested. 

[Ski_Dad]

On 3/30/2023 at 7:22 PM, jtompkins120 said:

@adamhcaldwell are there any small c85s left? I’m on a c75 small and am really interested in the 85.

saw this today

https://www.ski-it-again.com/php/skiitagain.php?endless=summer&topic=Search&category=Slalom&postid=66281

[Horton]

a little history