How many Direct Drive’s are manufactured each year??

[Guest]

Hey y’all! Between MasterCraft, Nautique, and Malibu… How many direct drives are manufactured each year? I was told the number was around 700 (industry wide). Seems extremely low? Is 700 accurate? Or total BS? Lol

[Mastercrafter]

In 2018 the MC factory tour told me it was about 300, and I’ve been told it’s less than 200 now. 700 seems about right.

[Horton]

My guess is less than 700. My understanding is most of them are MasterCraft then Nautique and just a few Malibu.

( that does to include 200s. I have no idea how many of those are made every year)

[BL_Skier]

Very interesting! Thanks guys

[ScarletArrow]

Not enough that’s for sure. Trying to find / buy a new or used boat is a real challenge.

[LeonL]

Are we talking all direct drives? Wake barges too?

[Mastercrafter]

@LeonL those are V-Drive ?

[GaryJanzig]

I am worried with Correct Craft buying up the competitors, most recently Indmar, it will become more expensive to restore/modify older boats. If gasoline engines get banned we are all screwed.

[Inboardfix]

@GaryJanzig other than PCM and Marine Power are there any other companies providing a non-cat bobtail (bolt on a trans, hook up gas, connect exhaust, do some wiring and you're ready to crank) engine? The last time I tried to buy a bobtail non-cat from Indmar it was not an option. Indmar hasn't even offered a non-cat calibration for ZO in years. I don't think CC's aquisitions will in any way affect costs involved in re-powering older boats.

As things are now re-powering older boats w/a non-cat PCM 6.0 409HP engine w/80A transmission costs less than a 200 HP Mercury outboard and as far as I know there are only 2 viable sources for non-cat bobtail repowers and only 1is ZO compatible. A bigger and more realistic concern is what happens when the 6.0 is NLA? Prices will really jump when DI engines are the only option, not to mention the extensive engine box modifications required.

[Horton]

When Scott Clack was still at Indmar he told me ( something like ) he had a whole warehouse full of rebuilt 5.7 engines. I do not recall the exact conversation but the point is there are engines out there.

[DW]

The crate engine market is quite large, hot rods, Saturday night cruisers, off roaders are all customers for this business. There are shops that build SBC's for the restorer so the core engine should/will be available for a while. The actual marinizing aspect (core plugs, spark containment components) will be the step needed to go from crate to boat compatibility and then adding the ancillaries to make a complete powertrain (trans, cooler, exh manifolds). Much of that stuff will be scavenge-able from the host. Add guys like @Jody_Seal and voila, our favorite vessels can be saved. ECU and good calibrations may be the hardest acquisition.

[DW]

Back on the topic of actual production numbers, less than a 1,000 ski boats compared to an industry power boat volume of 300k+ units and 13k units of wake boats is pretty small or sadly insignificant:https://www.nmma.org/press/article/23527

My takeaway, we should be really thankful at least the big three have a soft spot for us slalom / 3 event / barefoot addicts and somebody at each champions the continuation of not only making but improving them.

[ReallyGottaSki]

Scored an LM4 all aluminum 5.3 out of a trailblazer for 600its fogged and in the shed waiting as backup, or for a fresh projectWith a smartly chosen cam and springs, trunnion upgrade if desired, its good for 350-360hp all day longHorsepower has never been this cheap guys, get them while they last before they are turned into soda cans

[KRoundy]

13,000 wake barges? Ugh.

[buechsr]

@InboardfixI put one of these in a 196 3 years ago. Running good (after I replaced the crank sensor this past weekend that left me dead on the lake lol)https://marineengines4less.com/marine-engines/new-marine-engines/new-base-marine-engines/new-5.7l-vortec-marine-base-engine-replaces-years-1996-present/

[Hucklefin]

@KRoundy not hard to believe when looking at Mastercraft for example, 16:1 wake barge : ski boat model lineup ratio. Pretty easy to see what the industry is like. Not to mention obviously most manufacturers don't have a ski model at all.

Cheapest wake barge MSRP: $105k. Does that even include a trailer? Yikes.Prostar $121K. Sweet, man I am priced out of even buying a 2022 PS probably until at least 2050 lol. I don't even feel comfortable participating on Teamtalk these days because I feel like a poor that doesn't belong.

[jpwhit]

I guess it's winter doom and gloom time :) Personally, I try not to spend my mental energy thinking about all the ways my favorite activities could perish. Instead I try to focus my energy on what I can directly control to promote the things I like doing. For water skiing, that's using the off-season to make improvements to the lake house, fix up the boats, get plans on the family calendars to get as many friends and families committed to spending time at the lake this coming summer.

Whatever happens in the boat market, I'm confident I'll figure out a way to get what I need. Way too many variables to try and figure out what "may" go wrong.

Over the Thanksgiving Holidays, I taught 2 teenage family members to surf. Neither had ever done any watersports before. It takes some ingenuity and scheming to get a couple of teenagers into the water on a 55 degree day in November. That's where I spend my energy, on scheming to get what I want... Especially now that I achieved by life long goal of early retirement this past April.

[swc5150]

Let's say you're MC and there's $25k margin each for building 350 Prostars per year. That's still $8,750,000 to the company. I have no idea if my numbers are even close, but you don't just shut down near $10mill because the market is tiny. Good luck explaining that to the board.

[Mastercrafter]

From what I gather, mfg's are at capacity and they make more money on larger boats, so the correct business decision would actually be to stop building ski boats and use the manufacturing capacity to build barges.

[swc5150]

If that were accurate, I'd have to believe MCFT would halt the Prostar, otherwise why keep it around? Try explaining the need to keep a low-profit unit around to appease 350 annual buyers to the board. Maybe I'm way off, who knows?

[Inboardfix]

As the parent of 2 teenagers and 1 recent college graduate who knows everything, I always try to be very precise w/my comments. For this reason I defined a bobtail engine in my earlier post. It is not a crate engine nor a warehouse full of engines based on uncollaborated hearsay.

@buecher thank you for the link. That pricing is about $200 less than the crate 5.7 engines I purchased this past season (pre-pandemic those crate engines were approx $2500.00). As long as there is a doner engine purchasing a crate engine is a viable/less expensive option for a ZO compatible engine.

Sorry for veering off subject. Back on subject I agree w/@DW's comment we are lucky the manufacturers continue making and improving ski specific boats. Guessing real high and not including off shore direct drive boats: MC 250, CC 175, BU 75, all others 50 = 550. Really think a more accurate estimate is: MC 175, CC 125 (SN and 200 combined), BU 60, all others 20.

[Inboardfix]

Uncorroberated hearsay not uncollaborated.

[rockdog]

I'll bet Correct Craft are really happy they are being outsold by Mastercraft, despite two ski boat offerings. Do we really think this is even vaguely accurate?

[GaryJanzig]

If I had to repower today I would use the 5.3L PCM since the displacement is smaller than my current 351 Windsor PCM. 100 pounds lighter. 1 cubic foot smaller in the hope I would not have to alter the engine cover. Would change from the 1:1 transmission to the 1.23:1 if needed to make it fit. 1994 Ski Nautique. I would be interested to find out which engine would fit and also have Zero Off.

[skierjp]

@rockdog do you have numbers to back up your comment?

[rockdog]

You mean other than what @Mastercrafter @Horton and @Inboardfix have stated?

[Kelvin]

@GaryJanzig The 5.3L PCM is the same size block as the 6.2L PCM. You can't tell them apart just by looking at them, except for the branding. Also, I believe they both require a larger engine cover than the 5.7L and 6.0L engines.

[skierjp]

@rockdog They haven’t put out any real numbers. The post from Horton is his guess. And no idea about the 200.

[GaryJanzig]

@Kelvin I checked the PCM website. The displacement of the ZZ5(5.3L 355 HP) is 325 CID. The engine in my boat is 351 CID. I checked the PCM website. It should fit unless the other parts take up more space. I would be interested to hear from anyone who has repowered a boat with a ZZ5. The other engines the ZR4 (400HP)is 400 CID and the ZZ6 (450 HP) is 376 CID.

[dbutcher]

@Kelvin, question: If the 5.3L and the 6.2L have the same size block, would not the cylinder walls on the 6.2L be thinner in order to get the additional displacement? If so, is that important?

[Doug]

This pass week I finished my 26th repower starting back when we could still get 5.7 bobtails . Boats from Hawaii, Oregon, Arizona, Utah, Washington, Idaho and California I have two more scheduled after the first. These 6.0 customers chose to have a new 80A transmission which makes my job easier. There are no more parts for the 40A and there hasn’t been for a long time.You can see most of the boats that I have done on ski hub. There are no 5.7 bobtails or long blocks at indmar and hasn’t been for a long time. I am almost done with a ZO conversion on a 1994 Mastercraft pictures in February. Very busy summer and thanks to E control working with me the pass 4 years I have a 2006 Mastercraft 5.7 MCX non cat running on a 4G cal and ZO. I should have the 5.7 MCX CAT and the Malibu Mansoon done next summer. I hardly ever come on this site and read treads but I was told about this one.

[Mastercrafter]

@GaryJanzig it seems you’re trying to judge physical exterior size based off engine displacement which really has nothing to do with it. Once you add all the new style manifolds, accessories, etc etc, a new, lesser displacement engine will likely have a larger physical footprint than an older, larger displacement engine.

An Ilmor 350 is way bigger (externally) than an 80’s Indmar 454.

[jjackkrash]

@Doug, what does your 6.0L/ZO repower run? (Ballpark).

[Drago]

@Mastercrafter Doug likely won't see your question, his text # is in his profile

[GaryJanzig]

@Gloerson, 400 HP in a 2300 pound boat would be a beast. I would only do the repower if an engine rebuild is not possible. I would do a cost comparison first. I am at 2200 hours right now. I will be taking it in for its 400 hour service this spring. I have them change out the cap and rotors as needed, plugs and wires too. I also have them change the fuel filter, do an engine alignment check, and a compression check. The last compression check showed it was well within tolerance. I would like to have Zero Off, but that is the only thing the new boats have that I would want.

[ForrestGump]

@dbutcher It's nothing the worry about. The 6.2 has proven itself with millions of miles of service. The block was designed for both applications from the onset.