Cold water fin tune question

[aupatking]

Water has dropped about 15+ degrees and now, all of a sudden, I’m consistently blowing out the tail on my offside. Should I move boots or fin? How much? I was skiing really well and now I have to really baby the offside or it blows out.

[bkreis]

likely you've changed your balance point due to cold, warmup physically, then ski

[MISkier]

Maybe add a degree of wing angle?

[Deanoski]

Move fb back Or less tip

[igkya]

While 15 degrees may be a big difference, what's the actual water temp? When the tmps got into mid 50's, I used to add 0.10" of depth as a band aide, but agree with @bkreis, it's probably due to being cold and changing your stack, stance and balance.

[disland]

spray makers say dont touch it. check out the last podcast

[swbca]

Related to balance, did you start wearing a wet suit with the colder water and air ? I know even a shorty wet suit with full length sleeves changes my skiing until I adjust.

[Bruce_Butterfield]

Excellent summary herehttps://ballofspray.com/forum#/discussion/23606/water-temp-fin-adjustments-psa

[BobF]

One thing I retained from the Fin Whispering book was the theory that a setting that works in cold water should work well in warm water, but not necessarily the opposite is true. The idea is that there is a smaller margin of error in a cold water setup for a ski and your skiing style, due to the cold water being more reactive/dense against your movements.

My latest ski/setup surprised me last year by remaining skiable well into wetsuit season. This year, I tried a few tweaks in setup during the summer to break out of a slump, but kept returning to the same basic setup. This fall, the ski is still performing well even though the water temp has dropped over 20°. May be the ski, but I think I may have just stumbled upon the right setup for me on this ride. I'm as amazed as anyone. :)

[thager]

As it gets colder I move my fin back (reduce DFT) here in MN. I leave everything else alone.

[MJE]

Same as thager. Fin back .005 has always worked for me as water gets colder.

[BGrow76]

Would love to hear the latest thinking from @Chris Rossi and other pros on the conflicting subject.

What science tells us and from what @SkiJay has written in his Fin Whispering book is as the water cools is it gets more viscous and more dense, the density increase is small and insignificant but the increase in viscosity is significant.

[S1Pitts]

I agree with @disland on the spraymaker recommendation of do not move the fin.Like @BobF I believe I have "my optimum for me" settings and for the first year ever I have not touched anything as the water cooled. Have gone from 82F to 54F water while going from no suit to up to a full neo drysuit. Yes each time I changed suits I had to adjust me but in the end I just stuck to my keys and the performance came back.I touched 38 for the first time ever in a full neo drysuit last Sunday so I hope next year that remains as the water warms and the suits are off.

[LOTW]

Some skis just work better than others in cold water, stock settings. Usually better in rough/choppy, public lake courses also. My personal findings.

[ski41off_dave]

What ski are you on and what are your settings

[buoyboy1]

The only move I make is to reduce wing angle as the water cools down. Even though the ski is riding higher due to increased viscosity I feel more drag than anything so don't need as much wing angle. I also feel more water drag due to the neoprene on my dry suit.

[GaryJanzig]

Move your fin back for your onside, and make your fin longer for your offside. Do one adjustment at a time. Keep the wing at the recommended angle for your top speed per the ski manufacturer.

[Horton]

This may not be popular but one of the things I do when the water gets colder is lower my high score expectations. Long before I would mess with my fin I would start spending more time on easier passes. Cold = off season = time to work on repetition

[UWSkier]

All these comments are strange to me. I'm on the big end of my ski size at 250 lbs. All my best scores are in water under 75f. The ski rides up higher so I get the benefit of feeling what normal size people do at warmer temps. I guess it makes sense normies would start blowing the tail when it gets colder. :)

[MISkier]

@UWSkier, my ski performs similarly - much better in colder water (under 70 degrees). I am just south of 150 pounds, though, so it's not a skier size issue for me. I think I will need to make some warm water adjustments next season. First candidates are less wing and fin forward. I don't want to change too much, though, as I like everything else about its turning characteristics and edge change responsiveness. I just seem to get a bit of extra load out of the buoy and before the first wake and notice it's a little more effort to ski. And, I suspect I am getting the ski stuck behind me on the offside turn, due to it sitting down more in the water at the tail and not sliding as much. All of that goes away in the colder water. Need to bring the tail up a little in the warmer water, I think, to approximate the cold water attitude of the ski.

[JackQ]

I am with @Horton. As soon as it get cooler and my enthusiasm and performance slackens, I don't touch my fin, but accept than I will be done a pass, and run more back to back passes and work on my weakness. To get better typically when you work on a weak point, you get worse before you improve the “off season” is the time for me to do so.

[Deanoski]

I live in MT cold water is under 55 degrees summer water temps 70 i added .05 in length and take out .03-.04 in depth compared to the lake I used to ski in that was warm 80 plus in the summer I leave boots in the same place except under 50 I move the fb with the mirco adjust one click forward. run about the same scores until the water gets under 50 then we have all kinds of variables,

[Drago]

I've spent my whole life setting up skis in cold water. Once I got it dialed, I had to back it off--what @MISkier said, "First candidates are less wing and fin forward", and less length. Opposites would be true to change foe cold water, but unless you ski cold water tournaments, leave it alone as @Horton said.

[bkreis]

reiterate warmup and exercise a little before you ski so your your body is ready...stiff, cold tight, will make you feel like changing the fin...keep your body warm instead!!!!!

if anyone needs proper body/fitness training hit me up...virtual works!!

[aupatking]

@ski41off_dave D3 NRG R2, stock settings. 67” 6.935 2.460 0.750 8° 30” front boot. I really don’t want to change the setup, honestly, but my basic -28 pass I keep blowing the tail, even when I feel like everything is good. I keep coming in miles early, and then the ski tip over-rotates to point back to 1 ball. I’m thinking about just sliding the boots back a click or 2 on the Mikro-Just and leaving the fin as is. I spent all day building the walkway to the new boathouse looking at perfect calm water on the lake, not getting any skiing in. Torture. I told my ski partner who was helping that this kind of work was like Cross-Fit, but for men

[VONMAN]

@MISkier Back where I skied at Dixboro ski club one of skier's was a 32off/1 or 2 balls at 35 off in the warm summer. But come late September and October the water temp would drop and the dry suits would be required, he would step his game up and would be running 35off and get 1 or 2 balls at 38off. I offered to help tune his ski for warmers water but he always declined. Why! Don't know! But it would happen every Fall.

[twhisper]

@aupatking I would suggest that if you're blowing the tail then you wouldn't want to add more pressure to the tail of the ski by moving your bindings back. For me, moving the bindings forward on a ski will help stabilize my offside turns. It allows for more of the entire edge of the ski to be gripping the water instead of just the back half of the ski.

More fin length and moving the fin back might also help.

[rico]

@aupatking I was in Florida in 85F water and got back to California at 70F water. In Florida, my ski was shutting down faster and sooner making the ski very stable with a feeling of having more time in the turns to let the ski finish. In the colder California water, the ski is riding higher and faster, delaying the edge change and coming in faster into the buoy. First reflex for us mortals, is too push harder on the tail.What helps me is to carry the handle / connection through the wake and into the pre turn.

Having said that, I agree with @Horton... Time to repeat the easy passes

[jhughes]

@aupatking I ride an NRG R1 at stock settings. When the water temp dropped (into the 60's) this fall the only move I made was front boot forward one hole. Ski was right back to normal for me. I run into 35 off at 34mph. I don't know how different the R2 really is from the R1 but probably not drastically.