Safesport requirement to renew USA waterski

[braindamage]

Amazing…the world changes…the older generations don’t like it. Weird. Sounds like what’s been happening since the beginning of time.

 

The only difference is that the complaints are more easily seen via social media.

 

If you are a baby boomer ask yourself…do you think your grandparents were thrilled with the world you were creating?

 

Ok…this may get me banned but oh well.

[ForrestGump]

@braindamage You're a bit off the mark. Knowing a lot of the people here, it's not the boomers who are pushing back as much as it is the next generation.

[braindamage]

@ForrestGump could be…I don’t have the data. @usawaterskiHQ do you know the specific age groups that are mostly dropping out?

 

I was just pointing out that this pattern is predictable. Gen X didn’t really do anything so I picked the baby boomers to make my point.

[lpskier]

I saw the numbers today. AWSA has 702 more members this year than last.

[Wish]

There goes my theory of skiing tournaments again with less competition. @lpskier…. way to be a buzz kill ?

[UCFskier]

@ForrestGump you can choose why your taking (or not taking) SS. Either way there are no sports moving forward with out this. if your bummed about it go talk to the 24 ppl who violated policy since 2018

[Jody_Seal]

@UCFskier

yea but only one of those 24 ppl could run 41 off.

the rest were banned for life.

there in lies the hypocrisy in all this..

 

@lpskier quick reminder on your membership #s comment.

a couple ski companies offer a membership with a purchase of a new ski. how many of those took the time to go through the indoctrination to participate in tournaments? probably not to many and did it offset the number of members that would not, did not or otherwise left competition due to the indodctrination criteria?

 

 

 

 

 

 

[UCFskier]

@Jody_Seal

"@UCFskier

yea but only one of those 24 ppl could run 41 off.

the rest were banned for life.

there in lies the hypocrisy in all this.."

 

been saying this since day one.

[wettek69]

As the victim of a predator who won the trust of all the parents in my scout troop before he had his merry way with a few of us, I am not sure an online course is going to do much.

[Than_Bogan]

@wettek69 That is absolutely horrible and you have my deepest sympathy.

Have you taken the online course? As someone with (thank god) no actual experience in this area, it *seemed* like it provided tools to tell the difference between dedicated individuals and predators. Maybe more importantly, it advocates procedures that remove predatory opportunities, such as requiring open door meetings.

 

But if you tell me that this training doesn't seem likely to prevent the horrible thing that happened to you, then I will believe you.

[Jody_Seal]

USAWS:

 

 

[ForrestGump]

@wettek69 I can't tell you how unbelievably sorry I am to hear this. And you're not the first person to tell me this. Someone I'm close to in BMX took the SS training in order to be a coach. This person had gone something similar earlier in life and their comment to me was that it wouldn't have changed anything. That bad people are going to do bad things regardless.

[scuppers]

@ForrestGump That is exactly correct.

[lpskier]

@scuppers That is sooo not the point. The point is to get non- abusers to notice signs of abuse in others and/or to take steps within their control that limit the time/opportunities for abusers and victims to be alone. That said, Larry Nasser apparently abused women in a “therapeutic” setting with the young girls’ mothers in the very room while the abuse took place.

[scuppers]

@lpskier - you just confirmed the training doesn’t work at all. I too was one of the kids moved on by a catholic priest at 8 years old. My parents and my home life and up-bringing were all the training I needed to recognize a pervert - It was handled swiftly cleanly in a dignified manner without any government involvement. The Catholic Church took care of the rest. I didn’t need any psychological counseling or special attention. Grow a pair and drive on.

[braindamage]

@scuppers you win the award for the least kind words I’ve ever read on a forum.

 

Really? Using your logic, it leads to the conclusion that we don’t even need laws because good parenting and “growing a pair” is all we need?

 

And the idea that the Catholic Church took care of the rest? Their practice was to send the predator to another parish so they could start all over again.

 

I’m glad this worked out well for you. It just didn’t seem to work out well for millions of others.

[rfa]

If I were the Catholic Church I would be pretty unhappy with @scuppers. All the turmoil and over $4Billion later, he tells them they could have just told everyone to "grow a pair and drive on".

Plus, what's with all that "psychological counseling or special attention"? What kind of people need that?

I think the US gymnastics, U. Michigan, etc. and their insurance companies should be interested in his expertise...I believe so far they're still under $2Billion...

[scuppers]

@braindamage How old are you?, and what do you know about the Catholic church. And if you really think about it most of the laws we have stem directly from people not being taught right from wrong in the first place. Too many "kind words" and not enough discipline.

@rfa quite the contrary - The church hung a plaque in my honor thanking me for not carrying on like it was the end of the earth.

[foxriverat]

I went to catholic grammer school in the 60s @scuppers you must of had some damming evidence for the church to believe you let alone take action against there priest. That's not something they even admit to now days let alone back then. Sorry that had to happen to you. If it did.

[rfa]

"The church hung a plaque in my honor thanking me for not carrying on like it was the end of the earth"

 

The irony is breathtaking! Yes, that explains the $4Billion and the shamefulness of it all. You could not have said anything more damning of the Church if you were actually trying.

 

[braindamage]

@scuppers im not sure the relevance of my age and religious affiliation. Is that so you can dismiss my viewpoint not on its merits but rather based on some demographic stereotype?

[Buxrus]

Gentlemen and gentlewomen, the debate over the issue this discussion has turned into is endless, complex and volatile, and actually visceral for some reading who has been on the victim side of this gross issue.

 

It is impossible to legislate life. For thousands of years, laws and rules have been adopted, changed, modified, altered and yet to no avail. For some of us, we know sin entered the world over two thousand years ago and today the consequences of this sin is present on a daily basis. However, an online course to “protect the young athlete” is NOT going to stop the predation of young people. The weak, vulnerable, misinformed and innocent of a society will continue to fall prey to the predators. Unfortunately the predators don’t wear badges or signs saying “beware” I am a perp. (They do take online courses though to learn the ins and outs of the system.)

 

My opening statement/question for this discussion was what is the legitimate reasoning for me to be mandated to take SS to participate as a member of USA waterski? Folks, my question was answered approximately two pages ago; it’s a money grab for USA waterski. It was explained that USA waterski is receiving funding from a governing association, which in turn requires members to complete SS. Ok, I understand this answer. Do I agree with it? Not important. Do I have a choice to make? Yes, and I did. I am completely satisfied with the answer. I wish this could have been told up front so perhaps all this bitter debate would not have transpired. I do NOT judge folks for taking the SS. My ski partner, whom I consider a very good friend took SS so that he could compete in tournaments. A very good recent friend of mine is going to take SS so he can participate in the nationals in his home state. We respect and enjoy each other with NO JUDGEMENT.

 

Thank you for the opportunity.

 

 

 

 

 

[Andre]

Shut down that thread @Horton!

[Horton]

I think one point that gets missed every time this topic comes up is that almost every other nationally sanctioned sport has the same issue. I'm not defending the safe sport policies but everybody needs to understand that this is not water ski specific.

 

Last I heard cycling had found a workaround for non-officials or non-coaches but generally speaking any sport that is USOC affiliated probably is going to institute safe support.

[MDB1056]

Agree 100% with @Andre

[Jody_Seal]

why is it that you @Andre and @MDB1056 want this thred shut down?

don't read it if you don't like the content.

 

the safe sport application is still a unpopular

policy with many participants in this sport.

BOS is the only and I repete only avenue that skiers and AWSA members have for expressing their views as well as suggestions in a public forum.

 

I think the safesport policy stinks, is hypocritical and not warranted for general membership participation. it was heavy handed applied as well as very misinformed to membership in its legality.

general membership had absolutely no input nor vote on this policy, as well as the safe sport policy went way over the top in its application.

 

So John can pull this thred down if he wants but the subject will reappear again.

 

[Horton]

this thread will go away when people stop posting in it....

[Jody_Seal]

I would also like to thank John For his patience as well as allowing issues to be discussed and brought forward on BOS.

John your contribution is well commended and appreciated.

Thank you sir!

[klindy]

As someone who was part of AWSA leadership while this was implemented, suggesting it’s a “money grab” on the part of USAWSWS is severely short sighted. While the overall benefits of our affiliation with the USOPC can be argued, it is NOT only money.

 

Second, it would be foolish to operate an organization like this without insurance. Without SS or something similar that insurance either becomes impossible to find or prohibitively expensive. Only a fool would think there is “zero exposure” to liability or believe that the problem doesn’t exist everywhere. It’s incredibly unfortunate but with more than a dozen cases and literally a pending case constantly since the beginning within waterskiing, people need to recognize the problem is real and isn’t going to magically go away.

 

So as an organization you have a few options. Ignore it and hope for the best. Hopefully the above and history will suggest that is not the right answer. Or, participate in well recognized, endorsed programs like SafeSport. We can argue that it doesn’t apply or isn’t worthwhile but the fact is, the program does provide some education and “clues” to look out for everyday. Or, as an organization we embark on our own specific, “custom” program that has zero history or backing and would need to ultimately be proven effective (not sure how) to become valuable. Maybe we need an additional, specific program that is sport specific on top of the generic SS training? I’m not suggesting that, but the wide varying opinions expressed by members suggest there is no one size fits all answer.

 

As a group, the more educated we are and the more we collectively know what to look for and HOW to speak up, the better it becomes for all and the few chances there are for something awful to happen. It is not fool proof. It is not perfect. However doing nothing just plain defies logic.

 

I’ve personally taken the main course and all 4 follow up courses. It was largely what I already knew. Each one did enlighten me on something I didn’t think of or didn’t prioritize. Each time was a refresher to keep paying attention.

 

I realize it seems unnecessary and perhaps heavy handed. I’d argue it’s not on either point. It could have been better communicated and unfortunately there were more unknown or undecided details that didn’t help clear communications. That said the membership has seemed to respond with those who wish to participate completing the training and moving on. Time will tell if there’s any effect or if the issues and investigations continue. As a parent and one who had supported and participated in the competitive side of the sport for decades, I hope it does make a difference.

[Jody_Seal]

in 2001 a group of boat racers had enough of what the American Power boat association was ramming down their throats.They started a new sanctioning body for the kneel down classes that was more in tune with their needs,.75 mph max boats rather then 150 plus mph boats and all the insuranceas well as common in house political BS they wanted to be free of . the organization is more regional then national but they have survived as well hasprospered.I wonder if the same concept would thrive for three event waterskiers?

[Killer]

My 7yo started house league hockey this year. As a parent (not a volunteer, coach, or participant) I had to take a "respect in sport" training. It was a few hours online and included testing. I did learn a little although mostly common sense.

It also cost me $12 about the same as his jock strap. Big deal.

[APB]

I agree with @Killer… I think the bottom line is… Any education helps. Maybe it will prevent someone that preys on underage teens to again take advantage of youth in our sport. Seems like a no brainer to me. I took the cdn version and it was mellow.

[lpskier]

I attended a great music festival this past weekend. Four days of jam band and EDM music and camping with 10,000 of my closest friends. Had to read (okay, I glossed over it) and sign a long form essentially dealing with SafeSport issues in order to be admitted.

[mike_mapple]

On 7/30/2022 at 10:37 AM, usawaterskiHQ said:

https://www.teamusa.org/usa-water-ski/suspended-members.

link just goes to the home page for me...

[The_MS]

Life is good

[jcamp]

https://www.usawaterski.org/suspended-members

[aupatking]

As much as I hate that this thread has come back, I have had 3 guys who used to ski tournaments with me say they just didn’t feel like dealing with the hassle. 

[lpskier]

I don’t know any of those guys, but apparently having the name “Colin” could be a disadvantage. Two of them on the list. 

[The_MS]

 

https://apnews.com/article/butt-slap-safesport-swimming-olympics-sexual-abuse-3699dae4adc281696ae1fbb5f7b76c6a

[Jody_Seal]

safesport is the hemorrhoid of this organization. 

[Wish]

Really? 
That’s a big budget. And they need MORE $$ to hire additional staff?? That’s an average salary of $370,000. Take away $70,000 each and you have $4.5mil for operational cost and they still average $300,000. What’s the qualification for an employee ??
 

And the opinion of law enforcemant  means very little??
 

350% increase in allegations. And they anticipate more.  We should all just quit all sports now before it’s too late. 
 

operates on a 24 $million annual budget, received around 7,000 complaints last year and has about 65 employees 

 

Nemchik said the center's policy is to make decisions free from influence of law enforcement.

 

 

The 7,000 allegations received in 2023 mark around a 30% increase over 2022 and a nearly 350% increase over 2020.

 

[The_MS]

I just hope the next SS victim is not someone who I know.  
 

[kmenard]

At this point, my guess is this has more to do with an insurance company saying you have to have than anything else. I will say it again, the fact that the most obvious SS violator has a ski full of sponsorships tells me it is all window dressing, and IF YOU GET THE QUESTION RIGHT, YOU SHOULDN'T THEN HAVE TO WATCH THE VIDEO TO TELL YOU WHY YOU WERE RIGHT! I have no problem with the 'training', I have a big problem with wasting my time. 

[Horton]

I really don't understand any of the outrage. SS feels the same as the Idiocracy of everyday life in 2024. 

[dbutcher]

Please forgive my ignorance, but does it cost anything to renew Safe Sport?  My AWSA membership and Safe Sport training both expire this month, and I am evaluating whether to renew either or both.

[The_MS]

@Horton imagine if you or your daughter were falsely accused. I would understand the outrage. To put a teens life on hold for 4 years is a travesty 

[Horton]

@The_MS you might have miss understood my point. what I'm saying is everything in the modern world is stupid. why would this be any different?

 

[The_MS]

I guess you are correct. Crap like this drives me nuts 

[Horton]

@The_MS I'm with you 100%. I'm just overwhelmed with things to be irate about.

[The_MS]

@Horton I am irate about the weather, its in the 40s here🥶