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Safesport requirement to renew USA waterski


Buxrus
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There is SOOOOO much to say about this topic and mandate.

My initial question was regarding the legitimate reasoning for taking this “course” to participate in membership for USA waterski and/or ski tournaments? The answer so far is there is not a legit reason for this mandate.

I see folks just say “take it”, “shut up and take it”, “Do it for the love and support of the sport”, “it only takes a short time” etc. etc.

It is certainly not coincidental that the 30 yr. Old members are signing up and not saying anything. And as reported by “HQ”, the older members are not signing up or they’re just complaining about it.

Due to the strict political guidelines attached to this site and out of respect to @horton I will withhold my opinion regarding those demographic findings.

However, the answer to my question is: This is not about waterskiing or tournaments, but more about gathering data on another small community or subculture within our United States.

Thank you for all the responses. I respect everyone’s choice to do as they wish.

Ski well and enjoy.

 

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@Buxrus - I encourage you to read "The Why" behind Safe Sport - https://www.teamusa.org/USA-Water-Ski/About-Us/The-Why---USA-WSWS

 

Some may not agree with the rationale but there actually is rhyme and reason behind the board's decision to implement. We are actually trying to protect our young athletes and the organization as a whole.

 

"The Why" Behind Safe Sport - (from an Dec 21, 2021 email to members)

After a lengthy discussion the USA Water Ski & Wake Sports board of directors voted in March 2021 to add Safe Sport training for all adult members age 18 and over starting on January 1, 2022. The below bullet points should help answer “why” this decision was made:

 

As an amateur sports organization, we are required to follow the Safe Sport code per federal law S534, the Protecting Young Victims from Sexual Abuse and Safe Sport Authorization Act of 2017.

 

The bill imposes general requirements on youth-serving amateur athletic organizations which include mandatory reporting and prevention training for adult members who have regular contact with minor athletes (Note: The organization would be subject to following the law regardless of our association with the USOPC).

 

Some state laws (California is the most recent example) also mandate comprehensive background screening, abuse & molestation awareness and prevention training, mandatory reporting, etc. The insurance carriers are simply stating that for insureds to qualify for defense and liability coverage with respect to alleged abuse situations, insureds must be following federal and state law requirements. These laws are NOT limited to USOPC and its NGBs.

 

USA-WSWS recently received a letter from Congressional leaders regarding Safe Sport training and background check expectations of amateur sports organizations that oversee sports with minor athletes.

 

The law requires mandatory reporting and prevention training for adult members who have “regular contact” with minors. The definition of regular contact is debatable but typically covers coaches, instructors, officials, leadership boards and national team members. In our sport, regular contact with a minor is evident within the entire sport discipline of show skiing, as there are minors on teams with adults. Show skiing makes up nearly 40% of USA-WSWS membership. Nearly all USA-WSWS sanctioned events (regardless of sports discipline) have both minor and adult participants. For example, the junior divisions at AWSA Nationals have seen eight straight years of participation grown. It’s obvious that juniors are the future of the sport.

 

Of our 13,700 total members comprising nine Sports Disciplines, 3,400 (25%) are minors.

The USA-WSWS board felt Safe Sport training for all adult members age 18 and over was the right thing to do in the best interest of athlete safety.

 

The culture around athlete safety in all of sport is evolving and the board felt it was important to be proactive and take a stand in an effort to protect our young athletes. Currently, 15 of the 50 recognized National Governing Bodies (NGBs) under the oversight of the United States Olympic and Paralympic Committee (USOPC), including U.S. Ski & Snowboard who has double the number of adult participants as USA-WSWS, have a Safe Sport training requirement in place for all adult members.

 

From a liability standpoint, our general liability insurance carrier supported the Safe Sport training decision. Although the requirement does not affect our insurance premium directly, it puts the organization in a better position with carriers moving forward. Some NGBs and other youth serving organizations have now become uninsurable because of claims regarding sexual abuse and misconduct.

 

According to our insurance broker, carriers are going to expect there to be a Safe Sport protocol (or something similar) and background screening in place, regardless of whether or not the organization is affiliated with the USOPC, if the organization wants to have insurance coverage for abuse claims. Organizations such as Boy Scouts of America and Boys and Girls Clubs may not use Safe Sport, but they are required to implement a similar program if they want insurance coverage. (Side note: our insurance broker took USA-WSWS to market to 26 carriers prior to 2022 and only 3 where willing to even write coverage. Our past provider for 10+ years is no longer in the amateur sports arena with any sport governing body due to risk concerns - our sport has motorized boats, minors, girls in bathing suits, etc. - not an appetite for many carriers).

 

Since 2017, across all NGBs, the U.S. Center for Safe Sport has investigated more than 8,400 total cases. Unfortunately, there are bad apples out there. The goal of Safe Sport training is for USA-WSWS members to recognize and help to eliminate areas where potential abuse and misconduct could occur.

 

Protecting our young athletes is important. And if you look at things from a risk management/liability standpoint, we are trying to avoid this (which has destroyed similar sports governing bodies):

 

Hockey Canada Pays out $7.6 Million in Abuse Claims-

https://torontosun.com/sports/hockey/hockey-canada-has-paid-7-6m-in-sex-abuse-settlements-since-1989

 

Kylie McKenzie Sues U.S.T.A., Claiming It Failed to Keep Her Safe -

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/28/sports/tennis/kylie-mckenzie-usta-lawsuit.html

 

USA Gymnastics, U.S. Olympic Committee Agree To $380 Million Settlement-

https://www.forbes.com/sites/annakaplan/2021/12/13/usa-gymnastics-us-olympic-committee-agree-to-380-million-settlement-with-nassar-victims-report-says/?sh=658708e8556d

 

USA Water Polo players get $14 million in sex abuse settlement

https://apnews.com/article/water-polo-olympic-games-2020-tokyo-olympics-sports-837aabce492f3debb492181d77dea80e

 

How USA Badminton found itself at the center of athlete abuse allegations

https://www.latimes.com/sports/olympics/story/2021-12-05/us-badminton-sexual-assault-allegations

 

$6 million settlement for child abused by bowling coach

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/law-justice/6-million-settlement-for-child-abused-by-seattle-area-bowling-coach/

 

USA Swimming To Settle Sex Abuse Lawsuit Filed By Former Olympian

https://www.npr.org/2020/03/11/814377679/usa-swimming-to-settle-sex-abuse-lawsuit-filed-by-former-olympian

 

U.S. Figure Skating to Pay $1.45 Million to Ex-Skater Who Says He Was Abused

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/14/us/adam-schmidt-sexual-abuse-settlement.html

 

Court Rules USA Taekwondo must protect athletes from abuse, court rules

https://www.insidethegames.biz/articles/1106178/court-ruling-usa-taekwondo-sexual-abuse

 

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@usawaterskiHQ Darn, I thought you were giving us some credible information until that nonsense about the Oral History project. Making it appear that I need to call a 3rd party organization to "check my membership data" is at best very misleading, and I would use the same word that Bruce did: scam. PLEASE do not sell my information to 3rd party vendors in the future and ESPECIALLY do not make it look like it is a required activity for membership. This is the kind of "cried wolf" scenario that will make people ignore legitimate requirements -- like SafeSport!

 

After hanging up on that Oral History B.S. was the closest I've ever come to cancelling my membership. Not acceptable.

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@Than_Bogan - your information was NOT sold to any 3rd party. We are working in conjunction with PCI on this project and your info is not being used for anything else.

 

The postcards and emails they are sending to promote the program (although approved by us) – are their standard templates that they’ve used in other projects and have conducted A/B testing on to determine which messages get the most calls/member stories. I agree they do have somewhat of a phishing feel to them, but we didn’t have much leeway on the marketing messages as they know what works for their business. Again, I apologize if you feel scammed but the verification is important for the data clean part of the project. At the end of the day, we’re more interested in our member stories and having a 100th anniversary keepsake to celebrate the centennial of the sport.

 

As an FYI, this project was communicated to membership before it started via an email on 5/31 letting everyone know that you would be receiving an additional email(s) and/or postcard and that the project is legitimate. It was also posted on the website - https://www.teamusa.org/USA-Water-Ski/PCI-Oral-History-Project-FAQs.

 

 

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There was plenty of communication that this was legitimate. The problem is that it isn't. I do not consider this a legitimate use of my membership in a competition organization. Please try to see through the eyes of some long-time and generally quite reasonable members, such as Bruce and (arguably) myself, and avoid this in the future.
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@Drago - this project is costing USA-WSWS $0. We get the benefit of some data clean up, access to over 1,000 member stories for re-purpose in other areas (magazine, website, e-newsletters, social, etc.), a hard cover keepsake book to celebrate the 100th anniversary of the sport, and a small revenue share from any books sold.

 

For those in marketing - they realize the value of content. And this project will give us a vast amount of content (e.g. "Why I Water Ski" or "What has Water Skiing done for me").

 

We won't be doing this project again in the future (maybe for the 200th anniversary but none of us will be around for that one).

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/facepalm

 

The OHP is costing USAWS nothing because a 3rd party company is profiting from our membership. This is one of the core reasons why so many of us object to our membership information being used in this way. And yes, this is selling my information to a 3rd party company. To argue otherwise is either bad accounting or disingenuous. PCI didn't want me to call them for their entertainment -- they wanted me to call them so they could profit off me.

 

Please try to understand why so many of us find this unacceptable, and act accordingly in the future. It's not that we misunderstand. We understand, and we object.

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Thanks to everyone who has chimed in on the debate. My intent was not that of debate. I was searching for an answer. At the time of this posting, there has been NO legitimate reasoning for Safe Sport to be mandated for waterskiing tournaments.

There is no panacea of protection if someone takes an on line course regarding appropriate behavior. We speak of protecting the young athlete, but what does safe sport or any other online data base offer to the young athlete in the pathway of a coach/predator?

Don’t you think the Catholic Church, Baptist church, etc required their leaders to pledge ethical behavior?

If you’ve watched a women’s NCAA gymnastics meet recently this is what you and the rest of the viewership will see: Student athlete sticks her dismount, gets a great score then runs to her coach who is waiting with open arms, she launches herself into his arms and she wraps her legs around his torso. I am pretty sure this is a huge no no according to safe sport, but it continues. Is this inappropriate behavior? As a father of two daughters, now raised and a papaw of a 7 year old granddaughter: NO. If i witness this over and over at a practice or outside the realm of high level competition, now I start to asked questions.

This topic obviously needs to be re visited @ HQ.

My questions still needs an answer but it will be left unanswered.

Thank you again for the opportunity.

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@Buxrus … totally agree ! No real answers. “ Just do it , I don’t see what the big deal is “ are not answers. Are you going to jump off a bridge because some one told you to? Disagreeing and voicing your opinion is how things change!
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@buoyboy1 - since 2018 there have been 24 Safe Sport investigations of USA-WSWS members which includes folks from nearly every sports discipline from 3-event to adaptive to show ski to collegiate to barefoot. You can view the suspended members list here (those that received temporary suspensions that have expired do not appear on the current list) - https://www.teamusa.org/usa-water-ski/suspended-members.

 

As I mentioned in my previous post, happy to have offline conversations with anyone - email me at nboudreaux@usawaterski.org. I'd prefer to not get into a debate in a forum over Safe Sport or any other topic (I just chimed in because one of the original posts had misinformation in it) - but happy to have a one-on-one conversation with anyone about anything USA-WSWS.

 

@Buxrus @34mph - if you read The Why behind Safe Sport that should have explained it quite clearly. We obviously want to protect our young athletes but most of actions being required by sports organizations is being driven by the insurance markets trying to mitigate risk. Again, I share the below which is just a small sampling of what's happening in all of sport.

 

Hockey Canada Pays out $7.6 Million in Abuse Claims-

https://torontosun.com/sports/hockey/hockey-canada-has-paid-7-6m-in-sex-abuse-settlements-since-1989

 

Kylie McKenzie Sues U.S.T.A., Claiming It Failed to Keep Her Safe -

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/28/sports/tennis/kylie-mckenzie-usta-lawsuit.html

 

USA Gymnastics, U.S. Olympic Committee Agree To $380 Million Settlement-

https://www.forbes.com/sites/annakaplan/2021/12/13/usa-gymnastics-us-olympic-committee-agree-to-380-million-settlement-with-nassar-victims-report-says/?sh=658708e8556d

 

USA Water Polo players get $14 million in sex abuse settlement

https://apnews.com/article/water-polo-olympic-games-2020-tokyo-olympics-sports-837aabce492f3debb492181d77dea80e

 

How USA Badminton found itself at the center of athlete abuse allegations

https://www.latimes.com/sports/olympics/story/2021-12-05/us-badminton-sexual-assault-allegations

 

$6 million settlement for child abused by bowling coach

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/law-justice/6-million-settlement-for-child-abused-by-seattle-area-bowling-coach/

 

USA Swimming To Settle Sex Abuse Lawsuit Filed By Former Olympian

https://www.npr.org/2020/03/11/814377679/usa-swimming-to-settle-sex-abuse-lawsuit-filed-by-former-olympian

 

U.S. Figure Skating to Pay $1.45 Million to Ex-Skater Who Says He Was Abused

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/14/us/adam-schmidt-sexual-abuse-settlement.html

 

Court Rules USA Taekwondo must protect athletes from abuse, court rules

https://www.insidethegames.biz/articles/1106178/court-ruling-usa-taekwondo-sexual-abuse

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weird. i scrolled through this whole thread and there is not a name sign to any of the posts. And you're right no profile.

 

OHHH NATE BOUDREAUX, that guy that snail mail spams me 2x a week with weird post cards asking about my history and profile. Half my recycle bin is filled with those worthless things.

 

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"It's interesting the usawaterski person does not post their name"

 

Really? I don't do the "WTF" click because I think it's "cowardly" to hide behind it. But really, WTF?

I was curious and just looked the profiles of @usawaterskiHQ and @scoke since I know neither. Here's what I found

@usawaterskiHQ - Real Name - Nate Boudreaux

@scoke - Real name - ????

 

I could come up with a picture too, but I'll just say, pretty sad!!!

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Shelby and a few others need to calm down. Nate Boudreaux and USA Waterski are doing the best they can in the face of insurance requirements. Read the posts about the lawsuits and awards. We have to do all kinds of retarded shit to keep insurance these days. It sucks, but does someone else want to step up and pay the 7 and 8 figure judgements to save 2 hours of their life that could have spent scrolling this or some other random dwarf porn website?

 

There is a large problem in this country with lawsuits and lawyers that seek and juries that award against deep pockets that are 1% culpable. That is a subject that would probably get me banned if I railed against any harder.

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I agree with Shelby. It is important to voice disagreement. If you don’t, the stupidity will take over. It’s only two hours of your life wasted, right? The point is you get to choose what you “waste” time doing. Most of my rides lately are a waste of boat gas and two hours of my life but that’s my choice. Not some nonsense rammed down my throat by do-gooders.
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going back to very first post of this thread, I found the question being asked if tournament participation is down due to the Safesport requirement.... At our regionals a friend of mine took first place!!! But there were only 2 people skiing in their age group. Only 2!!!
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@mcskier41 yes. Exactly. Everyone gets a medal. I think wish said he might ski because he could get a medal because there was less competition.

This is exactly the opposite of when Australian swimmer refused to compete unless Duke Kahanamoku was able to compete in the olympics because he was the best. The Australian did not want a metal unless it was legitimate and competing against the best in the world

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@dave2ball, I believe that is a gross overstatement and mixing two issues. I also question the value added for USOC affiliation, but even without it we would have to do SafeSport or a similar facsimile.
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So….the “protection” that HQ and others have referred to is actually for USA waterski litigation. The mandate is “sold” in the disguise of “protecting our young athletes”.

So more truth: if any of these government affiliated associations truly believe the government is going to lawyer up and come to your rescue legally….wow then they all are really naive.

 

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@JackQ weather or not you believe it’s a gross overstatement or not as long as we are tied with the USOC and they give us money we have to play by there rules. And the actions congress passed.

I do agree that being tied to the USOC really does not do us any good. We are not going to see skiing as an Olympic event. And if we were on our own we may have to take a SS type class no disagreement there.

Just follow the money as it was laid out in in the thread prior a couple of months age.

Apparently the USOC gives us a large amount.

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@dave2ball Dave: our tie to USOCPC is more complicated than just money. The IWWF will only recognize a country”s water ski NGB if that NGB is recognized by that country’s Olympic Committee. Therefore USAWSWS will be recognized by the IWWF as the US NGB if we are so recognized by USOC, and that recognition comes with strings.

 

Granted most of the rank and file probably don’t care about IWWF participation, but we need it to field world and Pan Am teams.

Lpskier

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@lpskier which is of course something that we see the European tour stops becoming bigger and bigger.

 

The US is losing its grasp on being an attractive venue for pro skiing with money and stops in Europe increasingly attractive to the skiers.

 

 

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@lpskier I did not know that good info. That also falls back on playing by there rules. Basically it boils down to take the SS class and ski tournaments or don’t. It’s a personal choice. Certain things are out of the membership control. There still is soooo much whining about SS still I wish I could open up a cheese shop.

 

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Hey @dave2ball, so asking a question to gain information regarding a mandate from an association I have been a member with for several years is whining? As I read through this entire discussion, i have found the discussion responses to be mature, courteous, explanatory and informative. I have not really read a “whine and cheese” comment thus far……Oh wait, besides your last post.

My primary opening question was “what is the legitimate reason we have to complete SS to be able to ski in tournaments?” The answer has been somewhat answered recently on some of the most current post: USA waterski is receiving money from a governing body who mandates SS to be completed by its members. If this is true…..OK. My choice is not to participate.

To be totally transparent to all: I actually don’t ski tournaments anyway. There have been more years than not when I have paid my dues to USA waterski and did not ski in a tournament. I don’t enjoy them. It demands a lot of time. I never got into this sport to compete against others. I don’t need affirmation for my skiing. My “tournament” is my skiing against the course, its that simple. My affirmation comes from me completing as many buoys as I can each and every time I ski.

Choices are part of our great democracy. Mandates should not be part of that democracy. Choices….

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mcskier has a very good point about participation , i know a lot of Europeans that came over in spring and like to catch a tournament or two while they are here training but because of the SS mandate on top of joining considered it not worth it
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@MrJones - Yes it is. And the reason why the dead horse keeps getting a beating is some of us are just not “go along with the crowd” kind of people. Those that are should study a bit of history (before it’s erased) 6 million “go alongs” were gassed - and not that long ago. Yes we want to join and compete but not at the cost of swallowing a bowl of bull shit. @Buxrus is right - taking that class protects no one.

(I bet this post will fire ‘em up!)

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I took the time to read all 50 plus pages of this safe sport thing. This thread seems to be a rehash of the prior thread, just in different statements. It pretty much comes down to join AWSA and ski tournaments or don’t join AWSA. Pretty simple. I will not be joining AWSA because I don’t really ski tournaments anymore. So I’ll opt out.
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At the end of the day, it is your choice. Your choice is drawing a line in the sand at taking an anti pedophile course to help prevent child endangerment and abuse in the sport. Interesting hill to die on, but it is your choice, and some sure want everyone to know, when no one cares. An amateur sports organization is not a democracy, no reason to conflate one’s political frustrations with an organization.
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@bruxus, "...so asking a question to gain information regarding a mandate from an association I have been a member with for several years is whining?" In my opinion, no!

 

But what followed your question, has included some of what may be described as "whining", in the context of the previously exhaustive (and exhausting) discussions on this subject. As you noted yourself, "@Broussard: Please post that dead horse thing again"

 

However, I am not quite sure whether your simple "question to gain information" was as innocent as it sounds. Recapping:

 

Your very first post started with "I know I am probably treading on very thin ice." What gave you that impression?

 

The immediately following posts clearly answered that SS was only required to participate, not to renew, to which you replied "@MattP why else would I join?". The the next post (with the dead horse pic) provided links to two previous threads on this very subject. You also replied that you had done searches and nothing came up. I guess that's possible and not the reason why you thought you were on "thin ice". But l also suppose the "thin ice" did not come out of thin air...

 

Now, 3 pages later and after several postings where you made your concerns about "mandates", democracy, etc. quite clear, you just said "I actually don’t ski tournaments anyway".

 

So, at the beginning you say "why else would I join?" in response to being told you did not have to do SS to join, only to participate. Now, you say "I actually don't ski tournaments".

 

Can you understand why someone actually reading your posts might think the otherwise simple question, might seem a bit disingenuous?

 

To be clear I, like you, also "...respect everyone’s choice to do as they wish.". Of course, including yours.

 

But there was NO choice for you to have to make.

 

There was no "mandate" for you! Because, in your own words "I actually don't ski tournaments".

 

 

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very odd to follow the logic in many of these arguments. since 2018 24 complaints in waterskiing. sounds like 24 too many.

I urge all the skiers on here who do not want to do the SS course to simply say no.

good for you!

now the rest of the ppl who wish to limit the liability our sport faces sign up and do SS

 

very easy

 

do or do not..... no one really cares

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To be "safety" so tournaments could run I needed to take the curriculum. ER trauma medical director, ER medical director, Advanced Trauma Life Support, Advanced Cardiac Life Support, Basic Life Support, Pediatric Advanced Life Support certified. I also work in a HIGHLY regulated industry.

 

I had drive an hour one way to go watch a video of basic first aid and CPR techniques filmed circa 1980 on VHS. Then we played around in the water. I think I took a paper test. Then I could be safety director. I did it--because this is what it took--and by comparison to what I do for work it was child's play.

 

I have mandatory sexual predator training annually as well (not to mention a shit-ton of other annual stuff like blood borne pathogens, active shooter, sexual harassment etc).

It's not the end of the world, it's not the start of the loss of all of my rights in society. If I want to practice medicine there are all kinds of things I have to do that take time--that I already know ridiculously well--I do them in order to continue to do what I love. All of our staff have to take these courses as well--think there is some liability mitigation? Sure there is. Think it might be useful if/when we have an active shooter--probably so.

 

Take shots if you want b/c I can't physically ski tournaments anymore. But if my bro Jim were alive, and my spine still worked we would do it and see the others who did on the starting dock--and hopefully run the purple line.

 

In some ways not my problem personally, but I hope the best for the sport. If it kills some membership, it's not worth it. Your sport will be defined by who participates moving forward.

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It is confounding why this beat to death old topic is getting any air play again. Must this be the annual piss and moan thread? There’s nothing said here that wasn’t already thrashed to death last year. It’s a requirement that is here to stay . Move on already…….. Don’t feed the beast.
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