Setting up new Vapor boot

[Slalom.Steve]

@jjackkrash - My cousin @RazorRoss3 has been running the new Vapor Boot bolted down since it came out. I will let him speak but I believe with the top laces not tight, he's had no issues coming out. He was also previously on the old Vapor boot so he ought to be able to give you a comparison.

[B_S]

@jjackkrashI pull both of my feet out of mine while in the water after a set (i use both front and rear). Haven't yet had a fall that needed a release, but I'm not concerned about it since I can get my feet out of them in the water without loosening them. I do have narrow feet though.

[ToddK]

Any ballers find a solution to having vertical play in the toe when using the Reflex release other than wrapping the front loop with tape or getting a machinist to grind the base of it down a few millimeters? I have extra parts so to make sure it's not operator error, I’ve tried moving the heal release forward, 2 different front loops, 2 different plates and 2 different 840 releases and have the same vertical play in every setup.

[jjackkrash]

I got my new boot and plate from Wiley's Saturday and it feels to me like I'm coming out in a good fall.  My boy agrees, so we are sticking with the Carbon plate.  We'll see I guess.  

[Ictjhawk316]

I have had 2 ski sets this year on the same vapor/ reflex set up I had last year……both resulted in a prerelease and not fun out the fronts going through the wakes….it seems to me that the back of the vapor boot (new one from last year) is plastic and the plastic wears out…..so I feel like maybe they just don’t get the same life as the harder reflex style bindings…..thoughts? 
 

im slightly terrified to ski same set up this year as neither of the OTFs were very fun 

[Horton]

@Ictjhawk316 The idea that your Vapor boot has worn out and caused a release does not make any sense. Obviously something went wrong. A prerelease is always a bad thing and should not happen.  Can you post photos of your set up?

[Ictjhawk316]

I can when I get back to my ski, but I wonder if the boot doesn’t seat as solid because the back plastic lip is worn out so it slides out then the release is just hanging there 

[UWSkier]

14 hours ago, Ictjhawk316 said:

I can when I get back to my ski, but I wonder if the boot doesn’t seat as solid because the back plastic lip is worn out so it slides out then the release is just hanging there 

I was finding that the release would slide off the back of my boot a bit too easily with the wishbone mounted in the specified holes in the G10 plate.  I moved the wishbone mount forward one hole on the plate, then moved the wishbone to the rear of the two holes on the mount. (so instead of having the mounts in the "size 13" hole, it's in the "size 12" hole on the plate, for my size 13 boots).

Boot is nice and tight now with some successful dock tests and way more force required to slide it off the back lip of the boot.

YMMV but that worked for me.

Edited May 4, 2023 by UWSkier

[teammalibu]

On 4/13/2023 at 7:41 PM, ToddK said:

Any ballers find a solution to having vertical play in the toe when using the Reflex release other than wrapping the front loop with tape or getting a machinist to grind the base of it down a few millimeters? I have extra parts so to make sure it's not operator error, I’ve tried moving the heal release forward, 2 different front loops, 2 different plates and 2 different 840 releases and have the same vertical play in every setup.

I lowered the toe bar on mine

by .030 by making shorter collar washers!

[Buxrus]

I finally made switch from reflex FB to the vapor boot.   I’ve been skiing reflex since the first iteration.   I am not unhappy with reflex.  I’ve NEVER had pre release.   All the equipment held up.  I just got curious.  
Went to  performance s&s last week.  Bill and mike spent a ton of time with me trying different bindings.   The vapor felt great.  
got the radar plate and put my reflex hardware on the plate.  3 sets in, already back to skiing my usual buoy count for this time of year.  
I do admit that the front toe region bothered me at first due to the sparse amount of boot under the toe bar.   But so far so good.  It’s really comfy and I really like the flat bottom. My 2/4 has actually improved. (Off side). 
my only concern…..I feel like the boa mechanism is the weak link.   I’m skeptical on the longevity aspect of the knob and cord.  ( low hanging fruit there guys) 

I do think I’ll look for a second toe bar.  Not sure which one to get.  
I do recommend trying this set up.  

[UWSkier]

36 minutes ago, Buxrus said:

I finally made switch from reflex FB to the vapor boot.   I’ve been skiing reflex since the first iteration.   I am not unhappy with reflex.  I’ve NEVER had pre release.   All the equipment held up.  I just got curious.  
Went to  performance s&s last week.  Bill and mike spent a ton of time with me trying different bindings.   The vapor felt great.  
got the radar plate and put my reflex hardware on the plate.  3 sets in, already back to skiing my usual buoy count for this time of year.  
I do admit that the front toe region bothered me at first due to the sparse amount of boot under the toe bar.   But so far so good.  It’s really comfy and I really like the flat bottom. My 2/4 has actually improved. (Off side). 
my only concern…..I feel like the boa mechanism is the weak link.   I’m skeptical on the longevity aspect of the knob and cord.  ( low hanging fruit there guys) 

I do think I’ll look for a second toe bar.  Not sure which one to get.  
I do recommend trying this set up.  

I'm running Boas from 2016 on my goof-around wide-ride ski and still good as new.  Plus, I believe they are warrantied for life BICBW.  I've heard of guys getting replacements for older boots for free.

I've had loads of these things on various bindings and gloves over the years without a single failure.  I'm confident in them, personally.

[jjackkrash]

I had one Boa fail (cord broke) and Radar gave me a whole new boot.  I do not not think that the warranty covered the "whole new boot" (just a new Boa) but that is what happened.    

[teammalibu]

If you are using the Vapor boot

with the reflex release make sure to keep an eye on the two screws that are on the toe piece of the boot. Mine were very loose and it allowed  the boot to flex upward and the toe of the boot was able to come out from under the toe loop of the reflex. Made for an ugly crash. I put some red loctite on those screws and will def keep a closer eye on them in the future!

Edited May 24, 2023 by teammalibu

[skialex]

@teammalibu I put some red loctite to those too since it was new. Later I found out that the screws are sticking out a little, inside the shell and from then after when I’m setting up a new boot, I grind the screws and putting red loctite. 

[Buxrus]

Thanks for all the intel guys.  I am in the habit of checking all the screws under the plate since i did this pretty often while running reflex.  

If i were to put a second toe bar on the plate, can someone suggest which one?   The one made specifically for the front boot but being a second bar OR the toe plate that is made for the back boot in a double reflex boot set up.   

Thanks for advice.   

[Buxrus]

@teammalibu so sorry I misread your post regarding the loose screws.  I thought you were referring to the toe bar screws.   I reread your post this morning before I skied.  Good call by you, they both were loose.   So now I will check all the screws periodically prior to skiing. 
honey moon period continues.   Comfortable, user friendly and still feeling like the off side is better.  

[jjackkrash]

With the new front boot and RTP on a single carbon plate (and no mechanical release), I had a typical (but not all that violent) crash this weekend and came right out of the boot in similar fashion to my old vapor boots.  Zero complaints so far.   

Edited May 30, 2023 by jjackkrash

[Sethro]

My new Vapor boot had it's first release test (no mechanical release) as I fell forward on my big trick doing a toe wake front.  Ski wasn't all the way around either, and the liner released no problem.  Had it not released, I'm certain I would have at least pulled my groin/hamstring area.

Edited May 31, 2023 by Sethro

[Killer]

On 4/6/2023 at 9:33 AM, UWSkier said:

already in the front hole on the mount (arrow in this photo).  Going to experiment a bit more this weekend.

How did you get those rear screws to. Bite?  I just mounted mine up and with the release bar mounted in the FWD most holes I can only screw the plate down if it's pushed all the way fwd so the screws don't interfere with the black release bar mounts with the white plastic screws.

My system also came with smaller head Philips screws vs the standard flat head ones youre using 

[aupatking]

On 4/13/2023 at 7:41 PM, ToddK said:

Any ballers find a solution to having vertical play in the toe when using the Reflex release other than wrapping the front loop with tape or getting a machinist to grind the base of it down a few millimeters? I have extra parts so to make sure it's not operator error, I’ve tried moving the heal release forward, 2 different front loops, 2 different plates and 2 different 840 releases and have the same vertical play in every setup.

If you have the toe bar from a Supershell you need to remove the spacers. I don’t remember the original Reflex boot toe bar having the spacers, so that one may be fine. If you have no spacers and still have the problem, try moving the wishbone to the forward holes. If that does not solve it, as mentioned above, maybe you could move the release mounting blocks one hole forward and the wishbone to the rear hole.

Edited June 23, 2023 by aupatking

[UWSkier]

11 hours ago, Killer said:

How did you get those rear screws to. Bite?  I just mounted mine up and with the release bar mounted in the FWD most holes I can only screw the plate down if it's pushed all the way fwd so the screws don't interfere with the black release bar mounts with the white plastic screws.

My system also came with smaller head Philips screws vs the standard flat head ones youre using 

The bottom edge of the reflex mount is notched for a screw head. Insert the screws into the slots before you tighten down those mounts, then place on the ski and tighten down. 

[Killer]

1 hour ago, UWSkier said:

The bottom edge of the reflex mount is notched for a screw head. Insert the screws into the slots before you tighten down those mounts, then place on the ski and tighten down. 

Awesome!  Thanks.  Okay I swapped out the screws for the little pan head ones and those I can get to move.  

[Killer]

anyone using the new Radar Carbon single plate for the reflex release & mounted a microjust on it?

I've been using microjust for years on my aluminum sequence plate and I'm worried about messing up this beautiful carbon plate with my dremel!!!!

https://radarskis.com/products/carbong10-front-plate-w-adaptable-mounting

 

[skialex]

@Killerthis beautiful plate will look more beautiful with a Mikrojust on… 😊

[BraceMaker]

@Killer take your old plate with the microjust use a screw, washers, and a nut to clamp the plates together through the current mounting hole or wherever makes sense and line it up.  Then use a vice with soft jaws or some clamps and secure it to your work bench.  Now you can use the old plate as a guide to cut your slot in the new plate and not make it look like you are a rabid beaver pecking holes.  I would put tape on both sides of the carbon plate first as well.

[Jsh809]

Hey guys, just picked up the vapor boot and radar G10 plate from my pro shop. I’m going to order a toe bar and release from reflex. Does the 930 release work or do I need to find the older 840 model? Thanks!

[Jsh809]

Well, I answered my own question. 930 release and the classic slalom toe bar, plus the Vapor plate. 

When setting the tension following the instructions for @Horton’s video, I’m lower than reflex’s recommended setting. About a 3.5 instead of 5. I think it’s the “hybrid” nature of this boot that causes this. When I started at the recommended 5, the binding didn’t release at all and it felt like the liner portion was “releasing” like it does when attached straight to the ski. 

anybody else find this to be true? I’m pretty sure I didn’t mess anything up, just curious.

[aupatking]

7 hours ago, Jsh809 said:

I’m lower than reflex’s recommended setting. About a 3.5 instead of 5. I think it’s the “hybrid” nature of this boot that causes this. When I started at the recommended 5, the binding didn’t release at all and it felt like the liner portion was “releasing” like it does when attached straight to the ski.

Did you replace the bungee with a static line (no stretch)? You’ll need to do that to transfer the release energy to the release mechanism. If not, you’ll likely release from the boot and the boot release from the ski

Edited July 20, 2023 by aupatking
Grammar

[Jsh809]

8 hours ago, aupatking said:

Did you replace the bungee with a static line (no stretch)? You’ll need to do that to transfer the release energy to the release mechanism. If not, you’ll likely release from the boot and the boot release from the ski

Thank you… I was curious about that and my pro shop didn’t mention it. I was just strapping the bungee as tight as I could.

[DanE]

The main reason you have to lower release tension is the Vapor boot creates a much longer lever to where the front hinges in a release due to its long flat (and stiff sole).

Reflex boot hinges from under the ball of your foot.