Setting up new Vapor boot

[bojans]

I am trying to setup the new Vapor boot with a Reflex release. I have the new plate from Radar and have put the front hoop at the 10-11 setting (size 11 boot) and the rear release in the 9-11 slot. I cannot get the release to click in and the toe of the boot is barely engaging in the front hoop. Do I need a different hoop or am I interpreting these bolt locations incorrectly?

 

First picture is of the boot and the front hoop, second is of another plate with the black screws showing where I have the release mechanism bolted.

 

[skialex]

Your front hoop (toe bar), is an older model with wider bases and an option of spacers to change its height. My favorite, I use this too and have some spare for future use.

Yours seem to be missing the spacers…

Either add the spacers, or buy a new taller one or if you can’t find them, use instead 2 M5 ss nuts.

Double check the bolt location too, cause it should fit…

Alex

[Deanoski]

holy stiff boots batman!

[bojans]

@skialex do you mean 1 nut on each side or 2 nuts on each side as the spacer?

 

Thanks!

[skialex]

@bojans 1 nut on each side. I’m sending you a pm…

[TimBeier]

Got mine a few days ago and i planned on using it in my reflex system. I noticed quite a bit of rotation of the boot, meaning it seems that the boot is not straight and the toe cap is twisted. I then mounted the boot as it is supposed to, directly to the plate. It seemes the front is about .4 inch twisted from center. So I cut myself a new plate with a waterjet machine with asymmetrical toe cap holes. Maybe it is worth a look on your bindings?

I think a right/left forward specific plate would have been a better option

[RGilmore]

@TimBeier

Take a close look at the very nose of your boot, way down low where it transitions 90-degrees to become the bottom/sole. You should see a small molded-in arrowhead pointing downward - that is the RADAR-determined center-line of the forward end of your boot. No idea how that will affect the rest of your calculations, but that's where RADAR says the center is, so if ya didn't know... now ya know.

[MickeyThompson]

@RGilmore the arrow is not on the new Vapor boot.

My friend is trying one and having trouble with getting the boot straight in the Radar supplied reflex style plate.

When in the reflex, the toe is pointing right (right foot forward boot).

When using the regular Radar plate and align screws with the marks on underside of plate the toe points straight. At least a 1/2” difference.

He has skied both plates and straight seems to perform lot better but he would like to use the reflex release.

 

 

[TimBeier]

Yeah, that‘s the problem I also had. @MickeyThompson

[RGilmore]

No alignment arrow? That's disappointing. Sounds like an oversight on the designer's part.

I guess, when I come to that dilemma in a month or two, I'll try to align the sole of one of my previous Vapor boots with the sole of the new one and transfer the mark to create one on the new boot.

[TimBeier]

@RGilmore as long as u not plan on using it in a reflex system you will be fine and just need to adjust and angle.

I am quit bummed that the Boot did not fit that great in the reflex, regarding they advertised it as a compatible and many people buying the boot for that reason.

You can stick with it and try if the angle doesn’t affect you or you make a new plate with asymmetrical Toe hoop holes??‍♂️

[Horton]

I think you guy are misunderstanding about the alignment of the boot. It looks like the vapor boot is angled out but if you ignore the asymmetrical shape of the toe cap and follow the center line of the boot is is straight.

[Wish]

Sorry, quick thread steal. Can anyone ID the model radar boots? They are 2016. Are there laces on lower foot?? They are XXL. Would that work for a size 11 foot? Asking for a neighbor.

 

 

[RAWSki]

Those look like a version of Radar's Pulse bindings, kind of their entry level boot.

[S1Pitts]

I bought two of those for my son and the boxes were labeled as model Prime. They are from 2017 and are XL. They feel a bit big on my size 12 foot but do cinch down a lot with the bungee cords making them skiable.

 

Back on topic.....does anyone know what the thread pitch/dia size is on the 5 mounting screws to attach the regular plate to the boot?

[skialex]

@S1Pitts I would say 3/8” and it’s a 8-32 like most screws on a ski.

[ShaunT]

Interesting to see all what others are doing with this boot. I just set this up also with the new Radar carbon plate and all new 840 release and new toe loop. Fits together nicely. I'm yet to ride it. Boot is very well built and comfy. I pulled the soft lining of the underside of the plate away cause I like a direct fit.

 

Couple of things to point out that I notice with mine that others might be able to talk to:

 

- Boot sole is flat, well flat around the edges edges and along side the side of the toes but down the centerline it is concave and the screws touch the plate not the boot. So flat yes, but note entirely.

 

- I do have about a 1.5mm gap from the boot to the toe loop. Not sure if I should be concerned about this but I don't want/like any movement.

 

- Can anyone whos already been using the boot speak to the longevity/robustness of the plastics used when using the release system? Just from setting it up it seems to impact on the plastics where as my Syndicate hardshell in the rear got scuffed up by the release but no where near gouged.

 

 

Cheers

 

 

[TimBeier]

@ShaunT Ur boot is not flat on the plate because of the screws heads sticking out. I had the same issue. U will need to use a 90 degree tapping drill to get the screws sit deeper in to the boot

[TimBeier]

* 90 degree countersunk drill

[ShaunT]

@gloresen is a brand new boot never used.

 

The binding mount screws aren’t in. It’s the 7 hex screws (along the edges abs rear). I managed to find my hex set and got them down flush so all good there. It actually pulled the base off the boot together flatter which is good.

 

Yep Achilles strap a mod I’m working on.

 

“The upper cuff needs to have the rear retention screw removed such that the back end of the cuff can articulate up far enough for the Silvretta Reflex clasp to attach to the shell's ledge unobstructed”

 

I tried this and yes it’s a better connection for sure but actually I think it’s worse overall and I’m not sure, unless someone can show me from Radar, that the rear screw should be out in a release setup. When out the articulation of the cuff actually moves the release back and forth which is not good.

 

Looking at Joel Polands setup as far as I can see back screw is in. Jason McClintock: back screw is def in.

 

Articulation off the cuff in my mind would actually hinder the release as the cuff being able to move so far forward won’t apply enough pressure on the release early enough. Were you are compensating for that is with strap around the top of the boot which holds it all together tighter and promotes less cuff articulation.

 

Toe loop is brand new so unsure of vintage in that sense but behind all new current hardware interesting there is a gap.

 

 

[ShaunT]

@TimBeier yep spot on all fixed now.

[ShaunT]

“ but with the cuff all the way back (in a locked position), can’t even clamp the Reflex down due to excessive force required”

 

That’s interesting. Mine is tight but I wouldn’t call it excessive force so again interesting to see how these setups differ. The plate hole positioning for the release is probably playing a part there.

[ShaunT]

Hey @brooks any advice for the OP toe loop fitment and rear screw in /out?

[Andre]

Gotta agree with Horton.Doesn't really look plug'n play...

[Horton]

@Andre no. it is plug and play

[KRoundy]

I mounted my boots on a Radar Sequence Plate and have been happily skiing them. They feel great right out of the box.

[ShaunT]

@KRoundy nice. Are you running reflex release or direct to plate?

[KRoundy]

No, I had a Reflex pre-release on me and I'm never doing that again. Was probably my fault (but you never really know) and at every wake crossing with that boot I had a little thought in the back of my head that wondered if it would do it again and I was tentative. Not a good way to ski. I'm skiing double-boot Vapors directly mounted on a Sequence plate. I cinch the boa laces down till they are snug and keep the upper bungee laces comfortable where I chinch them up but not to where there is no stretch left. In a bad crash I'm sure I'd either come out of them or the ski would stay on both of my feet depending on the type of crash. The Vapors feel so good and ski so well for me I actually prefer this setup compared to a Reflex for performance.

[ShaunT]

For those interested the toe loop gap issue was resolved by having my local stainless machinist trim down the base of the toe loop by 3mm. Fits perfectly.

 

I will however install the second reflex toe loop as in all honestly there isnt a lot of boot being held in there and if over time and wear it changes the second loop is a good insurance policy.

If you go that way I'd suggest not buying the new Radar plate and stick with or get a Reflex as the holes for both fittings are all there.

 

On my old boot I had two HO Syndicate toe loops that needed replacing. First was the original under engineered one which was later upgraded. Then the upgraded one which eventually had the rubber contact point with the boot wear down to where there was some play between the two.

 

I've also seen a video of the HO Syndicate boot pulling free of the stretched loop and the fall didn't look pleasant at all.

 

So not giving it a chance with this one.

[disland]

I am sure everybody has a freindly local neighborhood "stainless machinist"

[skialex]

Can be done with a Dremel grinder and a M5 die tool. Have done it when I wanted to shorten a toe bar as I had flattened a shell and there was a big gap between the top of the shell and the bar…it takes patience and some skill. A caliper will be a lot of help and masking the bar and keeping it cool during grinding phase is essential if you want a final result that looks like it was done by a machinist.

[Horton]

just a reinforce my theory that you guys are overthinking all of this....

 

over the winter I've been skiing with a traditional hard shell. Today I switched boots to the Radar. Bone stock... zero customization.... and went out and had best ride so far this year. Did I ski better because of the boot? IDK but I certainly didn't need to change the angle of the boot or grind the toe hoop or anything else to go out and ski as good as I can ski this time of year.

[Broussard]

@Gloersen Which release mechanism are you using?

[dchristman]

@horton can you reinforce your theory with some pictures of your stock setup?

[C5Quest]

@Horton. Which front toe loop are you using? I think one of the issues are people trying to mount with the wrong front metal toe loop? The classic Reflex boot and the new Supershell boot use two separate loops. I believe the super shell is the higher of the two. Not sure which one fits the new Radar Vapor boot when using the Reflex release set up.

 

 

[Horton]

I am not using super shell hardware

[skier2788]

This past weekend I skied my black "trick" binding one set got in the boat switched to my new radar boot. Checked my release and adjusted it then skied. Nothing else and ran the same passes.

[ShaunT]

@Horton wow congratulations on your customisation free skiing and confirmation bias. Super helpful.

 

 

 

 

 

[ShaunT]

@C5Quest gets it. This is a real thing. Plus let’s not factor out slight manufacturing inconsistencies, even by a few mil could make a difference. Yes it can happen.

 

Really the issue is Radar has released an awesome multipurpose boot but won’t give any guidance as to it’s setup for use in a mechanical release (some of its skiers have), which is fine for the more confident or experienced users but maybe not for the first timers with this setup/boot. It’s not a turn key solution from that perspective. Trial and error will ensue.

 

For instance: I’ve never run a Reflex anything. I’m coming from a Syndicate shell. I buy the plate, the release, and the toe loop. All current and brand new. Toe loop doesn’t fit buy a few mm. Looking around from what I can see its the older style toe loop with the removable spacer that most are using. Seems to fit perfectly. I could try and source one but quicker to just mod the new one I have. Problem fixed.

 

Can’t see how this is over thinking anything.

 

 

[rockdog]

@ShaunT Radar are not going to advise you how to set up their boot with some release system they do not sell nor manufacture. They may build it so it’s possible, but they’re not going to make a big noise about it. That’s for customers to work out for themselves.

[ShaunT]

@rockdog agreed. But it really is the issue for some never the less.

[Andre]

No freaking way i would ski with my boot only getting that far in the horseshoe.

[Booze]

Where's the best place to get the reflex hardware?....(more specifically the release mechanism and mount)

[mbabiash]

3 event store is my go to for reflex parts.

It’s through Bennetts.

 

[ALPJr]

Loving my Vapor Carbitex boots for a few years now but this sure looks like a lot of hit or miss with lots of moving parts. Reminds me a little of when the first iteration of the rear lace Animal boot was released around 2001. The lace and wrap had to be redesigned in the first year.

[UWSkier]

Was there ever consensus reached on which toe bar is required for the Radar G10 plate?

[C5Quest]

It’s the old one without the spacers….at least that’s what I used for my size 9. Is everyone else have the same issue with the boot being angled when mounted with the reflex system. Just mounted my size 9 on the radar plate with Reflex 840. LFF and it sits angled left. Same way on the reflex plate. Think I’m going to PM Brooks and ask him WTF?

[mcskier41]

my question is why take the chance of malfunctioning and having an injury from at pre-release? It ain't worth it

[Deanoski]

@mcskier41 my thoughts exactly. just mount them to the plate, they release just fine

 

 

why use the reflex 100yr old heel Technology , no forward pressure and no elasticity.

 

its all we have!! ( to bad NO $ in Waterskiing)

 

wish the technology we have in snow ski bindings was used. need a new heel design with forward pressure adjustments and elasticity in the heel. if you do not know what these futures are well the story ends here.

 

[Jaypro]

What about the MOB binding? I use it with a Reflex boot and a Connelly Sync boot. Seems to address a lot of your binding issues.