Guest Posted February 27, 2022 Share Posted February 27, 2022 We have recently acquired a 2006 ski Nautique 196 with perfect pass. Only had a couple sets on it last fall, but the speed seems to overshoot the set speed on PP We are used to ZO and wondering if a conversion is possible. I'm sure it's the original version of PP as the boat was in a warehouse for 15 years. Any advice is greatly appreciated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ MISkier Posted February 27, 2022 Baller_ Share Posted February 27, 2022 @Jody_Seal should be able to provide info. If I recall correctly, the ZO conversion is possible if the boat has the Excalibur engine. The worst slalom equipment I own is between my ears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pablo Posted February 27, 2022 Author Share Posted February 27, 2022 Yes it has the excalibur 330 engine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller skihacker Posted February 27, 2022 Baller Share Posted February 27, 2022 The older star gazer systems would take a while to settle if you throttle too far past the ski speed, with practice it does work pretty well, pp customer service is awesome and the newer software is supposed to settle much quicker, would also be a far cheaper solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller dbaconaz Posted February 27, 2022 Baller Share Posted February 27, 2022 is there a difference in skiing with the PP vs. zero off? For you average course skier? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Jmoski Posted February 27, 2022 Baller Share Posted February 27, 2022 On my old 2006 196, the original PP version 6.5 was easy to overshoot if you aren’t right on with how you throttle up. I upgraded to the latest GPS based Stargazer version and that in combination with mapping the course is a huge improvement for 30 mph and up. Upgrading to StarGazer is plug and play, i did it myself. The other issue you might have is the original PP gauge had moisture problems and eventually go bad, mine would fog up and become unreadable. That said, you can still over throttle it with SG - unlike with ZO where I’ve never seen it happen based on my experiences with my friends 2017 ProStar. Upgrading the 2006 to ZO will require upgrading the ECU on the engine, but the Excalibur engine in the boat is DBW. PM me is you want to talk about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller GaryJanzig Posted February 27, 2022 Baller Share Posted February 27, 2022 The newer software on Perfect Pass locks in quicker, but on an older boat it helps to know the base line rpm for each speed, and throttle it up as if you are driving manually. Not as easy as Zero off, but not bad. I had to drive a newer boat once where the zero off was not working(waiting on a part). The new boats are not designed to be driven manually. It was tough pulling a slalom skier for the one day we had to. I upgraded to the 9.2 and Zbox and it is pretty easy to lock in, and I usually get split times within +- .02 seconds of actual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Dacon62 Posted February 27, 2022 Baller Share Posted February 27, 2022 Have had both systems. Perfect Pass was OK and customer service was great. Could never get it set up were it did not come in hot on the short end of the course and then back off between 1-2 ball causing slack ruining half the passes of a set. Frustrating. Seemed to need more distance to settle so it worked better on the longer set up end of the course. Zero off, always consistent, no screwing around/tinkering. Was very happy to get back to Zero Off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ lpskier Posted February 27, 2022 Baller_ Share Posted February 27, 2022 If you ski tournaments and have the option, you will want ZO. You will never see PP in a tournament absent a rule change. Lpskier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Nickpep22 Posted February 27, 2022 Baller Share Posted February 27, 2022 Pp with zbox works really good not sure if you have that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller usaski1 Posted February 28, 2022 Baller Share Posted February 28, 2022 If you can do it, ZO is worth the upgrade, as long as you don’t have to swap the motor.. but for If you just need a new ECM and ZO, I would say worth it. I lucked out and found someone selling ZO, and the ECM I needed in 2918 for $15OO. Totally worth it.. but then that boat got destroyed in a tornado a year later! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pablo Posted February 28, 2022 Author Share Posted February 28, 2022 Thanks for all the info. The boat only has 30 hours on it so a new motor is out of the question. Waiting for a reply from ZO as the boat is right on the year cutoff for their compatibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller 6balls Posted February 28, 2022 Baller Share Posted February 28, 2022 I wanna say you can go back to '03 @thager? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller thager Posted March 1, 2022 Baller Share Posted March 1, 2022 2002 196 with the Excaliber engine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Inboardfix Posted March 1, 2022 Baller Share Posted March 1, 2022 Converting from Mefi 4 (ignition system on your 2006 SN) to E-control (ignition system required for ZO) requires several expensive components, i.e. wiring harness, ECM, throttle potentiometer along w/several less expensive components, i.e. brackets, sensors, connectors. Once this conversion is done the engine is compatible w/ZO. Since your engine is DBW you will not have to change the throttle body which saves approx $400. However, it isn't a cheap conversion. In round numbers you can expect $5000.00-5300.00 including ZO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller bdmz Posted March 1, 2022 Baller Share Posted March 1, 2022 Is it possible to retrofit 2003 6.0 LQ9? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Inboardfix Posted March 1, 2022 Baller Share Posted March 1, 2022 subtract $400 (throttle body not required) from estimate above: $4600-4900. @bdmz haven't converted a 6.0 LQ9 but since it was used w/ZO from 2007-2009 I'm sure it can be done. As w/the 5.7 it will require replacing your Mefi 4 ignition w/E-control. Your 2003 will require converting to dbw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller BraceMaker Posted March 1, 2022 Baller Share Posted March 1, 2022 @Pablo don't wait for ZO if you want to know the answer take a look at your ecu in the boat. This is like an android vs apple thing you either have one or the other but ZO has no clue which. PP might actually be more able to help you, bet in their head unit there is more information about its configuration and they answer the phone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller chrislandy Posted March 1, 2022 Baller Share Posted March 1, 2022 The latest PP worked great on mine last year, dead on set times, didn't bother with Zbox. I've not driven anyone shorter than 58kph/16m on it so can't comment on it's performance beyond that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Deanoski Posted March 1, 2022 Baller Share Posted March 1, 2022 Newest version of z box works great Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller jpwhit Posted March 1, 2022 Baller Share Posted March 1, 2022 For clarity's sake, the answer you'll get from ZO on compatibility will be based simply on whether your existing boat already has the e-controls ECU or not. ZO doesn't want to get into the business of what is required to modify an engine to make it compatible. What others on this thread have rightly pointed out, is your engine can be modified to make it compatible with ZO even if it doesn't currently have an eControls ECU. But that's not something ZO or PCM would officially say they support. Not at all implying it's a bad idea or bad way to go, just trying to make sure the options are clear. And I think it understandable why neither ZO nor PCM would want to officially support that, there's not likely a good business case for it. If you want to go the way of modifying your engine to make it compatible, that's very doable and proven safe, but either you'll have to have the ability to do that yourself, or be willing to take the boat to a shop with the experience to do it correctly. I would be surprised if you'd find many dealership service departments that would be willing to take that conversion on without support from PCM and ZO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller BraceMaker Posted March 1, 2022 Baller Share Posted March 1, 2022 @jpwhit and then if compatible the question always becomes should you even bother since its all just cost. Low hour boat, you can upgrade the PP software to current and use their customer service for like 150$ but if its thousands to upgrade why not use the boat a bit and flip it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ Rednucleus Posted March 1, 2022 Baller_ Share Posted March 1, 2022 If you like the boat, I would upgrade PP and see if you can get it dialed in to your liking. I was skiing every Wed behind a Sportster with older paddle wheel PP & Lxi with Stargazer Wake Edition; they both do fine in the course for our level of skiing, and I have had no problem changing to my weekend zero off pull. The Stargazer would come in hot if over throttled coming off the island, easy to change approach and ease off throttle once I was used to it and get good times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Ski_Dad Posted March 2, 2022 Baller Share Posted March 2, 2022 Take a picture of your display and module. If you have an old stargazer setup you can upgrade to zbox for around 400.00 - I have it and so does my friend with a 2005 response. Pretty close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller ALPJr Posted March 2, 2022 Baller Share Posted March 2, 2022 We use Stargazer and always within within.01 - .02 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Keith_Menard Posted March 2, 2022 Baller Share Posted March 2, 2022 @ALPJr and with any luck we will also be using zbox this season :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller teammalibu Posted March 2, 2022 Baller Share Posted March 2, 2022 @Pablo if you decide to upgrade your PP send me a msg! I can save you some $ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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