inversion tables

[6balls]

Hello all,

 

I'm a doctor, I treat people all of the time, but have my own inherited spine issues. Specifically at this time lumbar spine having already had a L2-4 laminectomy. I have different symptoms now, seems to be from levels lower. I made it a lot worse in tennis league this winter--though I had a good year on win/loss record...the last four weeks I couldn't "go" and if I can't "go" it's the real deal.

 

Traction at PT today seemed to be one of the first things to help some. Main symptoms are very low back into glutes constantly but the glutes are not sore it's a deep nerve thing probably related to my spinal stenosis--I just would love to avoid a 4th spine surgery neck and back combined.

 

Anyhoo...there is not a lot of evidence for the efficacy of inversion tables. Some find help, some not...it's anecdotal stuff.

 

Out of curiousity, how many ballers have benefit from inversion tables who have real lumbar disease documented by symptom correlation to MRI? If beneficial, has it allowed you to extend your athletic endeavors?

 

THX all.

[Wish]

That IS my go to. BUT use with caution. And a lot of it. U can F-up your back with them. Some rules.

1. NEVER go past 45 degrees.

2. Alway go slowly to get to 45 (takes me 20mn titling little by little with pauses between). I can feel my myofascia release at each tilt before I tilt further

3. Alway go straight to a flat surface after (bed couch) and stay there for 30+ mn. I go straight to bed as I do this at night

4. Never use the table if your back is already hurting. It is a preventative device NOT a solution to pain.

5. PM me if you want to learn how to fashion a belt system that pulls from the waste and NOT the ankles and knees.

6. As you tilt slowly, try to relax and let the stretch happen.

 

Buy used. Tons of them out there on the dirt cheap.

 

If you have more money then ingenuity, buy a seated inversion table. 1000 times better then flat if you don’t modify the flat.

 

Edit; as stated below. Inversión tables are not for everyone or every back condition. Been using one as per physical therapist specific instructions for 20yrs. Life saver to say the least and have had no need for surgeries according to my orthopedic surgeon because of it.

[James]

I am a 61 year old MD and very healthy and physically active I am currently dealing with an acute L5-S1 herniation that became symptomatic about 4 weeks ago. I have moderately severe right side radiculopathy involving the L5 nerve root. I have little personal experience with tilt tables but if you in fact have spinal stenosis I know of no studies that show that traction will sufficiently decompress the spinal cord or cauda equina due to spinal stenosis. Usually opening up the stenotic area through surgery is the treatment. If you have compression of the nerve root in the foramen ( overwhelmingly most commonly caused by herniation of the nucleus pulposus at L4-L5 or L5-S1) then traction and lumbar flexion will help open up the foremen to give some relief of nerve root. Be certain your symptoms are caused by stenosis first and not a disc that snuck up on you. A 2 week

Prednisone taper helped minimally. Gabapentin has been of great help. I am going to stick with 6-12 weeks or conservative treatment to avoid a procedure. I hope this helps and wish you the best of luck doctor.

[6balls]

@james if I take prednisone I'm pain free...could play you in tennis tonight--but I can't stay on that long term as you know.

 

I'm taking gabapentin, helps take some edge off depending on activity which I have kept to a bare minimum for a month. I really don't want another procedure, either...though it's likely inevitable with time so if the conservative stuff doesn't work (I tried all before my prior surgeries) I will bite the bullet and get it done...life is short.

 

@wish thanks for the advice. Traction in PT they put your legs up with knees bent like seated. I was there for 15'' thinking about how inversion tables should be then in seated fashion. Yes I will look used there are nice ones out there on the dirt cheap I've looked. If this traction helps in PT I may bite.

 

So far C6-7 discectomy, C4-5, 5-6 fusion, L2-4 laminectomy. All very successful in the short to medium term...but I always went back to my baseline abusive activities once the pain was gone. This time may have to be different as much as I hate to admit it. It's nice to walk to the mailbox pain free...it sucks when even that hurts.

 

Just curious on other skiers responses to inversion who have documented lumbar disease.

 

 

[drfred]

I'm a doctor, my wife is a physical therapist. I've got some arthritis L4-L5-S1. In an effort to get ready for ski season, I wrecked my lower back doing the core synergistics and yoga in p90x. I tried to (snow) ski on it and ended up not being able to weight bear. I tried a chiropractor (friend of mine and valedictorian of his class) who first got my SI joints and vertebrae back in line a (helped a lot and relieved spasm of the para spinal muscles) but then ended up putting me on a rack. Like inversion it puts traction on my lumbar spine, separates the vertebrae then he pulls it side to side. He has also an inversion rack but didn't use it on me. I never really had any neurological symptoms but I was really happy with the results of his treatment. I'm back to my chronic baseline, I still make some noise when I bend over but can generally stretch it out. I made it out skiing by Mid January and got 250k vertical feet in before the season ended (today). I still go back for an occasional touch up. Yes there's precious little hard data for any of these treatments but its worth a try and sure beats surgery.

[James]

If you are sure your sx are due to stenosis then I would recommend titrating the gaba up to 1800 mg/day assuming you tolerate it. Above 1800mg really does not improve efficacy. Stay on the gaba as long as your sx improve and you at no time have muscle weakness. Muscle weakness is a red flag. As you know stenosis is a structural impingement that will not spontaneously resolve unlike a disc which will in 90% of cases. Also anytime a patient has sx of stenosis you always need to consider God forbid a mass

[lpskier]

Whatever happened to “Take two aspirin and call me in the morning?”

[Horton]

 

[Horton]

you guys know who Rodger Teeter is right???

[Wish]

DO NOT listen to Mr Teeter on how to use an inversion table. Unless you’d like to make you back far worse. Why do you think there’s so many used inversion tables out there for penny’s on the dollar.

[WDKinley]

I'm not listening to Mr Teeter tho... I'm listening to Rylie ;D

[6balls]

@james I get it. Before my last surgery I titrated gabapentin to 2400. My neurologist friend basically said although the max listed dose is 3600 no one can really absorb that...so 2400 at absolute max so that is where i landed and luckily I tolerate gabapentin just fine. Right now I'm at 900 daily (300 TID) in this situation and just beginning PT with traction in addition to all the other exercises I do to try to improve the situation.

 

Time will tell but my gut tells me I'm headed toward another decompression.

[MattP]

Teeter owned EP skis!

[Horton]

Roger was one of the original founders of the waterski industry in Seattle along with Denny, Pat, and Herb.

[MichaelGoodman]

I do not know of any who had back surgery using them but I do know

three different people who were told they needed surgery and avoided

it after using a inversion table. One was told by his chiropractor that if

everyone used them he would be out of business .

[brody]

Spinal stenosis at l5, laminectomy surgery 3 yrs ago. My ortho surgeon suggested I use a table and build up to 10 minutes inverted. Recently bulged my disc at L4 and I use the table daily to relieve pain.

I also received encouragement from a former world level skier who was an ortho surgeon to use a table

If you are thinking about it, don’t ask people in the internet, ask your doctor

[Wish]

There’s also a laundry list of life change you gotta make in how you do day to day things how you get in and out of a car. Inversion table alone won’t do it. It’s not the silver bullet. It’s just another tool in the arsenal of ways to improve, protect, and strengthen you back/core.

 

[hammerski]

Roger Teeter and Dan Miller created Winlock Waters 3 ski lake site in Washington. Roger also has a home on lake 1. Great guy, still skiing!

 

[mike_mapple]

my dad used an inversion table his whole career, I used one while playing college basketball, I sold mine when my dad passed, worst decision ever. I think they are perfect for anything.

[Booze]

Like Wish said, I believe going to 90 is too much.

I do believe it has been beneficial, and I use mine occasionally during ski season when I can tell my spine is taking a beating.

 

[jjackkrash]

I am getting Lumbar 2-3 laminectomy and decompression surgery in early March.  What is the most aggressive but realistic time frame to get back on the water?  Thanks in advance,.  

[swbca]

Back on the water in 4 weeks with some casual skiing; building back to your normal best skiing in 3 months after healing and strength recovery.   Many variables but that's what I would wish for.

[Rednucleus]

@jjackkrashWhat does your surgeon say?

[jjackkrash]

16 hours ago, Rednucleus said:

@jjackkrashWhat does your surgeon say?

I got some ranges for recovery and types of activities in our consult but it was not as specific as it could have been.  I won't talk to him again until day of and post op, but, in the meantime, it would be nice to have some real world examples while I sit here suffering and dream about skiing again relatively pain free.  Whatever the time frame, I fully intend to be a motivated and disciplined mf'er on the rehab end to minimize the actual down time so I can safely get back in the water.  

[brody]

My surgery took me 6 months to come back from.  Soooo many different factors to consider, activity level before surgery, weight, how well the surgery goes, how good you respond to rehab.  I was very active, not overweight, very flexible.  I was told by the surgeon for my situation, physio would not do much, but to find a physio that likes the gym and focus on strength training.  I went to a well respected physio who was also a buddy.  He was also a powerlifting coach.  About 4 years after, still going strong

[6balls]

@jjackkrashnone of us doctor types are going to give you an aggressive expected return due to too many factors at play.  Your surgeon will be also conservative in that regard--he/she has zero vested interest in getting you on the water sooner, and 100% interest in a good surgical outcome.  We love skiing, but it's only skiing--first world problem.  Heal up properly, come back strong (I'm a veteran of 2 low back, 2 neck surgeries), rather than chance screwing it up.  Work on your core, your balance etc.  Coach and drive for those around you until you are cleared.

[jjackkrash]

4 hours ago, 6balls said:

@jjackkrashnone of us doctor types are going to give you an aggressive expected return due to too many factors at play.  Your surgeon will be also conservative in that regard--he/she has zero vested interest in getting you on the water sooner, and 100% interest in a good surgical outcome.  We love skiing, but it's only skiing--first world problem.  Heal up properly, come back strong (I'm a veteran of 2 low back, 2 neck surgeries), rather than chance screwing it up.  Work on your core, your balance etc.  Coach and drive for those around you until you are cleared.

I hate hearing such solid advice.  But thanks.  🙂  

[Ski_Dad]

I use an inversion table and had an MRI in 2012 - it helps me a lot when I do use it, in fact it was the ticket for me getting over sciatica back then.   I find that kettle ball squats help me a lot to keep that area tight.