Stack - What's the point?

[JAS]

Optimal energy transfer

[dchristman]

The taller the stack the greater the potential energy added to the system and the higher it is possible to swing. It is like a swing!

 

Of course, like a swing, timing and rhythm are also essential to success.

[dchristman]

I hate to contribute to your procrastination with my own procrastination, but how much longer are you going to keep us in suspense on your perspective?

[MarkM]

1. Grab 2 heavy dumbells. Hold them down by your sides.

2. Walk across the room with your hips/ass behind you.

3. Then walk across the room "stacked" (your hips inline with your shoulders and feet).

Tell me which way works better.

[dchristman]

... 4. Do it stacked but compressed

5. Do it like an I-beam!

[jayski]

So how does Jamie's 'stack' equate to what is being stipulated here? Seems more opposing no?

 

[Horton]

@Jayski

 

Super interesting question. It looks like Jamie is dragging his ass. In fact I think a lot of skiers wrecked themselves trying to copy what they thought Jamie was doing.

 

I do not think i can totally decode Jamie's position but if you look closely you will notice that the handle is always on this thigh at the first wake meaning that his mass is not really back. His stack is not what most modern skiers think of as an ideal stack but at centerline his center of mass is over his front foot and his front knee is way forward (I think). (it was also still the days of PerfectPass)

 

I think we could devote a whole other thread to Jamie's technique

 

 

[MDB1056]

LOVE that clip

[MarkM]

@jayski

 

Certain elite athletes do things their own way. It doesn't mean it works for the rest of us.

Jamie is a tremendous athlete.

 

 

 

[Drago]

I agree with @MarkM , so don't force yourself into the super tall Lucky or Caldwell stacked position if you are more comfortable in a more athletic/open stance

[ReallyGottaSki]

I concur, some witness Jamie's compression and forward shoulders and think that validates their azz-back stance, but there is a whole lot of deliberate recline with his torso to get the hips leading many look through, and can't replicate

[Adam Caldwell]

@Jayski - JB is highly miss understood. My deduction of his skiing in general is that his timing was SO GOOD that he basically was looking to unweight the ski into the first wake. The boat was ALWAYS leaving him through the back of the ball, so the rope was tight and he was just along for the ride.

 

His "extension" and drive was very quick because he had the line so early off the ball and was picking up the swing before the centerline - allowing him to be unweighting the ski super early. He was successful in getting into a deep lean because his connection to the line was rock solid and he never separated early. A deep leveraged position can often have the appearance of a more 'compressed' style.

 

Here's a shot of JB from a higher camera angle. Doesn't look to me like he is "trying" to compress in the least.

 

 

 

You have to remember that when your watching guys run 41, there is going to be compression in the body. But that is not at all the "goal". Reality is there is a ton of "force" that your dealing with. Even when I've run 41 at 34 standing as tall as I possibly can everywhere, I watch video and I am "compressed" compared to what I am doing at 32-39. So, be very careful in believing what you "THINK YOU SEE" a top end skier doing at their top tier passes. Watch them during the openers. Thats where they're working on the things that matter and that they have much more control over.

 

 

Needless to say, he figured out how to make it work and work well. He talked about skiing more like he was riding snow skis. The downside to that is you end up asking your back to handle massive torsional loads. Overtime this is not going to last and I believe one of the reasons like many skiers in that era, stopped skiing.

 

I want longevity, safety and to ski pain free with minimal injuries. 10 years ago I started looking more closely at the skiers still running 39 and 41at 36mph in their 40s & 50s. That's what I aim to be be able to do. Ever since, I've focused on nothing but the mechanics that will both protect my body AND make slalom 'easier' and more consistent/repeatable. I try to share the things I have learned (the hard way) to help prevent others from walking around with back pain the rest of their life.

 

 

 

[Skoot1123]

@adamhcaldwell - YES. That is money. That technique will keep us not only skiing until we are “old” but also helps us improve as we get older.

 

When I first started trying 32 off I felt like the less I “tried” the better it was. Efficiency - of which stack is the building block - is what I was feeling. As we continue to build and improve our stack/alignment we can continue to improve.

 

Own your stack - own your efficiency.

[RGilmore]

@jayski

I remember back in the late 90's or early 2000's, in a magazine article about Jamie B. (and others skiing compressed styles), Jeff Rogers (who advocated a more rigid stack like his own) was quoted saying, "At the end of the day, them boy's backs are hurting."

[Adam Caldwell]

@RGilmore - he wasn't lying!

[MarkM]

If you want to excel and protect your body and skiing career get those hips up and ski stacked. It's more efficient, safer and more consistent. Lots of guys with bad form excel quickly due to athletic ability but then hit a wall and stay there a loooong time. I see it all the time.

I don't care what you do around the buoy. This sport is all about behind the boat.

My suggestion is to mimic Bob Lapoint, Jeff Rogers, Lucky Lowe, and Chris Parrish.

 

[Wish]

For decades I always thought the "hits" Jeff R would take out of the ball would eventually destroy his body. And that he looked like 2x4 he was so straight which just seemed not to be right either. Man did I have all that backwards. I can only hope to get to the point of being stacked like Jeff and Caldwell manage to pull off. Co-world record holders I might add..and not by accident. At one point in this vid, they refer to Jeff as “ The stick on tour ” Assuming that means his stacked and tall stance. He’s had a loooooong career.

 

 

 

[dchristman]

It seems that the "towline tension" thread may have superseded this thread, but I still keep thinking about it. I have a new, more active analogy. A poor stack is like a worn cam follower that reduces performance.

[Adam Caldwell]

@dchristman It might be closer to a broken timing chain!

[Wish]

What’s the point...so you can pull a couch in through the front door! Still kinda waitn on the author of this thread to fill us in with his 2 sentences.

 

 

[dchristman]

@Gloersen in either case performance may be enhanced with the proper BMP in ski or pill form.

[Bruce_Butterfield]

@Gloersen @dchristman both of you guys

https://giphy.com/gifs/dosequisgifstotheworld-no-facepalm-smh-ADr35Z4TvATIc