Sure Path

[lpskier]

Has anyone set up Sure Path on an 8 ball course? If so, what finally worked?

[C5Quest]

Not yet. We are exploring that option for next season at our Avon, CT site...better known now as 8Von

[lpskier]

So it appears that all you need to do is map the outside exit gates, like mapping ZO on an 8 ball course. The program knows it’s an 8 ball due to the distance between exit gates.

[C5Quest]

Will pass that along. Not sure our timeline for implementation. We talked for next season sometime.

[Jtim3032]

@lpskier In boat lane tracking mode, Sure-Path only needs to know where the entrance gates are and a bearing to work out the centre line of the course. When the course is mapped, you are effectively marking two start points and a bearing between the two. Thus mapping the outside gates works... a lucky break really. I am pretty sure ZO does the same for an 8 buoy course. You can try for yourselves. In your back garden, map a course just 25' long, then walk up and down (first set the boat threshold speed to 0). It will show your deviation from a centre line quite happily.

[jayski]

@Jtim3032 so was this tested on boys leaving the pub after a football game for total path deviation on the walk home?

[Jtim3032]

@jayski haha...definitely a re-ride on many occasions like that!

[lpskier]

Mapped the exit gates on both ends and Sure Path worked like a charm.

 

FYI, we borrowed the system from @liquid d And intentionally left the base station set up at his house, five or six miles from LaPoint Ski Park. Still worked like a charm.

[jjackkrash]

Mine is sitting in a box waiting for spring. I can't wait to play with this.

[lpskier]

@jjackkrash Send it to me and I’ll break it in for you. I hear they work best after four months of steady use.

[Laz]

A few questions came up recently about Sure-Path or SkiPath. We are trying to decide if we should get the system for the upcoming season or hold off a bit.

 

I haven't had a chance to see it in action.

 

I have heard that a lot of tournament passes were ultimately disqualified because of driving issues and that something like Sure-Path might be the answer. However, it could a lot harder to get used to compare with the switch to ZeroOff.

 

So,

 

1) is it coming to tournaments? Is it inevitable?

2) will it mess drivers up (at least at first)?

3) should we start practicing with it (driving and skiing)?

4) Will the course path be called out like ZeroOff timings allowing for an immediate re-ride?

5) Will rules need to change?

[jjackkrash]

Sure Path doesn't drive the boat (at least not yet), it just measures and reports boat path. So it is not like ZeroOff in that respect.

[lpskier]

@Laz

1. Yes, it’s coming. It will be required equipment at R tournaments in the reasonably near future.

2. It won’t “mess up drivers.” It will show them exactly what they are doing, right or wrong.

3. It won’t hurt your skiing and it will improve your driving. Better driving facilitates good skiing.

4. Yes.

5. Maybe, maybe not. Rules to implement its use are being written now.

[Chad_Scott]

@Laz. It is coming to tournaments. There is a current proposal to make mandatory for a Class R event. Either way it is coming. It will not mess drivers up. Will only help drivers to improve. It is a great tool if you are serious about being a good driver. Instant feedback and tons to study and learn from after the event I don’t want to drive practice or ski without it. It answers lots of questions pretty quickly. There are current rule change proposals and yes it will immediately call for a re ride is some instances. I thing Ski Path and Sure Path are awesome. Actually fun to drive with

[Laz]

Thanks for the replies.

 

Technical question: I ski on a lake with three shared courses. Can one ground station be setup and then anyone who wants to use it install a receiver and cell phone in their boat?

[Chad_Scott]

Yes

[Horton]

@Laz

yes

[klindy]

@Laz or there may be a base station already close by that you can access and not even need one. The RTK technology really came into play with the proliferation of drones. So there is a whole network of base stations across the country. Some are free some are not.

[Horton]

@klindy I'm 99% sure that the system only works with a dedicated sure path base station

[lpskier]

@Laz Yes. You can use one base station for several courses. In fact, your state DOT may have a nearby GPS station. If they do, you might not need to buy a base station. You can tie into DOT and use them as your base. Then you only will need the boat rover and one phone. Get a $10 per month Redbug plan for the phone. Using a wifi hot spot on another phone is cheaper but more frustrating.

[lpskier]

@horton Incorrect.

[klindy]

@horton I’m 99% sure it’ll work fine with them. Jerry Jackson has tested them extensively in FL with RTK base stations 10-20 miles away.

 

The southern region will be forwarding a proposal to use a boat path monitoring system for all class R events starting this calendar year. With highly recommending using it for Class L and lower. The most common system is SurePath but others are acceptable.

[Horton]

@Jtim3032 can you clarify?

[Chad_Scott]

Actually @Horton the sure path will work with any RTK base station. Jerry has used one miles from his house. I believe scoke has found one near okeeheelee that will work for them

[Horton]

Ok. I have been wrong before.

[Chad_Scott]

In that case you can just purchase the rover if you have access to the base station. Base station Jerry used is like 12 miles from his lake. Pretty cool. I guess the only drawback is that you don’t have any access if it goes down for some reason

[paul]

Any update on whether there is a no cell service option?

[Chad_Scott]

Ski path works great where there is no cell service. Been working with them and Jerry. System works well utilizing radio signal from base station to the boat. Shoot me an email and I can get you some info. Cscott1968@hotmail.com

[Laz]

Wow. Really interesting. Thanks.

[Laz]

I found this list of RTK networks:

 

LEWIS

BRANDT

CANNET

TOPNET

SMARTNET

 

There is a SMARTNET station about 6km from my lake.

 

Will that work?

[mmosley899]

Anyone needing an antenna mount for their Sure Path, I have them available now...

[Skirvind]

 

Here is a list of free bases by state you can use as a starting point

https://www.gpsworld.com/finally-a-list-of-public-rtk-base-stations-in-the-u-s/

[lpskier]

@mmosley899 Picture?

[klindy]

@lpskier the link to the webpage with a picture is in the comment.

[mmosley899]

@lpskier JJ is headed your way this week with one I just made for him...

 

http://www.mobsystemrelease.com/new-products/surepath-antenna-mount

[lpskier]

@klindy Duh. Silly me.

[Horton]

I called Will Bush this morning about public RTK. He confirmed that yes it is possible but that it may be challenging to find reliable free RTK base stations depending on where you are.

[MichaelGoodman]

Any on know how much the system is if you do not

need the base station and a second phone?

[klindy]

@MichaelGoodman my understanding is you buy the “extra receiver”.

[MichaelGoodman]

Thanks @klindy I know a complete system is about

$2000 any idea how much a "extra receiver" cost?

[jjackkrash]

Pricing is on the website:

 

http://www.sure-path.com/pricing.html

[rayn]

This gets more interesting for me if I can just use the Massachusetts rtk. However it looks like the closest station is 21 miles away. Is that doable?

[Horton]

@Ryan theoretically maybe but practically no

[liquid d]

ya know , it was almost worth the 2grand just to prove to all my ski buddies what I've been telling them all along.....that I am the best damn driver they've ever had!

[MichaelGoodman]

@rayn I would be amazed if Natick/Framingham does not have a tower I am

a builder in Plymouth and spoke with my engineer you uses them there are

three in Plymouth alone (biggest town in the state land wise) I luckily have

one less than two miles away.

[lpskier]

The issue with proximity to the base is the weather. For whatever engineering reason, the weather should be around the same at the base and the rover.

[Horton]

@lpskier

James explain to me that as the distance between the rover and the base unit increases the math becomes more complicated (or some other technical complicated explanation). The last time I asked him about it he was only comfortable with a distance of 6 km or 10 miles between the two stations. Beyond that the accuracy of surepath was possibly diminished.

[Laz]

There seems to be pretty wide coverage of Southern Ontario with RTK networks. It's not clear to me if these systems are passive (like GPS), create your own (Sure-path) or sign up for a service (like LTE).

 

There is one that's about 6km (3.7 miles) from our lake.

 

(FYI, 10k = 6 miles)

[jayski]

@Horton "comfortable with a distance of 6 km or 10 mile"s

 

is that like 10.25m or 28off type lengths?

 

Just may have got that backwards sir

[lpskier]

I’ve been told that you can use a base station as far away as 25 miles but I’ve never tried it. I did set one up with the base station six miles away and it worked reasonably well, though there were times when the system just wouldn’t work and I have no idea why. If in 1973 and 1974 I had any clue that water skiing would become so highly technical I would have considered an engineering school. My common disclaimer is “I was an English and history major.”