Deep water starts

[NorCalRec]

I've been slalom skiing for recreation since I was 15. At 46 now I wasn't able to get out of the water on my 66 Obrien Seige this passed week. I ended up dropping a ski and then had no troubles cutting as usual. Such a sad day for me :(

I'm 6'1", 165#, in relatively good shape. I ski behind an open bow, I/O, Monterey Edge 180 with a 6 cyl VP. Am I just old now and need one of those fat skis that don't allow me to cut? Do I need to learn to start with one foot in one foot? Or, is it time for a bigger boat :) with more power? Any other suggestions are welcomed.

[mmskiboat]

definitely a DD ski boat, you will pop right up and if not you will have a great ski tug...

[ski6jones]

Go bigger, ski or boat. Was trying to pull a buddy up on an older tri-hull bass boat with 150 Johnson. Never were successful. I upgraded to a 94 Nautique and we got him right up. More power made all the difference, although a slightly longer or wider ski should also work at a fraction the price of a more powerful boat.

[2Valve]

165# is light enough for a V6 but an Inboard (V8) will definitely get you out much quicker.

[NorCalRec]

So.... consensus is a new boat. I'll inform the wifey :wink:

[ejj]

I often ski behind a Volvo 4.3. When the boat is heavy with gas and people, getting up requires careful technique and sometimes an easy-up handle.

 

I always deep water start with my rear foot in the strap. Keeping the ski at a good angle for getting up while allowing boat acceleration is much easier for me with both feet connected.

 

Getting up behind a DD or VD much easier.

[DW]

If it is a wife convincing decision, absolutely you need a new DD boat.

[Rednucleus]

How about a quicker prop if the wife does not go for the boat option

[NorCalRec]

Good note on the prop, hadn't thought of that. Wife isn't necessarily a hard sell on a new boat. I have an AL, 3-blade prop and if memory serves, I have a 16" pitch.

[skibrain]

Experiment on props. Lower pitch, stainless, four blade, are all things to explore and I’m sure there are those out there ( not this forum) who have recommended props for your I/O set up.

[Fast351]

I'm 48, 205#, and dual boot guy. I am certainly not the best skier in the world, but deep water starts are no issue. Of course my boat is the vaunted SN196.

 

More power is where it's at. And of course if your driver isn't going wide open, that's the #1 adjustment.

 

If you're stuck with your current I/O, you might look at a different prop. Most factory props are built for top speed but lousy for digging out of the hole, and if it's aluminum, the blades flex. Down 2 in pitch, switch to stainless, and you'll be happier coming out of the hole. Just watch your RPMs since the engine will likely pull past redline with less pitch.

 

[BlueSki]

Don’t mess around with props, if you can get a new boat, go buy one. The money you spend on a prop before you ultimately buy a new boat could get you a new ski too. Your only on this rock for so long. Have fun!

[gsmith795]

@Fast351 is it true a driver should go full throttle on slalom starts? Or is that just in this example with an underpowered boat? My brother and dad usually drive when I’m skiing and then definitely don’t go wide open. I’ve got an ‘86 Ski Nautique, for reference... guessing WOT isn’t necessary for a DD but how much should they use?

[BraceMaker]

1. Get a new fat ski that does cut. 2. Take your ski for some lessons on a course. 3. Replace your boat when you decide you love skiing behind a ski boat

This is sort of a cost/benefit equation

[ScottScott]

Most of my 1st couple years skiing (only 5-6 years ago) was behind an 18' sea ray bow rider with just 3L/4 cylinder I/O. In fact, I was skiing through the course at 28mph behind it. No issues getting up on a ski that was a little small for me (I was 160-170lbs on a 65.5 elite.) Even with a boat full of people. It took forever with a couple people in the boat, but it eventually got me up. If anything I struggle with too much throttle on any ski boat. Its all technique. There are a lot of advantages to a ski boat if you get serious about skiing, but it isn't necessary for getting you up, and just casually having fun. Of course new stuff is fun....especially new boats. So if that excuse works to convince the wife......then yeah, you need a ski boat.

 

@gsmith795 no, wide open throttle on a DD ski boat is too much for most. I need about as little throttle as you can give. Behind my old bow rider it was definitely full throttle.

[HMan66]

@gsmith795 the pull up depends on the skier. I’m 225#. When I say ‘hit it’ I want full power to get me up faster with less strain on my lower back. Most of the guys I ski with are much lighter and like a gradual throttle up.

[Jetsetr]

Only need gentle throttle to 3000RPM to yank me out behind my Malibu with a 4 blade SS prop that’s pitched for Denver that now lives at 740ft above sea level..

 

I would look at re propping. They’re less than $200 in aluminum and will make a world of difference. DD boats are awesome but work your way into them if that’s they way you want to go. In the meantime have some fun with what you have.

[BraceMaker]

@gsmith795 when people say full throttle, it is rarely full throttle. Most ski boat throttles "full" is way past 90 and then down forwards. In reality you nearly always go from neutral to in gear and let the trans grab then you push forwards till the engine RPM hits a good spot to accelerate and then you push it forwards a bit more into cruise control engagement.

 

When someone wants it harder all you're really doing is going much more suddenly from gear to say 3400 RPM but I've never once seen someone put the handle all the way to the stop on a pull out on a ski boat.

 

I/O's and Outboards sure - you usually have a sort of short throttle throw and then the bow just shoots up in the air and it hangs there.

[DW]

@NorCalRec - If there is a lot of bow rise, or the boat is not planing out as you try to get up, I would consider adding weight at the nose to see if that helps. Also make sure if the boat is equipped with trim it is fully down. Are you sure the engine is in good health?

 

I will add that if you are on this forum, you probably have more than a casual ski mindset. With that in mind, moving to a DD ski boat would not be a fools errand. There are numerous used ski boats available so it may not be as big a financial outlay as one would anticipate. There are many 90's and up great skiing machines. I will say many a spouse has required the gentle convincing that a DD ski boat is the way to go, mine included decades ago and she subsequently became a ski addict.

[ReallyGottaSki]

It's rare someone asks for all of it a second time behind my boat.

But that said, I concur, at your weight and experience, you should still be getting up behind that boat well.

A vest with good bouyancy, and good prop, take all extra crap out of the boat, it makes a difference.

Technique of a high tip out of the water and shorts that don't scoop water help also

 

Prop it so it's just above max rpm when empty with one person, it will be stronger at all speeds when loaded, and stay safe.

Don't be afraid to spin it.

A 4.3 likes 4800 rpm operating max.

Engine won't magically frag at 4900, it needs a good 1000 more to even begin valve float , never mind rapid disassembly

 

And no it won't use all that much more gas skiing, vacuum will go up, throttle will not be as open, its similar BTUs expended for the same work done.

 

Confirm pitch, 16 sounds irregular number

 

[75Tique]

Cheapest, quickest, easiest fix. If you have a rear boot, replace it with a rear toe plate. If you have that already, that's better. Start with your rear foot out. MUCH!!! easier. No back foot pressing the back of the ski down into the water. Stretch your back leg out behind you, toes pointed back. Not only is back of ski not being pushed down, the thigh of your back leg helps push you out of the water. Less stress and strain on your back.

Just rest your chest on your front leg knee. Very easy to start this way. Better way to go than dropping $80,000 on a new boat or even $400 on a new prop.

[Fast351]

@gsmith795 No you don't need WOT on a boat with enough power. My wife usually drives me and I just tell her to "roll into the throttle". It winds up being about 3/4 throttle to make sure the PerfectPass has enough throttle to work with but it usually takes her 3 seconds to get there.

 

Although some people do like WOT with direct drives.

[Johnseed]

I've been slamming behind a searay 180 with just a 4 cylinder 3.0L. I'm 6' and average 225#.....I'm on a Radar Theory with double vector boots and while it is a struggle it can be done. Here's the difference.....stay in a ball over your back foot until you feel the ski come on plane before trying to stand up. Behind my boat about 13 seconds to standing.....behind a friends Malibu Response only 3.5 seconds. Hope to buy my first DD later this summer.

 

I tried a 68" Seige a few years back and didn't care for it and the narrow tail made the starts even longer FWIW.

[MDB1056]

Go ski behind a DD boat a few times and see if you pop right up or if still having problems . If the latter it’s not a boat issue. If you pop up then you’re prepped for the boat discussion at home. I’m 63 skiing double boots and pop up no problem . You’re not anywhere near old enough to have issues getting up due to age or form. Hope you get a new boat out of this. If you start to look at boats there are PLENTY of great older boats that are way better than what you’re using today that are very inexpensive. Look at 91-94 MC 190’s , SN 196’s , and many more. You’ll be set for life unless you decide you’re going to compete at a world class level

[BraceMaker]

@MDB1056 this is exactly why anyone who has a deep water boat start issue the number one thing I say is to go get some good skiing lessons. These are people who own boats who obviously have the slalom bug - these are simply people who should want to go out and buy DD ski boats.

 

But the best way to get hooked is to go take ski lessons, if you go buy a DD boat and you get it home and then all of a sudden its not better, or the boat rides too rough for the lake. Well you just lost a skier.

[MDB1056]

@BraceMaker - that’s why I said try it first. Easier and cheaper to just find a ski buddy with a DD . Never seen a lake without x% DD boats . That’s easy to do on home lake.

[OldboyII]

@NorCalRec this week I bought new shorts and immediately started to fail half of starts. Could not figure out what is going on...

As a last resort I changed shorts and all went OK - 100%

That strange - shorts are really soft and frankly say before I was a bit sceptical that shorts may influence that much... yes it can. That particular shorts have a tight lace around waist and probably because of this detail shorts act like parachute.

[Jmoski]

If you have always started with both feet in, making some adjustments to that start might be the simplest solution. Try sucking your rear foot under your butt just as the boat goes, flex your core muscles and just hold it. This helps keep the ski at a 30 degree angle so your not fighting the boat.

[Martin1980]

@NorCalRec get yourself a HO Omni and you will get right up with its wider tail. The Omni is a very capable ski in the course that turns like a regular ski even with the wider tail due to the clean edge technology.

[ScottScott]

I forgot my bathing suit about a week ago when going skiing.....wore my cargo shorts. Missed 2 start ups and was sore for a couple days. Amazing how much more work those shorts were to get up with.

[B_S]

Besides more power, your vest may be an issue. If you have a non USCG approved vest, get one (approved). Sitting higher in the water helps much more than many folks realize.