Replace Regionals With State Championships?

[JeffSurdej]

@Jody_Seal since when have I not listened to our members, common man. I don't have time to be on BOS, I'm hear to listen and make the sport better. And name one change that's been made in AWSA (not IWWF) to cater to the elite in the last 5 years? Cause I can give you a dozen that have been catered to the non-elite.

 

Anyways....I would be all for a test run of stuff if it makes sense and the majority of the members agrees. But everything you said above can already be done, obviously states can be whenever you want, they don't have to be the week before Regionals and they can be after Nationals so no one is stopping this from happening. And Regionals can be 6 weeks before Nationals already so no one is stopping the West or South from spreading out the championships series, so if you want to test, go test it. We have given each region that flexibility. And if the West wants to have 2 Regionals, draw it up, propose it, and I can not see why the board would not allow it.

 

For us in the midwest we don't have the flexibility to spread it out as we only have a 6 week season total. All in all I agree spreading it out would be nice, but I've yet to hear a solid laid out plan that works. BTW next years nationals is August 8-14, perfect time for some regions to not move their regionals up a week and give skiers a few weeks in between, its not 6 weeks but it helps? Once again, no rule change needed, regions have that flexibility now.

 

When we send out this years rules survey I'll add some questions centered around nationals dates and skipping regionals or replacing regionals with states etc? , we did this in 2016 but time for an update on how members feel.

[MISkier]

@JeffSurdej , I can name one change made for the elite in the last 5 years.

 

In 2017, the Zero Based Scoring was added to the rule book for all tournament classes and included speed selection exceeding max speeds for the skier's age division. After an outcry that was likely initiated by predominantly elite skiers, the rule was changed to only allow the overspeed portion at class C tournaments (no Regionals or Nationals).

 

There's one.

[JackQ]

I was one of those opposed and still do as a 6 buoy handicap for a speed change is not appropriate nor supported by data. For a vast number of skier, they do not gain 6 buoys by reducing speed, therefore unfairly handicapping those who do not slow down.

[JeffSurdej]

@MISkier true but ZBS in general was a non-elite change in my mind.

[MISkier]

@JeffSurdej, agreed. The option to shorten and get credit at a speed less than max has likely been a significant benefit for skiers of all abilities. Elite skiers would not need that.

[klindy]

@MISkier I'm not following your logic. Whether it started from an outcry initiated by elite skiers or not, they are not in place to use the rule change yet it's been used (successfully) by many of the "non-elite" skiers. In fact, the rule ZBS scoring has allowed for more flexibility at all classes to allow skiers to determine what's best for them. It may not be perfect but I don't follow how that was a rule change that catered to the elite and somehow ignored or hurt the rest of the skiers.

[disland]

hey Jody take it easy on Jeff, he has a lot of cats to herd

[MISkier]

@klindy, it was the modification of the ZBS rule to eliminate overspeed at Regionals and Nationals that was to the benefit of the elite. The remaining portion of the rule (shortening at less than max for credit) was certainly to benefit the non-elite.

 

The rule was partially rescinded at their request. That is the change that was specifically for them. It was originally written and approved in one form and altered later. The remaining portion is not in question as to whom it benefits. It is obviously for non-elite skiers. The removal of the other portion of the rule was the change I was mentioning.

[BlueSki]

@JeffSurdej, please consider adding smaller geographic regions to this year’s survey. I think the smaller regions, as MISkier proposed, helps to alleviate the burden of multiple trips requiring flights or multi-day drives that Horton brought up. Clearly, multi-lake sites are limited and smaller regions bring about other consequences.

[Not_The_Pug]

@klindy I was just stating that it was already tried to break up a region (as many posts have suggested) and it didn't pass as a lot of the long time skiers wanted that tournament to see friends from other part of the west.

[ALPJr]

At the risk of going off topic... I think ZBS is great, thought it was created for skiers like me, ~60 yrs old and trying to have fun, turning some buoys while preserving my body, and going to a tourney or three every year. Trust me I ain’t setting records, climbing up the ranking list, or winning any championships.

[Jody_Seal]

Jeff is good a herding cat's. Part of the job description..

 

But! None the less these requests, issues(perceived or not by management) keep coming up? . Absolutely no want by management to work at considering a trial change. We see changes in programs or policy that is beneficial to membership growth or sustainability of membership being discontinued.

What happened to the team competition at nationals? Wait! I know Florida wins every year! Hmm! I think that program was

derived by managment. Maybe College nationals should be canceled because ULM wins most every year..

Why not have a trial set events where there are multiple national qualifiers or state tournaments or what ever try two nationals. Slalom only nationals, I wonder how many slalom skiers that would otherwise not attend under current policy decide to attend? I'd wager that a 600 entry slalom event could be had with a championship round.

An overall nationals on labor day weekend?

Thats just not possible!

 

A great waterski entrepreneur once told me the problem with this sport is it won't go out of its way to re invent or re package its self. It continues to do the same thing over and over like a white wash!

[MISkier]

At the proposed "Slalom Only" Nationals, would you have multiple rounds of skiing with two round elimination and head-to-head for the top 6 in each division? I wonder if you would beat that 600 entries just by adding another round.

[Broussard]

@Jody_Seal The team event took a hiatus this year due to the situation with COVID and many unsure about attendance, not "because Florida wins every year."

 

Be honest, anyone with half a brain cell could have guessed that would be the result before the program was ever implemented.