Connection and Swing

[Deep11]

Too early for this thread to fade away........

 

@adamcaldwell wrote something that seemed to slip by unnoticed and may need a little more discussion :

 

“Even had guys this past weekend saying to me they like how I ski open to the boat and with level shoulders and counter rotating into the turn. It was beyond frustrating to hear that as that is NOT what is going on. My objectives and goals are nearly the polar opposite of that.”

 

Whilst there is a lot in this sentence, I’m focusing on the level shoulders. I’ve heard many coaches saying we should be aiming for “level shoulders”. Its also been discussed a few times in BOS as a goal.

I’ve been suspicious that it’s one of the slaloming myths? ( like trying to be “wide and early”).

Interesting to hear that Adam does not have this in his objectives. I’ve always thought that the “connection” trumps level shoulders and that they aren’t necessarily the same thing. You certainly don’t want the “away” shoulder pulled in towards the wake, and with the right connection and release it won’t be.

Having the “away” shoulder rising “up” though as the centrifugal force causes you to lean over actually seems preferable and far less effort than trying to force a “reverse C” type situation - which just results in more of your mass further out the course.

Reverse C and level shoulders looks cooler though which is a problem :(

 

Obviously a whole lot more to this and I’m interested to hear views......

 

 

 

[GaryWilkinson]

In my experience with a few coaches this past year, (Rini, Cole, Patrice at Swiss and Tgas) all we’re consistently promoting “hiding the shoulder” at peak resistance and wale crossing.

 

This aspect helped me achieve better, earlier wake crossings and a somewhat more even pull. It also sets up better (for me at least) before the ball to keep my hips, shoulders and ski more outbound.

 

Now I gotta figure out how to incorporate what this thread is promoting, ski pointed more towards the next ball while keeping upper body outbound.

[skispray]

@AdamCord and @adamhcaldwell I personally found it incredibly clarifying when you explained that when you said you were trying to ‘stand up’ through the wake what you meant was you were trying to stand up straight relative to the ski, i.e. thinking of the ski as the ‘ground’ in this reference, so that when you stand up your body is elongated at an angle still leaned away from the boat. When you said this before without the additional clarification I, and I think others, took it to me that you were standing up straight relative to the water, i.e. bringing your shoulders out of the pull and literally standing up straight.

[Adam Caldwell]

@GaryWilkinson - Upper body pointed outbound is also a massive misunderstanding and NOT what we are necessarily trying to convey. Nor is 'hiding' the shoulder at peak resistance. I want to be really careful not to mix those concepts into this conversation.

 

@Deep11 - Yes your right. There is a lot of 'cool' looking stuff that you can get away with within a certain line length or persons skill set/strength. But often a lot of these concepts fall apart and work against the kinematic system as the rope gets shorter.

 

I am still learning things about this sport every day. When I started to shorten the rope to 43 last spring, I was quickly 'educated' on a few things. What got me through 39 and 41 was 'good' enough. But 43 quickly taught me where my shortfalls were. The first couple attempts I was folded in half going through the gate, nearly getting ripped OTF as if I was crossing the wake for the first time ever at 15off. That experience will open your eyes. Being stronger, more aggressive, or powerful did nothing to make 43 off easier. It took a deeper understanding to break through that barrier.

 

The focus needs to shift away from the singular "move" or "technique". We need the big picture objectives that helps the system as a whole function together more effectively. Understanding your roll within a kinematic system is what will help break you through to the next level.

 

 

[GaryWilkinson]

@adamhcaldwell now I’m confused sorry.

 

I get the “stand up” concept in that it’s for me, “stand up from the ski not the water” and how this movement brings the chest and hips up and forward.

 

I get the upper body engaged after midline.

 

Just need you to give us a paragraph on shoulders, level not level, facing the boat, outbound, under load and in the glide before the ball.

 

Because I keep these as good reminders,...

 

[Adam Caldwell]

Teaching GUT philosophy = 1hr conversation.

 

Reworking old beliefs built on flawed fundamentals = 16hr conversation.

[Wish]

@GaryWilkinson what are those pictures reminding of?

[Adam Caldwell]

@GaryWilkinson - without going into detail of what I might like to see different in those pictures you posted, perhaps just comparing to this would be good.

 

[ktm300]

@adamhcaldwell Live webcast...speak once reach millions...well, hundreds...

[BlueSki]

@ktm300, water skiing’s first pay per view?

[Adam Caldwell]

@ktm300 - its definitely on the table.

[GaryWilkinson]

@Wish The photo of Paige is a great reminder of

-hide the shoulder (gets my hips more outbound before first wake)

-hips up in a more standing up (relative to the ski) position.

 

@adamhcaldwell I’ve read GUT 10x at least. Has helped a tremendous amount especially for the gate.

But pardon me for being hooked on upper body positioning.

In lieu of a paragraph, I’ll go for the pictures you posted.

 

After all, it’s worth a thousand words.

 

 

[jercrane]

I was down at Jodi's last weekend and tried thinking about some of this. Specifically focusing on staying in the lean but releasing the ski to point down the lake after the second wake. It was pretty amazing actually. Only did 3 sets so I didn't get a chance to polish it or come close to locking it in. I had two or three 28off passes where I did manage to nail it for the whole pass and oh my god did it make the whole pass feel easier. It felt like my normal 22off. It was the first time I ever felt like "yeah maybe I could bet into some 32s".

 

Of course now I won't be on the water again until April. :(

 

 

[Adam Caldwell]

@GaryWilkinson

 

Dont get hung on "upper body positioning". Instead, focus on whole body positioning.

 

My philosophy is that I want my entire body to be as rigid as it can be axially moving through the back of the boat, such that if the boat is torquing my upper body "open" as I travel through the back of the boat and off the second wake, I want that torsional input to be also torquing the ski in the same direction - which we would describe as YAW rotation. (This can be seen in the gate video Cord posted earlier in this thread.)

 

One hard and undeniable rule in this sports: the turn (direction change) starts at CL. If your upper body is torqued open by the boat (which it will be), but your lower body and ski keep pointing to the shoreline, then you have NOT successfully started the turn on time. Instead, you have just started to 'disconnect' from the swing. This means you swing slower up on the boat, be later and likely narrower to the ball, and likely ski into a slack line at the finish of the turn.

 

For this to all work properly however there is a conversation about COM elevation (height above the water) that plays into this formula and ones ability to undergo a direction change without getting crushed by the opposing forces of line tension and hydraulic pressure from the ski. Let me try to paint a picture...

 

A low COM( and or low handle connection point) will not allow the ski to relieve edge pressure early enough (at CL), and thus leads to excessive compression in the body due to massive opposing forces. The compression is seen when the knees excessively rise to the chest (or butt falls onto the tail) as a means to get onto the turning edge.

 

Conversely, a more elevated COM and connection point through CL (elevated further above the water) will allow the ski to un-weight much earlier. This does a lot a great things for us. Less load on the ski, body, arms, rope, faster edge change, faster swing, less drag..etc. The biggest benefit being that less ski pressure essentially means the ski will be able to initiate the YAW rotation and move into the turn much easier - far less effort on the skiers behalf. This allows for the COM to effectively change direction at CL and move into a better trajectory into apex without premature separation from the swing or disruption to the timing of the system as a whole.

 

If its hard to visualize how the elevation of the COM (and/or handle connection) are directly related to pressure on the ski (aka "compression"), just imagine the extremes.

 

First, if you could somehow manage get your hips 4feet above the water (which is impossible), the ski would effectively no longer be in the water, thus - no pressure and no resistance to rotation - so your ski would rotate with your upper body as its pulled around the corner crossing CL and beyond. Swing speed would stay high, so you would end up wide and early into the turn.

 

Conversely if your COM was only 1 foot off the water, your only way to 'unweight' the ski would be to suck the knees up rapidly after CL. While this does facilitate a method to "unweight" the ski, it does not necessarily cause the ski to change direction and move into the turn. The end result is early separation and termination of the swing energy as your COM and ski are on a path that is significantly different then where the handle must go.

 

Certainty there are some skiers have figured out a way to make a compressed style work. However most had very short careers. Then there are the other guys who crush 39& 41off for decades, and even into their 50s.

 

[ktm300]

@adamhcaldwell Post the link and I'll sign up immediately. Happy to pay for good information.

 

Speaking for myself only, I don't dig some of the snark that comes into technique discussions and I really appreciate the fact that you and Cord are patient and respectful in describing your ideas. I have read every word ever posted on the internet by every top level skier or coach for the past 20 yrs. I could make a list as long as your leg. I have had coaching from some really great and well known coaches. Spent lots of $$. For me, this leads to perpetual confusion. These various well meaning and successful people are NOT saying the same thing in a different way. There are fundamental differences of approach.

 

One small representative example: Coach 1: Be moving slightly faster than the boat at turn in; hide from the speed control; turn from wide. Coach 2: Allow the boat to move ahead before moving in (slower than the boat); don't turn but lead with your body and let the ski catch up and find its own angle. One handed gate; two handed gate blah, blah ...

 

Skier came up to my daughter at a tournament and complimented her on her great knee bend. No shit. At the time he was the #1 ranked Mens 3 skier. He skied with lots of knee bend. Try squaring that with those advocating riding around with your back leg straight. We're not confused because we're stupid. We're confused because everybody tells us stuff that does not square.

 

By my interpretation of the comments by some posters, there are skiers that run 39, mid 41 that are doing it "wrong". Yeah...

 

The holy grail would be to have a round table discussion with top coaches and skiers. Given the disparate advice I have been given, it occurs to me that these folks must never talk to one another.

 

Hence the 16 hours to explain away old information and only 1 hour to explain the new. It takes 16 hours cause many of us erroneously thought that by listening to every "authority" that spoke about proper technique and theory that we could really figure this stuff out.

 

The Adams are really good teachers and I hope they keep on sharing what they have learned.

[ktm300]

While typing my post above, @adamhcaldwell was posting his most excellent post about the reasons why straighter legs work better than bent. No snark; just legitimate, fact based explanation. More please...

[Dano]

I’ve been trying to ski “taller” and more connected my last several sets. I think it was twhisper In another thread who made a comment about pushing into the first wake. This seemed to make the transition happen more easily as the ski kinda shoots forward and out in front off the second wake. Noticed it also makes the ski release pointing more in a down course direction which fits with the ideas here. Managing load to be able to hold your position/lean into and through the wakes was also something that I had to adjust for myself. I had a tendency to take way too much and get pulled forward at CL.

[Skierx]

We seem to be making this pretty complicated. It reminds me of the Motorsport racing days when you walk through the pit area and ask someone about advice. And then you walk next door and get different advice. And by the time you get back to your pits you're very confused. How many times have we showed up at the course when someone says, so what are you working on today? Oh I'm working on counter rotation or I'm working on hips to the handle. Are all the different particular things that are said. And how many things can you think of actually while you're out there in the course? Not very many. That's when it becomes complicated. But it doesn't have to be if we're thinking about connection and swing. How do we connect?Best way I found to connect is to have my shoulders as far away from my ski as possible as I exit the turn when done correctly it puts you in a strong pulling position with the handle close to the hip as a byproduct of standing up tall exiting the buoy. If I don't stand up tall at that point I exit separated from the handle and never can make it back. How can I generate swing? As I'm tall exiting the buoy in a very strong pulling position by the time I get to centerline I had better be thinking about yawing the ski already because of centrifugal force if I wait until the second wake that may be too late and therefore I will still be on The cutting edge getting separated from the handle and slowing the swing speed down. So by yawing the ski at CL & pushing the ski out in front of me I'm able to carry all that speed that was generated by standing tall very far up on the boat and now I only have to turn a little bit to finish rather than trying to turn back 180° in the other direction. So what I'm trying to say is that all the particular body positions that are talked about so much by so many skiers or coaches happens naturally without having to think about them if I just work on connection and swing in this way.

[Adam Caldwell]

@ktm300 - thanks for the kind words.

 

@skierrx - Your right, once you 'see it', it is simple. But like @ktm300 stated, its hard to know "who" and what to listen to.

[Deanoski]

@adamhcaldwell that pic of Andy has helped me more than any coach over the years

 

Thank you posting that pic!!

 

[Skierx]

@adamhcaldwell fair enough I agree who and what to listen to. I can start by recognizing who and what I have listened to for all of these years has produced limited results. That may give the freedom to look at a different approach such as what you and cord are teaching. Yes it's radically different. So is the ski you guys build it looks like nothing else out there. The fin looks like nothing else out there. And the philosophy sounds like nothing else out there. But the more my head gets wrapped around it the less I have to think about well I'm on the course. The results are you end up with good body position doing all the right movements at the right time because you have time. I like the one you mentioned previously about someone noticing how well you were counter rotated and that was the furthest thing from your mind. I recently have heard the same types of thingsand it's not something I was trying to do it was simply a happening. Still haven't had the opportunity to be coached by yourself or @AdamCord yet , but it is clear to everyone that has seen me ski lately that looks like a different skier back there. So I guess I'm being coached from afar through articles and posts an emails from you Adams. Thanks for transforming my skiing this far. Nothing else has worked like this.

[Adam Caldwell]

Wanted to highlight "un-level" shoulders from a different perspective during the offside pull. Its easy to see someone in a heel-side pull and suggest they are "open" to the boat. The offside pull tells a different story.

 

Note: I have no idea what Mapple or Nate were 'trying to execute', I've never really skied or talked to them about it. My point is simply to not put a lot of stock in the 'level shoulders' concept when you hear people throwing it around.

 

 

Mapple

 

Smith

 

 

 

 

Just for giggles, here is Mapples and Nates heelside at the gate shot where they have complete control of what is going on....

 

 

 

The name of the game in this sports is leverage. Not necessarily leverage against the pull from the boat, but more importantly leverage over the skis edge and the hydraulic forces acting underneath you.

 

These two forces are trying to crush your body behind the boat. IE 1: pull from the rope, 2: hydraulic pressure & drag on the ski. Pulling harder against the tow line doesn't solve a lot of issues, and often just leads to more issues.

 

Placing more focus and effort on how we stand on the ski to manage and control our leverage over the ski is what is of utmost importance. It is what will allow us to create the right conditions and scenario for creating energy in the downswing that can be transitioned into the swing after CL.

[bsmith]

@adamhcaldwell I have always wondered how important level shoulders are when you can see so many examples of great skiers without level shoulders. And the same goes for being open to the boat. All skiers can be relatively open to the boat in the onside cut, but can never be very open during their off side cut. The instruction to ski open to the boat with level shoulders has become a platitude that isn't really what is happening upon close inspection of the very best skiers.

 

Maybe it is fair to say that the best are skiing relatively more open to the boat and with shoulders more near level than lesser skiers, but I think that is as far as you can take it.

 

What I am taking from your advice is that we need to seek the best leverage position possible when under load and that means that the skier needs to be as upright, linear, and as perpendicular to the ski as possible so that all the forces against the skier can be translated as efficiently as possible into movement in the right direction.

[So_I_Ski]

@adamhcaldwell the ability of top skiers to achieve this position exiting the wakes is something that I identified as that "key" to short line skiing a couple of years ago but I never understood "how" to make it happen until now. Or rather I now understand how I have been unable to do it or to feel it because I have been both late with my edge change and focused on keeping my ski pointed at the shore particularly when I course ski. So thank you very much for shedding so much light on this crucial component. Now I really can't wait to get back on the water which won't happen until April.

 

Having said that there is one thing you are espousing that I would question or ask for clarification. The idea that by keeping your entire body as rigid and as tall as possible when crossing CL makes it easier to unweight and that there is "less" load on the ski, body, arms etc. seems upside down to me. In that position I would think that all of the load would be transferred directly from your shoulders straight to the ski with tremendous strain on the lower back as you struggle not to buckle at the waist from the forces. As for moving the ski from one side to the other, it follows that this can only be achieved by moving the entire body from one side to the other so I really don't understand how you can even get into that position where you can maintain the lean away with your upper body with this approach. Puzzled??

 

Conversely, skiers who use their legs effectively as shock absorbers by bending at the knees are easily able to release all of the pressure on the ski to edge change simply by letting their knees come up as they cross thru the wakes. And they only have to move their lower body to do so which enhances their ability to maintain their lean away with their upper body. In all three of the pics submitted by Horton on the first page the skiers are doing exactly that. This point was also illustrated very well in Suyderhoud's old West Coast video.

 

And as for top skiers, I would submit that virtually all of them have at least some knee bend and many like Terry and Freddie as well as Asher have lots of knee action as they edge change.

[Adam Caldwell]

@So_I_Ski - great questions.

 

There is more discussion to be had on this obviously. But, really quickly, re-read what I wrote about the actual elevation of your center of mass. There is a point where we need to start coming out of that lean into the first wake such that we can 'help' the ski unweight. COM elevation is a function of that dynamic. This unweighting allows for 1. redirection of the ski, 2. a change in trajectory for COM, and 3. unweighting of the ski. All things that aim to remove almost all pressure and drag on the ski very early after CL leaving you with only the centripetal force to deal with during the swing up to apex.

 

If I were to try to stay in a 45 deg lean angle away from the boat after CL I will certainly experience MASSIVE loads and compression. However, if I can start to elevate and get COM higher above the water before crossing CL, then I am reducing the pressure on the ski, and at the same time helping the ski to be able to come out of angle faster - and help my COM change course into a new trajectory into the upswing on the handle path. You must remember though, that non of this can happen effectively if the timing and energy generation into the first wake is sub-par.

 

Worth noting...at super short line lengths, you will ALWAYS see "compression" after center line. If the ski advances in front, your ankles and knees are forced to bend- its a geometry issue. However, I would highly advise against trying to be mimicking that kind of knee bend. Go watch skiers like Chris Parish or Drew Ross from the boat and I promise you that youll go home and gain 6buoys after realizing that bending your knees and ankles may not be all its cracked up to be.

 

I go back now and watch videos of 39s and 41s I have run. Though it may not look like it, I can promise you that I am putting massive effort into not being compressed through the middle and continuing to stand as tall as possible through the second white water. But in the video you dont see that. You see knee bend.

 

Again, be careful mimicking what you 'see' when you watch a pro-level skier attempting to run passes at their physical limits.

 

@9400 Has been putting a lot of focus into these concepts lately at 22 - 32off. He can tell you first hand how much less strain and load there is on the body.

 

[So_I_Ski]

@adamhcaldwell, two things come to mind. First, as an extreme short line skier you note that you will always see compression, however there is little to no wake from 32 to 41. I think you may have forgotten that there is "ALWAYS" a noticeable wake to contend with at lengths between 15 and 28 off depending on the boat manufacturer. When a skier hits that bump something has to give. If they maintain a ramrod straight posture, one of two things will surely happen. They will either buckle at the waist or they will become airborne.

 

On the other hand by simply relaxing their knees and ankles to absorb the wakes they will pass thru smoothly while completing the edge change seamlessly. Personally, I suffered from both the buckling and the launching at 22 and 28 in the course for years but when free skiing at 32 or 35 everything was great. Not until I incorporated some knee bend did I begin to smooth out my wake crossings.

 

The second thing that comes to mind is your comment that I "don't see" your massive effort not to compress but to stand as tall as possible. And that instead I "see" knee bend. Or that I shouldn't mimick what I "see". In my experience, I have heard many many people including myself describe what they thought they were doing on the water which is severely at odds with what is actually taking place. For 4 years a large group of us were going on a ski trip annually to a lake that we rented for 3 days where we shot copious amounts of video. To a man, every person was always shocked at the contradictions between what they thought they were doing and what was actually happening on the water. Pictures and videos do not lie and they almost always support what I have seen with my eyes. So when anyone suggests that what I am seeing is not what is occurring I get extremely skeptical.

 

Thanks again though for the enlightening and crucial commentary on achieving that connection and swing which I really look forward to tacking in the spring. As for the best method to edge change, I would love to hear from someone like Terry Winter, who in my mind is the smoothest skier on the water and whose edge changes are like butter. I have also had the privilege of watching him from the boat.

[Adam Caldwell]

@So_I_ski

 

If you had a 500lb stone that was tied to a handle and asked you to swing it from side to side over and over. Do that for as long as you can. (Think shoulders are the pivot point and the stone is the mass of the pendulum), - how would you want to be standing;

 

1. Knees and ankles bent, hips back, chest forward with hands away from the body

OR

2. Completely stacked like your at the top of the pull from a deadlift completely erect.

 

This scenario isn't all that different from whats going on as we move in and out of center-line.

Accepting scenario #1 as what to strive for clearly will put MORE strain on your low back.

Striving for scenario #2 will put your body in the strongest bio-mechnical position possible to handle the forces involved.

 

Heres a shot of Mapple, vs Cox. Its no surprise to me that Mapple was still running 41 into his 50s and Cox is not. (No disrespect toward Wade!!)

 

Good technique should not mean your body has to suffer just to be on the water.

 

Pushing with your legs after the load is on the body and your but is already in the back seat just puts massive strain on the back. The focus needs to be on getting the body postion stacked first (standing as tall as possible), such that you don't have to push at all, and you just let the boat pull you through CL.

 

 

[RazorRoss3]

So, one of the few things I've learned in this sport, is that if I make a mistake at the turn, I made a mistake in the pull. Can't set up a good turn if the pull was shit.

 

With that, what should we be thinking about from width to CL that will help us to successfully implement what you are talking about from CL out to width?

[Adam Caldwell]

@RazorRoss3 - Great question. Just one thing.....STAND UP! Note; Stand up relative to the top surface of a banked ski.

 

Move the shoulders as far away from the top of the ski as possible. This requires effort from both the front and back legs.

 

The focus should not be on 'hips up'. "Hips up" (a position we observe) is a by product of standing up. Standing up means the shoulders as far away from the top of the ski as possible. This creates the 'space' for your hips to move forward and up into - in exactly the same manner it does when standing out of a chair.

[B_S]

Just sing the sage words of the immortal Duke Ellington in your head on pull out: It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing. Simple as that!

[Adam Caldwell]

Here is a great video to highlight some of these dynamics from a pro skier who is NOT skiing

at 39 and 41 off.

 

Nate Smith at 15off. Leaves the water at CL, and uses/allows the pull from the boat to axially rotate (aka change direction or YAW) his upper body, lower body AND ski - all at the same time.

 

 

After going airborn he is landing on a ski that has already effectively turned.

 

@So_I_Ski - take a look here... While Nate is in the air there is NO additional load or drag from the ski and very little pressure on the body. Nates just riding the swing outbound as he was able to allow his COM to change direction with the handle at CL.

 

Its probably the easiest to see and most exaggerated from buoys 4 to 5.

[bsmith]

@adamhcaldwell I am getting from all this that we as skiers should not be concerned with exactly how open we are to the boat or how perfectly we can get our shoulders level, but rather how strong of a position we can get into such that we can accept direct compression forces with a slight knee bend while also staying torsionally rigid as well. I have never thought about being so stiff while skiing, but I guess while in the most intense load sections of a ski run that is the best way to resist loads and not get shifted into a weak position.

 

Concerning trying to maintain a near level head position at all times, I am assuming that for better balance and vision that you are for that standard principle.

[Stefan]

A picture better than 1000 words to show path after CL?

[Adam Caldwell]

@bsmith

 

I don’t think I’ve ever said anything about a level head being a good thing.

 

Not something I preach or talk about. I personally don’t worry about it. My opinion is that it’s an “observed” element to someone’s skiing who is very tall and swinging wide on the ski. It isn’t necessarily something to directly strive for.

 

I’m putting my head wherever it needs to be to be in alignment with the rest of my body and such that I can see where I’m going.

 

 

[bsmith]

@adamhcaldwell As a new course skier I read every post on BOS about technique and right up there with stay open to the boat and keep shoulders level and is the commandment to keep your head and eyes level at all times. This thread https://www.ballofspray.com/forum#/discussion/comment/113807 by @Bruce_Butterfield is a prime example of what I am talking about.

 

Skiers lean at extreme angles in all directions so keeping a perfectly level head at all times is not really possible. But it does make some intuitive sense to me that your head should not just stay perpendicular to your shoulders at all times and that there would be some advantage to seeing things level as much as possible. Meaning that as much as possible one should try to keep their head up and level.

 

From what you describe above, it sounds like you are just letting your head stay in balance with your overall body position and that means it tilts where it feels natural and strong and keeping it as level as possible is not a specific goal. That also makes sense to me because you don't have to worry about head position as a critical aspect of your skiing.

[So_I_Ski]

@adamhcaldwell, based on the two pics that you posted of Andy and Wade, perhaps I misunderstood what you were espousing which I thought was ramrod straight legs and not primarily a straighter torso.

[JAS]

It seems what we are talking about is: ENERGY from a boat

-transferring force through rope/skier

-to ski that creates hydrodynamic forces

-that propels a skier through a specific path.

For high level performance each must be optimized.

I think the Adams and GUT do a terrific job of discussing the physical elements of efficient skiing ( rope connection, COM, arm/body rigidity, ski interface) They also explain well the concept of ideal timing and ski path. It all makes sense.

In hind sight I’m rethinking coaching tips I have received in the past and what the instructor was really trying to help me with.

For me 4-5 long months standing tall in front of a mirror and pretending to ski a path like a tether ball. Thank again @adamhcaldwell , @AdamCord

[Mateo_Vargas]

I did some swinging the other night, felt great. My quads were sore the next day which hasn't happened in a while so must have been doing it right.

[GaryWilkinson]

@adamhcaldwell your engineering and technical background have been a real pleasure in here and especially in this thread. I coach a lot of Slalomers in my area and have been an advocate of developing early speed and trajectory in the course as a key to short(er) line slalom. As Andy said to many of us many years ago, you want to be in the best position early and wide as this is where the boat is at its weakest in relation to the skiers swing.

 

Some absolute pearls have come out of this thread, but I think the most important for me was your additional words explaining “standing up” : “ This creates the 'space' for your hips to move forward and up into - in exactly the same manner it does when standing out of a chair.”

 

What I get from that is that a mechanically aligned body is much better at taking advantage of the upcoming “swing energy” or centripetal force than a bent one.

 

And that all work after the centre line is focused on maintaining that energy (speed) in order to get higher on the boat and earlier in turn initiation.

 

I do have one question, is raising the COM as easy as reducing the lean and therefore pressure on the ski and pull on the handle?

 

Thanks for your detailed and time consuming input. It is very much appreciated.

Now I’m going back to reading this whole thread again! ?

 

[AdamCord]

@GaryWilkinson to your question:

 

"is raising the COM as easy as reducing the lean and therefore pressure on the ski and pull on the handle?"

 

Yes raising your COM is as easy as "standing up" out of the lean, and this will reduce pressure on the ski, but when done right you will still have a lot of load in the rope. Your goal with the pull is to get yourself into a strong leveraged position to generate swing speed into the wakes. If you've done that well you can start to stand up out of the lean but against the line and ride the swing around the pylon.

 

When (how early/late) you are able to do that is almost entirely dependent on how much speed you generated from the turn to the first whitewash. This is something you can test pretty easily free skiing by playing with more and less aggressive pulls and see when you are able to get the ski off edge. When you have less speed you are forced to stay on a cutting edge longer, and you will be forced into a situation where you are skiing away from the handle path off the 2nd wake, causing separation. The faster you are into center the earlier you can stand up, get your ski out of angle, and just ride the swing to the buoy line.

[GaryWilkinson]

@adamhcaldwell

 

Beautiful! Got it.

Can’t wait for next season.

 

Thanks so much for your clarification and advice.

[chris55]

I have been reading this thread 3 times at least and I do understand that the most efficient way is to get as fast and early as possible to the CL and therfore ....cruise to the next buoy ( my dream... ) and get set up for the turn and "burn".....and swing again.

I am a 32-34 mph at 15off skier and (pb is 2 at 34/15off and practice I do run sometime 34) but I have trouble to find the way to accelerate properly right after I finished my turn. When free skiing I can hear and feel the wind on my ears but when slaloming.....I have the impression that I wish I can accelerate but I am not sure it happens.....

How should I feel the pressure ? On my front foot and ski on edge ?

When I watch Nate's video.....not fair how easy he is accelerating....tips would be welcome.

I try to connect the best as I can with the handle to my hips after finishing the turn....but I don't feel the acceleration......:(

[chris55]

And an enourmous thank you to @AdamCord and @adamhcaldwell for your GUT and all the sharing.....pricless for beginner like me :)

[Skierx]

@chris55 I would recommend you review the GUT gate very closely. Notice when the load comes on strong is not until your already at the beginning of the whitewash. And by the end of the white wash the ski is transitioning between skier and boat and starting to go flat on its way to the turning edge. Exiting a turn is not that different. No need to be in a hurry to get hooked up to the handle. But let the ski continue to come around and get hooked back up to the handle. This would be a good time to stand up tall and make sure you're not squatting. By the time you're hooked up to the handle you should be almost at the whitewash. So the cutting edge pull is not for very long as you can see by reviewing any top-level skier video. Also it was mentioned earlier in this thread to review Chris Parrish. If you review the slo-mo video of him on the AM ski notice by the second wake he never lets the handle get away from him, he actually pulled the handle up close to his body and remains on the handle all the way out until he reaches. At the top of the thread @AdamCord video you can see all the proper technique supplied in the same way notice how early cord is able to take the ski out of angle and start the swing process.

[HSL]

Check out the first 20 seconds of this vivid slow motion video of Caldwell, at short line, coming towards the camera through center; initiating the transition; yawing the ski tip up course towards the buoy; upwsing; and, reach before turn.

 

The one thing that stands out to me is how his upper and lower body stay on axis with the ski throughout. This is similar to a snippet that Cord posted early in this thread -- but better quality video here - also courtesy of Cord, I think. Good stuff and worth reviewing.

Link below.

https//vimeo.com/232425533

[Adam Caldwell]

@ HSL the “move” or what you might call a prerequisite for the dynamic you are describing to take place is that the vertical elevation of the shoulders/COM is increasing through CL.

 

If elevation of the handle and the body doesn’t happen, the ski is not able to unweight, and the Simultaneous swIng&rotation will NOT happen.

[Adam Caldwell]

Here’s another one that may be of interest.

 

[coach3]

looks kind of like Jeff Rogers

[HSL]

@adamchaldwell Thanks, for the add'l video and for highlighting (again) the importance of elevating handle and COM through CL to unweight the ski when making "the move" resulting in ideal up-swing (not out-swing) and yaw rotation towards the buoy. The video shows this well. Very helpful. The light bulb went off and the bells rang when I saw these slow mo videos and your reminder above. That did it for me.

 

I know you and Cord have already addressed this earlier in the thread, but If you two have any additional thoughts on what specific actions you focus on to make this happen consistently -- every ball -- every pass -- let us know.

[Adam Caldwell]

@HSL - master the timing with the boat prior to the course is probably the #1 most important element to this.

 

As far as mechanics go....

Get the handle in and anchored to the body immediately out of turn finish.

Look to get the shoulders as far away from the ski as possible with a full body extension as load comes on in the pull.

Avoid an excessive lean that you cant come up out of fast enough through CL. Continue to extend through the 'elevation' phase to avoid compression in the lower body.

Don't let the handle move away from your core in the swing. Keep elbows back on your rib cage and keep tension in arms until its time to feed the handle out.

Make big spray.

 

7:30 in the previous video is a fresh set, starting at 32, followed by 35 and 38. Its kind of far away, but shows these general elements very well.