For those working perfecting stack position

[jercrane]

@Horton what are "the right words"?

I've spent the better part of this season trying to bring my hips up and its not working. I keep thinking the hips are a symptom not a root cause but I'm struggling to get to the root cause. I'm also a terrible backfooter but that also feels like a symptom and response to some other bad thing I am doing.

 

"Get forward"

"hips up"

"stacked"

 

All these things sound easy enough but when I attempt to execute what I think it means in general very bad things happen.

 

"Get forward" ... I end up breaking at the waist or going OTF

"hips up" ... I end up on my tail and get dragged down course

"stacked" ... also puts me on the back foot

 

I seem to have far less of an issue with my offside with these things oddly enough.

 

[Horton]

@jercrane My thinking is that where your hips are is purely dependent on the bend of your legs. If there is equal weight on both feet and equal bend (or lack of ) w/ both legs your hips will be dead center.

 

The old school coaching "Get your hips up" is not helpful if your back leg is collapsed. Same goes for "Shoulders back".

 

In short I 100% agree that hips back is the symptom and not the cause.

 

It does not work for everyone but I constantly coach "Just Stand Up" or "Be taller on the ski".

[ToddL]

I like all of the instructions which encourage a taller stance. They seem to help the majority of skiers improve their posture. Taller isn't just legs, but also chest, too. I've seen skiers who only did legs "taller" but kept shoulders down/forward. I've seen skiers who kept shoulder "tall" but legs bent too much. Keep (both) the whole body taller.

 

I have always said that if you don't ride the ski correctly when doing nothing, how can you expect to ride the ski correctly in the course? So, be in the best stance possible the whole time you are on top of the water. If your muscle memory posture in the course isn't not yet perfect, then don't allow any second out of the course to be wasted on bad posture/stance. Be "perfect" as soon as you get up. Work to keep that during the course. Out the gates reestablish it and keep it all the way through the coast to set down.

 

What some people may not realize is that a true stacked "hips forward" taller posture is a very actively engaged core posture. Those core muscles are fired the whole time. They are fighting to keep, recover, and re-establish that tall stance.

 

For me, there are points during the course when I can assess and correct posture. I can assess my stance during the lean. If needed, I can correct my stance during or immediately after the edge change when the load of the boat is tapering off. The other point I can correct my stance is the fraction of time after the apex of the turn but before the boat's load comes on.

 

I guess my point is that skiers with good stance are not just passively there. Their core is working hard. They are actively assessing and correcting to keep or reestablish it.

[ReallyGottaSki]

Bam, there it is

[vic]

5 years of skiing still trying getting better but not there yet

[Adam Caldwell]

The only thing you need to know/do:

 

Stand your shoulders as far away from the ski as possible all of the time, everywhere. This will create the space for your hips to move between your shoulders and your feet. Exact same idea as standing up out of a chair.

 

Most people ride a ski as if they stood only half way up. Need to stand up all the way - getting maximum distance between the top of the ski and the shoulders.

 

Once your there, do not let the boat compress your body/legs as the load builds in the pull.

 

 

[ghutch]

BAM! THERE it is!

[gregy]

@lkb how's the stack progressing?

[Horton]

@adamhcaldwell dude I feel like you're stealing my coaching. The only difference is people listen to you. :-)

[Horton]

Seriously.... For the last few years I have told skiers to think of it as driving to the top of a squat in the gym but today I realized it might be better to visualize a dead lift. The point is to get your pelvis between your feet and shoulders.

 

This is the same idea as @adamhcaldwell is saying but just different words. Please note that I never use the words "hips up" or "shoulders back". Those terms might works for some but are misunderstood or misapplied as often as they are understood.

[lkb]

@gregy There have been ups and downs. Had to take a week off due to tendinitis. Also @MatthewBrown helped me realize that being stacked in and of itself is not the total answer. He helped me see that even when “stacked better” my com was way way too far back. So now my path is more complicated. I have to get stacked and have my com over the proper part of the ski while doing so. I’ve had some success at each of the two separately but not so much both at the same time. I will say that the passes I’ve skied lately when I truly had my com over my front foot were almost incredible. I’ve never generated so much speed into the first wake with so little effort.

Breaking 18 seasons worth of bad habits is test of patience and determination.

[lkb]

@gregy this was my first pass where I got my com nearer where it needs to be. Not sure how different it looks but the change in feeling was incredible....the first 2 or 3 buoys. The end of pass wasn’t as great. https://youtu.be/GkQWDzTm49s

[gregy]

Front half does look good there. Agree on the effort, last couple days out I was getting back on the ski and struggling at 28off. Let the rope out to the 25off training loop and just concentrated on stack and COM forward. Even with a huge head wind I was so wide at 1 ball I didn't quite know what to do. It was just smooth and effortless, it makes such a difference.

[OldboyII]

Very intermediate skier (it is me :) ) tried advise "Just Stand Up" or "Be taller on the ski" this weekend. It works amazingly well! All got smother and faster! Why I did not hear it before? Could save lot of time and energy.

[elr]

@lkb - front heel pressuring the release is my son's "swing thought" for getting his COM in the right position over the ski.

[tjm]

@horton thanks for posting the stack video. I injured my front knee pre season in bike accident. Been struggling all season, even on my opening pass. Your video woke me up and made me realize I was "protecting" my knee by throwing my weight on rear leg. My set last night I focused on keeping back leg straight and it made all the difference. Thanks

[Jaypro]

This has been a great thread, trying to think about balls of my feet to move my COM forward. Really made sense to me.

[lkb]

My advice to guys working on 15, 22, 28 would be put aside chasing buoys until you really develop a strong, stacked stance and you know how to be front foot dominant when in that posture. Those two things along with handle control are the building blocks that will get you a long long way. Don’t let pro coaches that you may see 2 or 3 days a year just put a band aid on it to get you a few more buoys. Fix it right, for the long haul.

I made the mistake of never perfecting that stuff early on. I ran 35 at tournaments several times and thought I was the business but I hit a wall that keeps a back foot dominant, squatty stance skier from going any further. Now I have to “clean up the mess” haha.

 

Edit: front foot dominant is not the right way to say it. I should have said balanced. Anyway, what I was trying to emphasize is to get away from back foot dominant weighting.

[OscawanaSkier]

I’m exactly that skier, and @lkb you’re the second person in the last two weeks (the other was @SkiJay) that has said the exact same thing. I wish someone four years ago told me to not go into the course until I had my stack down, with balanced footing. I’ve dedicated myself for the rest of the season to leaning drills and perfecting Seth’s whips. I’m hoping to come out the other side in much better shape for the course. Hopefully in the final weeks of the season I can jump back in and surprise myself with a PB!

[GaryWilkinson]

Fellas (and gals) check out the latest Radar video of Chris Rossi doing a pass at -38 off.

 

Magic.

 

I must have played it 20 times over the past 36 hours. It is a study in being balanced on both feet and having the ski consistently engaged, but not overly down in almost the whole turn from edge change to first wake on the back side of the ball turn.

 

Yes I’m sure the ski has something to do with it, but more importantly it’s his handle control and BALANCED stack position through the pass that is one to copy to get through -32 more consistently for me.

 

Thanks Chris, you continue to amaze.

[C5Quest]

Link?

[Horton]

[MDB1056]

Another GREAT thread from the archives. Excellent! 

[ski6jones]

@Hortonanything to add?

[Horton]

 

 

 

 

 

View this post on Instagram

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

A post shared by FlowPoint Method (@flowpointmethod)