Reflex Supershell 3.0

[lpskier]

I have a Reflex Supershell 3.0 and sadly I don’t like it. This far, all it has succeeded in doing is putting me on the tail of the ski and taking most of the turn out of my repertoire. I have tried the “normal” Reflex set up with the black cuff boot (off my trick ski) and it is better.

 

Since I own the Supershell and would like to try to make it work, does anyone have any suggestions for improving the function of the binding? Has anyone tried removing the black housing from the horse shoe and going with the horse shoe alone? I know the back of the boot needs to be cut down, but I don’t want to take that step until I’m sure I’m going to keep the binding. And other suggestions?

[Gloersen]

The original black-cuff Reflex shell provides more tip pressure with ankle dorsi-flexion due to the friction from the plastic tongue brake as the cuff articulates. The Reflex 3.0 with the strap brake has its upper cuff articulate too freely making tip engagement feel unfamiliar for some (imo).

(edit: that being said, I don't know how this compares to your familiar Fogman cuff/shell articulation feedback).

 

Consider bolting the upper cuff to the lower shell in a dorsi-flexed position that you find favorable for adequate tip engagement. Can vary upper buckle tension to suit. Then, trimming the back-top of the cuff may be needed to avoid too much tip rise from moving back too much (since cuff will be affixed). You can try a fixed position first (before trimming) to see if improved. Just need one bolt/washer/t-nut each side, easily removed if not helpful leaving only insignificant holes.

 

[Ed_Johnson]

Hi John, I am surprised you feel this way. I have Loved my Supershell for 3 years now, having switched from Goode Powershells... I like that it makes me feel ONE with the ski. I also had the Black Cuff on my trick ski, but feel the Supershell is firmer and more responsive.

 

The Mods I made are as follows. First, the base of the boot is really thick, so I drilled 8 holes in the bottom to lighten it up. Second, I did the Adam Cord Mod of fixing the Cuff at a solid 22 degrees forward. This helped me keep my front knee bent and COM in a more forward position. Third, cut the top of the upper cuff even. Can't say that improved performance, but sure made it easier to get into, when you have the solid fixed forward position...I also have the R-Style Rear, and cut the front lip down, which allowed me to get forward more, with my toes under the front release arms.

 

Some others felt the boot was too stiff and cut a slot between the first and second buckles to make it flex more...I felt the fixed forward position was the single best improvement.

 

 

[lpskier]

@Ed_Johnson @Gloersen I’m thinking I need a softer, more flexible boot, like my Fogmans, not a stiffer boot. 10-4 on cutting down the back, but as noted I don’t want to do that until the binder is otherwise working for me. Hence the question about removing the material around the horse shoe. That may give the boot some play on the plate and can be reinstalled if it doesn’t do the trick.

 

I know the point of the binding is to eliminate play and I know I want some play. The question is, since I already own the binding, can I get it to give me what I want.

 

FYI, I also know I need to make the boot flatter. Right now it is toes up.

[aupatking]

Be careful “pinning” the cuff forward, or as Ed said “fixing the cuff” at a forward angle. There is too much, and it’s not much at all past “perfect”. When you do, it will prerelease you at the first wake. It’s a dangerous fall, I’m sure you know. That said, if you have it perfect, it makes that boot about the best on the market (totally my opinion). Again, just my opinion but between comfort and function, I haven’t found any other boot better for me.

All that said, I am a -28 -32 skier at 34mph. I’m not running into 38 like you, so I may not be the guy to speak for your level.

If you decide you don’t want to cut on it or modify it, and it’s a LFF 10, I’ll buy it.

[Gloersen]

@lpskier - concur regarding adding flexibility, although some prefer the inherent low compliance rigidity of the Reflex 3.0/4.0 design.

 

It may require some irreversible modifications, i.e., you'll be the last owner. The bottom forefoot can be cut out to reduce torsional/lateral stiffness of the forefoot, as well as permit easier flattening of the shell with a heat gun to get the toes directly in contact with the ski. The toe bar may need to be thickened with material to accommodate.

Second opinion recommended.

[lpskier]

@aupatking Size 8. I love the fit. It fits my foot better than any other hardshell I’ve had. My foot is a size 10 and the binder is snug but not uncomfortable. That is why I bought it instead of another “regular” Reflex.

[cacman]

I removed the two black pieces that are on the side near the back and put taller ones on so the I could not lean back as far.

[BlueSki]

@Ed_Johnson did you makes those changes simultaneously or incrementally? I am curious if you felt much change as you lightened the boot with the holes?

[Ed_Johnson]

@BlueSki ... Big difference was locking the Cuff Forward. Cutting the Cuff and adding the holes was minor...You cannot believe how thick these boots are on the bottom. I counted today and I have 10 holes evenly spaced at 2-4-6-8-10, at 3/8". I am going to go back and increase all those to 1/2" today.

 

 

[skierjp]

If you go to the Reflex site it plainly says the White cuff boot is for slalom and the Black is for Trick. I did some research and most people said to stay away from the SuperShell. I just bought the white cuff so time will tell. I destroyed my Achilles in the Radar Vabor carbonex boot so I had to make a change.

[aupatking]

From using 3 different releasable bindings (not counting the Exo which I liked, and the baade powershell that broke my leg). I have no clue why Reflex has gone to calling the Black Cuff the trick binding and the white, the slalom.

Black Reflex - boot was great for function but I had to unbuckle it between pass 4-5 or 5-6 because of the discomfort. My foot is not that wide, but that boot still cramped it.

Supershell - as stock, basically promotes “leaning back”. Once I locked the cuff forward it has been the best performing and most comfortable boot.

Edge/Syndicate - nothing I can say bad. Comfort was great but I just couldn’t consistently keep pressure on the front of the ski like I wanted. I can’t say why, unlike the stock Supershell “lean back”, but I was just inconsistent with that aspect with that boot. You may not find that at all. I do feel that was a personal skiing style issue.

[Chef23]

@skierjp for a long time the black cuff was the only Reflex and many many people slalomed and tricked on it. I have also seen a kid trick over 5K on the white cuff. My son still slaloms on the black cuff but he isn't a deep shortline skier (22-28 off @36mph).

 

I have run the black cuff through 32 off @ 34 mph and it performed great. I see no reason why you couldn't ski the black cuff if it fit your foot.

[mmosley899]

@lpskier I agree with the mods that @Ed_Johnson suggested for the Supershell, except for the lightening holes. I don’t think weight under your foot has any significant effect. The Supershell with those mods is likely the best boot available. I have been using that boot for five years now and I experimented with these mods before many were using the boot.

 

My question is did you change to the Reflex release system or put it on your Fogman system? The Reflex system dynamics is completely different than your Fogman system. I never could run a pass on the Reflex system because of the dramatic difference in the dynamics from my MOB system. The boot was not the problem.

 

As to the different types of Reflex boots, or other brand of boots, any one of them will work. Each has its own characteristics and certain modifications will make each work for any skier, any event.

[gregy]

I'm using the original Supershell with the double loop front so can't comment on that. Does the 3.0 have the heel strap? I had to let the strap out some which helped make my turns more predictable. It did take some time transitioning to Supershell from black cuff, but they're some much more comfortable. For pure performance I like the old style boot, unfortunately they were just a little on the small size. I'm using the intuition aqua liner with a superfoot insole in the Supershell. I had to reheat the liner several times before I was happy with the fit.

[skierjp]

@Chef23 just stating what the Reflex web site says.

[teammalibu]

@Ed_Johnson could you post a pic of how you modified your boot to the forward angle position. Thsnks

[lpskier]

@mmosley899 I am on the Reflex plate and release system.

[Ed_Johnson]

@teammalibu...Better than a picture, which would only show a boot with a bolt through the cuff, I will tell you how to do it.

 

What I did was mount both feet in my boots, just like when I ski. Stood on the ski on the back platform of the boat, and got into a knees forward, best stacked position I could. Then I had my Wife take a sharpie and outline the cuff in that position.

Removed the boot, matched it to the outline, and drilled a 1/4" hole on each side of the cuff. Then put a stainless 1/4" bolt through with washers on each side with a nylon stop nut. Really simple.

 

I believe Adam Chord recommended 20 degrees forward. I measured mine afterwards and it turned out to be 22 degrees. I believe my method of doing it is simple, easy, and matches you personally to the position you want. I noticed immediate improvement the first time I skied. I also believe the solid boot gives you a better release when you need it.

 

 

[Steven_Haines]

@Ed_Johnson in the rare occasion that you wheelie, did you cut out a notch in the back of the upper shell to eliminate the chance of bruising or jamming the back of your leg/top of the boot?

[Ed_Johnson]

@Steven_Haines ... I cut the top of the boot totally EVEN across the top, no notches. The only difference I feel that it made, was making the boot easier to get into with the liner on.

 

 

[lpskier]

@Ed_Johnson Did you take off the top buckle, cut off the top of the boot and then reattach the buckle at a lower point?

 

Follow up question: What are you using for a back binder? After 18 years in a double hardshell, I’m experimenting with a kicker. So far, I have totally taken the skin off the end of my pinky toe. Ah, like the good ol’ days...

[Ed_Johnson]

@lpskier .... I cut the top flat right above the buckle, so no, I did not have to remove the buckle....However, like I said before, I did not notice any performance advantage doing that. It only made it easier to get into the boot with the liner on. Just for that reason I would do it again.

 

As far as a rear boot goes, that's a long story.... Andy M. told me to switch from the Dual Powershells I had been on since 1996 to the Reflex R-Style Rear in order to get more forward COM movement. I was really reluctant to do that since I felt I needed that secure feeling a back boot gave me. In order to make the switch I had to fool my mind into thinking I was still in a rear boot. In order to do that I used my regular liner from the Powershell and attached a velcro strap tightly around the top of it. That way it still felt like I had a full back boot on. Worked great, and I still use that till this day.

 

Since then I modded the R-Style by cutting down the top of the toe surface flat, and lifting the rear 3/8th of an inch with large nylon washers. This allowed me to get my feet closer together, with my toes under the front release arms. This makes the ski more reactive. Plus the R-Style gives a very safe release, which I have proven more than once.

 

 

[lpskier]

@Ed_Johnson I have an R Style back binder, but I’m not crazy about it.

[Ed_Johnson]

@lpskier ... For me it was the mods mentioned above and the fact you had to have the right fit with the liner you use. One thin liner I tried caused my heel to move around and was totally unusable for me to ski. I like my foot to feel firm and not move around.

 

 

[BlueSki]

@lpskier I went from getting hurt by the R-style to a double reflex. It seems to work for Terry Winter, so it must be a viable option. I have been very happy with it and try to run the top of the rear a bit loose on the suggestion of Adam Caldwell. Releases have been consistent.

[lpskier]

@Ed_Johnson My front hardshell actually fits better than any other I have used. That is it’s big positive. I really didn’t like it at all in January with the R style rear but I’m starting to warm up to it. We may be reaching something like detente.

 

@BlueSki Thanks for the suggestion but the point of the exercise is to get away from a rear hardshell, at least for now. I’ve been in a double hardshell set up for 18 years.

 

I’m five sets into a kicker and I’m starting to feel more confident. At first I was gritting my teeth and hoping not to go waaaaay out the front. Now I feel like I can maybe turn the ski.

[C5Quest]

@Ed_Johnson How were able to accurately measure the 22 deg angle on your set up. I’m going to use your technique tonight and have a friend use a sharpie and mark up my boot so I can pin it forward. Just wondering best way to get the angle once I bolt it

[Chef23]

@lpskier did you run out of Fogman parts?

[aupatking]

If you decide to lock your cuff forward, if it feels, AT ALL, like it is forced articulation, either as you come out of the water or while you ride on flat water, I would STRONGLY suggest you let go of the handle and take some forward lean angle out of your “locking” setup. If it’s got too much forward you will prerelease. It’s not something you necessarily feel on land.

[C5Quest]

Thanks. Will look out for that. I had a couple bad releases last season that screwed up my ankle. Don’t need to go through that again

[aupatking]

Well, prereleases tend to screw up your face more than your ankle so....

[C5Quest]

I just about broke my ankle and got the “Reflex bite”. Bashed the heck out of my shin on the release and bleeding everywhere. Happened twice. Not fun.

[Ed_Johnson]

@C5Quest .... First I did get into the best forward stacked position, marked it with a silver sharpie, bolted it together, then measured afterwards. I believe Adam Chord said to do it at 20 degrees. I used a meter with a floating arm. It is what I used to set angle on the ailerons on my Jet and my Aerobatic Laser Aircraft. I had the boot off the ski, measured from the back by getting it vertical, then measured the cuff. You could probably use a protractor though.

 

I also recommend adding a number on the Reflex Release, to avoid a pre-release, since it will add more forward pressure. Mine was previously 7.5 and changed it to 8.5. Works great !!!

 

 

[C5Quest]

? well Seeing as I can’t even reach the ailerons on the 3 aircraft I currently fly (C-5, 757,767) that’s not going to help me ???

I figured I can use a protractor or something. Good advise on once done to add a number to the release.

[Ed_Johnson]

@C5Quest...You can get similar dial meters at Home Depot and Lowes, but a protractor may work just as well. By the way I am also Rated on the 757, 767, and every model of the 747. Great airplanes.

 

Let me know how this turns out for you. I noticed IMMEDIATE improvement.

 

 

[C5Quest]

Will do. Head out on trip this weekend so will be a project for midweek. Should be able to at least mark for measurement tomorrow.

[C5Quest]

@Ed_Johnson I’ll have to list up pics and my findings. I managed to get this done yesterday. Used your method to mark and pin/bolt the cuff. From what I can tell it’s close to 20 +/- a couple degrees. I wanted to get it done and try it last night before I hit the road for a week.

-used a carpenter square to get a vertical 90 with the boot on a flat surface and a plastic protractor to try and get the angle between the vertical of the square and the angle of the cuff. Rough at best. Even tried it again with an old aviation plotter. Lol. It looked about the same either way. Measured out after I pinned the cuff and around 20 deg the best I can tell.

-had to chop off the top of the cuff as it was and still is a PIA to Stuff foot with liner into shell with pinned cuff. Will clean it up later by filing and sanding

-it really put me in more forward position than I’m used to highlighting my bad habits of falling back. Took a couple passes to adjust. Just played around at -15. Will ski it again midweek and have final thoughts. I can see it really benefits forward position. Had way too much movement before.

-I may experiment by reducing the forward angle a touch and bolting in separate location to find optimum position. If nothing else it will give me 2 settings to choose from.

-from what I can tell the mod will be worth the effort once I adjust and can run some solid passes. From there I’ll put on my whisper fin. Made some other tweaks to binding position this year so using a building block approach. Little change at a time

[Ed_Johnson]

@C5Quest ... Agree, it is a PIA to get into the binding, but that's a small point. The rewards are much greater. Cutting the cuff flat with the top buckle helps a lot. Also, many 39 off skiers have made this mod. I also believe that in a bad situation it will give you a more positive release.

 

Can't wait to hear what you think of the WF. I'm Loving it, since you can adjust it from Mild to Wild. Good Luck !!!

 

 

[owennibley]

This morning I did the first set of the season. Last August I broke my ankle in a bungee double boot set up. I have been sking for 15 years with a double boot setup but after this injury I wanted a releaseable boot. I feel that would've prevented my injury. Because I have super short fat feet, it was recommended to me to get the Reflex Supershell. I also swithed to an HO RTP in the back. Well, I didn't get up the first try.... and boy was it hard to get up at all. Even once I was up, I couldn't turn the ski at all. It was so different. I wasn't trying to run bouys, just free skiing because I didn't want to push too hard, but still. I couldn't turn the darn thing. The soft tissue on my ankle still hurts and is a little swollen 9 months later so I'm sure my inability to ski had something to do with that. But is this normal? How long will it take to get used to the hardshell bindings?

 

Also, I did crash and it released perfectly. I had the DIN settings fairly low so I will put them where it is recommended. All off season I've been nervous to get back out there because of my injury, but today helped relieve some of that anixety.

[BraceMaker]

Probably the RTP messing with you more than the front boot. That's the part of the battle that I had trouble with - might find it helpful to use a Radar HRT for a few months.

[rfa]

How is my friend Mr. @lpskier? I don't know how I missed this tread. Are you saying I am now the last standing Fogman user? What triggered the move? Have you released yet? What's it like releasing with feet separate? After 15 years I have no idea what that would feel like. Good luck wherever you end up!

[owennibley]

Hey guys.... I need help. Its been a month and apprx. 20 sets on the Reflex and RTP setup and I can't figure out what is going wrong. Last season before I broke my ankle I could ski 32/15,22,28 all day no problem. 34/15 was getting really consistent as well. Come this season I can't even get 32/15 consistent at all! This morning I had one heck of a crash and got shook up pretty bad just at 32/15. I didn't want to end my ski session with that so I hopped on my buddies Radar Senate PRO (double boot) and nailed 32/15 2 times in a row no problem. WTF?

I ski on a 67" Superlite CX, weigh 190 (I know it right at the limit for that ski), RFF, stock settings. Anyone have any advice or had an experience with this?

[skierjp]

Try starting with your buckles on the Reflex very loose.

[owennibley]

@skierjp thanks for the suggestion. The middle buckle is already at the last hook. I can't go any more loose. But I will try to loosen the other 2 buckles. Why would having the buckles loose help out?

I also think it might have to do with the RTP like @BraceMaker said. I will try a rear boot in the back and if that helps then I will try to find a HO chop top.

[C5Quest]

Have you tried the reflex rear R-style? Basically a mix of semi-boot with a RTP. I’m in a Supershell 2.0. Basically the same as the 3.0 in theory. I pinned the top cuff forward about 20 deg and have been much more consistent. With out it pinned I was all over the place. Too much movement. I’m on a Vapor Pro Build now but last season I had a Senate as my back up ski. That ski was amazingly stable for me and could consistently run easier passes without working. Could be your ski set up also.

[lpskier]

After skiing with a modified Reflex Supershell and a) an RTP; b)an RTP with a heel cup; c) a rear Wiley high wrap; and d) a Reflex R style rear boot, I gave up on the different binding set up at least until after Nationals. I got into my old bindings and immediately skied better.

[skierjp]

@owennibley try and get the buckle tightness to mimic the boot you've been skiing on. The Reflex is going to be very responsive to your every move. You tube Reflex bindings and watch Andy Mapples video.

[AkBob]

I love the saying...... you date your ski and marry your bindings! Maybe not ready for divorce??

[owennibley]

@C5Quest No I haven't tried the R-style. Just a RTP. I'll try anything right now as I'm desperate.

@lpskier thats not comforting at all. haha. I went to the releaseable bindings to prevent my ankle injury from happening again but the way I'm skiing now is way more dangerous than before.

@skierjp I will watch the youtube video and test it again this weekend.

@AkBob Apparently not.... the grass is always greener on the other side.... right?