Baller rimodico Posted April 6, 2019 Baller Share Posted April 6, 2019 Bought a Star Glazer wake edition perfect pass system around 4 years ago for a Prostar 190 2001. I loved it ever since. I contacted the gentelmen at PP a couple of weeks ago as I became curious about a "z-box" upgrade to make the system similar to those high-end "zero-off" system most tournament ski boats use. Long story short, I installed it last night and used it for the first time this morning. It is AMAZING!!! timings for the course are excact same as specification. Big thanks to Gary, Mark and Carol from PerfectPass! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Bill22 Posted April 6, 2019 Baller Share Posted April 6, 2019 I assume a boat from 2001 has a mechanical throttle? I have always wondered if Zbox works better on one or the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller rimodico Posted April 6, 2019 Author Baller Share Posted April 6, 2019 @bill22 it is mechanical indeed. I skied in the nautique 2019 last weekend. Timming-wise, you would not be able to tell the difference Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ Rednucleus Posted April 6, 2019 Baller_ Share Posted April 6, 2019 What is involved to install the upgrade? My buddy has an 03 Sunsetter with the wake edition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller rimodico Posted April 6, 2019 Author Baller Share Posted April 6, 2019 @Rednucleus it requires to open the lid at the control module, plug a usb-type in the mother board and bypass the gps antenna thru the z-box. 5minutes tops Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Bill22 Posted April 6, 2019 Baller Share Posted April 6, 2019 @Rednucleus a Zbox upgrade is on my list, just need to get back into ski shape so I can appreciate the difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller skihart Posted April 6, 2019 Baller Share Posted April 6, 2019 @Bill22 let me know.....I will bring it to Charleston ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Bill22 Posted April 6, 2019 Baller Share Posted April 6, 2019 @skihard bring it and I won’t charge you for a ride to the airport. Fair trade? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller mcskier41 Posted April 7, 2019 Baller Share Posted April 7, 2019 Z Box is wonderful. SO Much more forgiving to ski than Zero Off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller jhughes Posted April 7, 2019 Baller Share Posted April 7, 2019 It's a fantastic option for an older boat. The latest software with the self-calibration is totally amazing, too. It's not ZO but it's the next best thing for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller skihart Posted April 7, 2019 Baller Share Posted April 7, 2019 @Bill22 hmmm tempting. Do they have Uber in Charleston? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Windsurfnut Posted April 7, 2019 Baller Share Posted April 7, 2019 Awesome to hear. I got one for Christmas for our 2002 Ski Nautique. Can't wait for the ice to go and try it out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Bill22 Posted April 7, 2019 Baller Share Posted April 7, 2019 @skihart you do have a point there. I’ll give you $250 for the used Zbox. But I forgot to tell you that your portion of the AirBnB cleaning fee is $249. Back on topic, Zbox rocks for old boats (I guess, haven’t tried it yet). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller UWSkier Posted April 7, 2019 Baller Share Posted April 7, 2019 Z-Box does what I need it to. These are open water passes on different boats, but you can hear the engine working. One is a ZO Rev Q on B2 on a TT197. The other is a Stargazer V9 with ZBox, also on B2 on my Malibu Response. Been extremely pleased with SG v9. It locks in almost as fast as ZO. Even with the most hamfisted driver, it won't overshoot speed by more than 1.5 MPH before settling in. Video behind 197 with ZO Rev Q on B2 Video behind a mechanical throttle Response LX, SGv9 at B2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller whitecaps Posted April 8, 2019 Baller Share Posted April 8, 2019 ZBox is great. Im afraid the whole " must have zero off movement" turned a lot of possible tournament participants into "I'm not interested, thank you". I love the ZBox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Ski_Dad Posted April 8, 2019 Baller Share Posted April 8, 2019 Do you guys think this is a big improvment over the old 6.5NG ? i don't ski in the course, but I'm tempted to upgrade for cool factor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller rimodico Posted April 8, 2019 Author Baller Share Posted April 8, 2019 @ski_dad understanding and playing with the ABC x 123 options is enough entretaining despite not skiing the course, definetely ads to the cool factor :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Bill22 Posted April 8, 2019 Baller Share Posted April 8, 2019 @Ski_Dad version 9.0 is definitely worth the $ to upgrade. It really does lock in faster. I can’t comment on Zbox. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Keith_Menard Posted April 9, 2019 Baller Share Posted April 9, 2019 Version 9 is better in every way! I literally have version 9.0 and it is a lot better than my last version, my friends has version 9.2 or something and his numbers are dead on every time. PP being the awesome people they are is upgrading me when I get my boat back because I am having some slight issues at 28 & 32mph. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Ski_Dad Posted April 9, 2019 Baller Share Posted April 9, 2019 6.5NG locks in quickly on my boat. I have a friends who also has a malibu with 8.5 and you have to be careful to not overshoot the throttle, if I back off as soon as he is up it locks in fine. Sounds like they have fixed that in 9. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Lieutenant Dan Posted April 13, 2019 Baller Share Posted April 13, 2019 I upgraded my 6.5NG last year to Star Gazer 9.12 and ZBOX. Works pretty well after some fiddling with the background settings. Even after a whole lot of trying the one ball times still seem to come in hot. May be a bit off topic but I heard a rumor that there is a new version available that is a bit more responsive ie is closer yet to Zero Off. Can anyone confirm this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mayhem Posted April 15, 2019 Share Posted April 15, 2019 I upgraded my boat recently to the stargazer/ z-boz. I have not had the boat in the water yet, but I will report back on the difference from the original(2002) equipment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Keith_Menard Posted April 17, 2019 Baller Share Posted April 17, 2019 @Lieutenant Dan the latest seems to be version 9.20. I don't know any of the improvements though. Hope to be getting it next week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller skihard Posted April 17, 2019 Baller Share Posted April 17, 2019 @Bill22 I think you typed the wrong guy in your reply of "Bring it" :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Bill22 Posted April 17, 2019 Baller Share Posted April 17, 2019 @skihard yep, but that other guy is wishy washy so if you want to ski in Charleston first weekend in May I have a spare room. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller BlueSki Posted September 9, 2019 Baller Share Posted September 9, 2019 My brother has a set up so short that you pull out for the gates as the boat is getting on plane. That requires great throttle management to hit the speed correctly on his stargazer. Does the Z-box upgrade help with a short set up and hitting speed correctly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller skiboyny Posted September 9, 2019 Baller Share Posted September 9, 2019 z-box definitely tightens up the speed at all phases of the course. That said it doesn't make it into something it isn't. It not going to respond like ZO but it will help your situation. Make sure your throttle return spring is working the way it should if your using a servo. The servo does take a bit of extra time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Lieutenant Dan Posted September 9, 2019 Baller Share Posted September 9, 2019 @BlueSki The Key is to have a “Version 9” release of Stargazer. That version allows you to throttle up like they do with Zero Off (almost) and the system will dial back to the set speed much quicker than with earlier releases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller UWSkier Posted September 9, 2019 Baller Share Posted September 9, 2019 @BlueSki Z-Box won't help with short setup, but as @Lieutenant Dan said, V9 helps, especially if you have a good throttle return spring and Kx set to ++. When I have my boat on ++, if I throttle up hard, the boat rips up to speed, then practically throws you against the windshield backing down if necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller BlueSki Posted September 10, 2019 Baller Share Posted September 10, 2019 Thanks all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller GaryJanzig Posted March 12, 2020 Baller Share Posted March 12, 2020 I just installed Stargazer 3 event Version 9.2 with the ZBOX on my 1994 Ski Nautique. Looking forward to trying it out. You can deactivate it and still run it as a standard Perfect Pass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Deanoski Posted March 12, 2020 Baller Share Posted March 12, 2020 I put z box in my 1990sn last season awesome very close to zero Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller aupatking Posted March 12, 2020 Baller Share Posted March 12, 2020 I was happy with it in my 02 196. I still upgraded to ZO. Truthfully, probably only worth it for the resale. The Z-box was very nice. I will say, though, the PP version 9.2 in my 97 196 is so good that I don’t really know that the Z-box is even necessary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Bill22 Posted March 12, 2020 Baller Share Posted March 12, 2020 @aupatking in the 97 did you fine tune the background settings or leave them at stock? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller jpattigr Posted March 12, 2020 Baller Share Posted March 12, 2020 I have Z-Box 9.2 and have not had to fix any background settings, in old versions had surging but smooth and quick to lock with 9.2. This is a great product! Ski behind ZO boats and Z-Box almost everyday and pull is very close. 05 SN w Excalibur 330, FYI and still love my boat! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller aupatking Posted March 12, 2020 Baller Share Posted March 12, 2020 @Bill22 had to do no edits at all. It’s been good since I plugged it in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller BCM Posted March 13, 2020 Baller Share Posted March 13, 2020 @Bill22 - When I updated to 9.2 and installed Z-box .I had to do a fair bit of tuning and tweaking in my 98 CC. Without the tweaking it would run OK, often a slightly hot (-0.02) at 1-ball then slow for 2 and 3, then catch up 3-4. Gate to 3-ball was close enough and skied fine, it was going from +0.02 at 3-ball to -0.04 at 4 ball that was hard to deal with. Start with testing the normal or inverted tach settings, then be sure to calibrate baseline, then test baseline speeds. If the tach or baseline are out of whack, no amount of tweaking will get you where you need to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller igkya Posted March 16, 2020 Baller Share Posted March 16, 2020 Had similar experience as @BCM. Engine would surge and then get too soft at times in an effort to end up with good times. It also felt like we were skiing with a steel cable. Got tired of messing with the settings as none seemed to fix the issue. Changed to practice mode and the surging went away, the pull felt better and times were still good. None of us ski tournaments so practice mode isn't an issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller BCM Posted March 16, 2020 Baller Share Posted March 16, 2020 @igkya - I was able to get mine to settle down nicely. I had been running SG for a few years with no trouble, turns out I had to switch from normal to inverted tach settings, then some minor tweaking and it is working well. Prior to testing the tach setting I was getting frustrated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Steven_Haines Posted March 17, 2020 Baller Share Posted March 17, 2020 I had the same problem as @BCM. I got the 9.0 upgrade and still had the surge issues until I went to the inverted tach mode and now it’s rock solid! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Deanoski Posted March 17, 2020 Baller Share Posted March 17, 2020 I have the newest version 9.2 and it has worked flawlessly. installed and ran the calibrations and done worth getting the new version. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller GSchmid Posted March 18, 2020 Baller Share Posted March 18, 2020 I put in Stargazer in my '02 196 last May and unfortunately it sapped about 1+ month of my prime ski season getting dialed in. Thanks to input from the BOS forum, I finally figured it out, PP was no help at all. I ended up flattening out the "Background Settings" all to the same level and adjusted from there; started at 25, then tuned to get actuals. The default settings caused a major surge after 1 ball. First image is where I started: This is where I ended up: Now that it's dialed, it works awesome! Pull feels great, early and wide, and all segments are +/-0.02. I would highly recommend SG w/Z-Box, but I honestly don't know what they were thinking with the high "Ball 3" setting as default. Didn't work for my boat. Didn't work for shortline skiing! I would love to hear an explanation about why the engine should "proactively" increase the engine RPM during a pass. Oh... forgot, I also had to crank up my KX. Can't remember the numbers, but I had to go from like 8 to 15. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattW Posted March 18, 2020 Share Posted March 18, 2020 GSchmid what motor is in your 02? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ Wish Posted March 18, 2020 Baller_ Share Posted March 18, 2020 @GSchmid what version pp is that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller GSchmid Posted March 18, 2020 Baller Share Posted March 18, 2020 Engine is a Ford GT40 - 5.8. PP/SG is Version 9.20. And I did get a new GPS puck, apparently there was a recall last summer and they sent me the new puck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller BCM Posted March 18, 2020 Baller Share Posted March 18, 2020 @Gschmid - I am running something like 02, 60, ? and am close in my 98 with GT40. If I used your numbers at 34mph my 1-ball time would likely be real fast, at 10 I was -0.03. How is your baseline speed calibration? When my baselines were off my settings were getting real weird, after adjusting the tach settings and baseline speed it settled out. With factory settings I was within about +/- 0.03 with the occasional 0.04, now I am near even. I am also sorry to hear about your experience with PP support, they were super helpful for me. I was able to get my '98 skiable in about an hour and then dialed in after a week, maybe 2. I also had to tune down my KX to get a feel similar to ski partners SN 200. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Windsurfnut Posted March 22, 2020 Baller Share Posted March 22, 2020 @GSchmid my 2002 196 with GT40 is in storage now, but I think my numbers are REALLY close to what your finals are. I am also running V9.2 with ZBOX. I started a google doc last year for keeping a database of PP numbers: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1UsM99RDC-YlpybtqcjCv1-0ArnljSR_lNVITXSYwElA/edit?usp=drive_open&ouid=102524635880918549491 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller GSchmid Posted March 23, 2020 Baller Share Posted March 23, 2020 @BCM, the defaults caused me to have a big RPM jump after 1 ball. I could feel it as skier, and hear it as a driver, so I needed to level that out. My break-through came from someone on BOS who posted that the 1 ball adjustment actually affects the 2 ball time; and the 3 ball adjustment actually affects the 4 ball time. (would have been nice for PP to mention that!). Anyway, after you heed that advice, it's all downhill. I was chasing at hot first buoy and it caused me to dial down the 1-ball number, which only made the surging worse. I wish PP was more open with how these 3 little numbers are used in their algorithm... and I wish they would explain why it's a good idea to give you different amounts of throttle at different places in the course. I do recall that PP Classic had a few of those fudge factors like SSB, but that had some logic to it (you don't pull out of 6 ball) I had that zero'ed out in my boat - I guess that's because I'm usually late out of 5 :) @Windsurfnut, I need to write all of my numbers down and I'll plug them into your spreadsheet. That's a good idea to set up a database. I also recall others posting numbers on this forum a few seasons ago. The consensus, as I recall, was to level them out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller BCM Posted March 25, 2020 Baller Share Posted March 25, 2020 @GSchmid - the way I understand it the system will try to bring things back to zero, so, if you have a slow 1-ball time it will hammer you in the next segment as it tries to catch up, then often over shoots. I checked the other day and I am running 02, 55, and ?? (I forgot already) and getting within +/-0.02. I find it interesting that similar boats with similar motor are running such different numbers. Again, PP was super helpful for me, quick responses with lots of detail. They are the ones who highlighted to me how each segment impacts the next. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller GaryJanzig Posted April 8, 2020 Baller Share Posted April 8, 2020 Anyone have a Ski Nautique with the 240HP engine, Version 9.2 and ZBOX? If so, how did it work for you, and did you have to adjust the background settings? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now