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Denali C75 ..41off ..Boom!


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  • Baller

If you're curious about how far outside the box we went with this design, all you need to do is take a look at the settings he's running:

1.055 DFT

2.520 Deep

6.720 Tips

7 S-wing,

27.75 Front Boot

 

This is a different breed of water ski.

 

 

 

@Ed_Johnson that's Rev R on C2 behind the 6L Malibu TXI. I keep telling @adamhcaldwell he needs to load Rev S and run Plus mode because he's going to love it.

 

 

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  • Baller

Its hard to explain how much work went into developing this ski over the last 18+months. I thought we had something good with the V7.1 prototype over 18months ago. Then, just a few months ago in November the first Medium v7.5 was born. Cord flew to Charleston a few days before thanksgiving to test the first v7.5 prototype before winter. I was baffled when he ran 4@41 after two fin adjustments on his second set on the water, I KNEW we had something special.

 

Below are some snapshots to show the "reality" of that 41pass. If I can get away with stuff like this on my offside at 4ball at 41(with ski pointing at 1 ball on the back of 4), then I think anyone who gets the opportunity to ride this ski is going to experience slalom skiing in a whole new way.

 

Like @AdamCord said, this ski is FUNDAMENTALLY different. It will be exciting to see how it works in the hands of others this summer, especially as we continue to hone in on the 'magic' fin settings.

 

 

I cant tell you if its the CG fin, the S-wing, or the v7.5...but something about this setup JUST WORKS.

 

cp90ilm1vjsr.png

 

cniim5qc95x8.png

hj6g5deye5x4.png

0te2ymh1jjj9.png

 

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  • Baller
Second to the last pic @adamcaldwell I thought the pass was over considering all one could see was spray. Then out of no where like some kind a super hero emerging from an explosion you appear from behind that BallOfSpray back in position. Damn that's some second to none skiing and it's long been felt by me that all your Denali skis let you get away with stuff one shouldn't. Looks like you may have perfected that characteristic. ?.
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  • Baller

@ballsohard @Swerve200

 

We'll get more info out but here is the basic premise behind this ski's philosophy.

 

c75 Blog Post (copied below)

 

Visit denaliskis.com/c75-ski to add your name to the 2019 c75 preorder list.

 

Denali c75 Design Philosophy - Yaw-Pitch-Roll

 

The initial design philosophy for the c75 started 2 years ago with a list of objectives. We didn't want to release the ski to the public until we had met all of the objectives on this list.

 

Easy to build angle

Reduce pressure on the body during the pull

Create space before the buoy

Easy automatic cast-out

Smooth, fast acceleration

Stable and fast deceleration

Low drag with light & nimble feel

Automatic and tight turn radius

Stable tip height during turn

Tail does NOT sink at back of the ball

Consistent gate glides and turn in

Predictable and consistent finish

Easy to sustain connection past CL.

Stays out in front during preturn

No slack hits

 

In order to do this, we needed to take a closer look at what the ski needs to do coming off the second wake and into the turn. This led to:

 

lr88mk20s2l0.png

 

Yaw-Pitch-Roll not Roll-Pitch-Yaw

 

The c75 is a phase shift in the fundamental characteristics of a slalom ski. Our objective was to get the ski to do automatically what many pro-level skiers have learned to accomplish through technique. Most skis are extremely stable in Yaw, but easy to Roll over, forcing the skier to take a narrow path to the buoy. The c75 takes a completely different approach.

 

A ski that is very free to move in Yaw rotation - like the c75 - will change its trajectory earlier coming off the 2nd wake. This helps the skier to sustain a more effortless connection – carrying the skier on a wider arc further up-course of the buoy. From there, as the preturn phase progresses, the Yaw rotation disperses energy in the form of spray. This helps the ski decelerate and lose outbound energy as we approach buoy width. The decelerating ski begins to ride deeper in the tail, which is the second phase, known as the Pitch rotation. The deeper riding tail helps to stabilize the ski, and progressively shed down-course speed on the approach to apex. In the apex of the turn, the reach and extension move the skiers COM out over the edge of the ski, finally increasing roll angle. Because the ski has already rotated in Yaw so much by this point, the ski effortlessly finishes the turn. The increase in roll angle through the final stage of the turn creates this "finish" where the ski very aggressively reduces the down-course slip accelerates back toward the wakes.

 

This all means the line will be coming tighter - not looser - as you move through the apex of the turn. The culmination of these dynamic changes makes it easier for the skier to move their hips back to the handle, achieve an earlier, easier stack, and accomplish an earlier, lighter and faster swing off the second wake into the next buoy.

 

Visit denaliskis.com/c75-ski to add your name to the 2019 c75 preorder list. We hope you love the new Denali c75 as much as we do!

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  • Baller

@Jordan,

 

I have run the ski at 36 only a few times. Two zones with the fin I was able to run straight up the line and through 39 without an adjustment. But, it was insainly fast and hair on fire! The third, not so much. BUT, then we pulled the fin DFT back 150/1000ths, and I ran some amazing passes. I feel like I have done all I can do for this ski at 34mph, and excited to go see whats possible at 36 next!

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  • Baller

@Bruce_butterfield is right.

 

Basically, we designed a ski that will "move-into-angle" - and more importantly - "out-of-angle" at a FASTER rate. The later is where the magic happens.

 

Thanks for all the positive comments!

 

We have put a tremendous amount of hard work into designing this ski. We really hope others will feel the things we are feeling out there!

 

@ghutch YES. Probably not by me as I am only 5’9”. But, Mapple could go deep, and I know nate can go deep. If we can get beyond 1 and 2, we we can run the pass. Those line lengths are more about sustaining swing speed beyond CL so you can catch up to the boat before the ball arivies. Something this ski does very very well. As we continue to evolve our understanding in the future, we will only get closer to finding a way to make it happen!

 

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  • Baller

As soon as graphic sheets show up at my doorstep we will start building/shipping production skis.

 

Signing up on the pre-order list is VERY Helpful for us if you are SERIOUS about getting one. I still work another full-time job and also run the property at Trophy Lakes and personally build, finish and ship all of these skis, so the more we can plan ahead the better.

 

That being said, I'm not planning to build out huge volumes of skis, so if you want one, definitely get in line early like @Taperflex. People on that list will have priority on delivery as skis come available which should very safely be before the end of the month.

 

@teammalibu - I am on the traditional ML rope, that is probably due for replacement after this winter. I am also NOT yet on the latest rev of ZO. So if things are really better with those upgrades, then I cant imagine where the limit is for the potential of this ski.

- Also, no chiropractors needed. My body feels great, not an ache or a pain anywhere.

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@adamhcaldwell so what does @AdamCord do?

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About Horton

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  • Baller

@Horton

 

He is raising the next world record holders up in NY. Lol

 

@AdamCord has the hardest part of the job. Putting all of our crazy ideas into a 3-D model so we can rapid prototype molds.

 

Additionally, he is great at working with customers to dial in fin and boot settings. He is the master.

 

Let’s just say I’m happy to sick to the ski building operation.

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@AdamCord @adamhcaldwell Have you applied or are you applying for any patents on any of the things you've designed/invented? You don't have to say what you've applied for patents on if that's confidential; I'm just curious to know if you're actively going after patents on any of your innovations/ideas. I'm no patent lawyer but I would guess that some of the innovations you've come up with are patentable and if some of them do turn out to be real game changers, those patents could become very important and valuable things.

 

P.S. Great skiing @adamhcaldwell. I run 41' off every time I ski (in my imagination) so I know just how challenging and satisfying it is to run it. ;) What impresses me is how much momentum and speed you're able to bleed off rounding the ball and then how bloody fast the ski accelerates coming out of the turn and how quickly it gets you across the wakes and all the way out to the ball line with time to spare ahead of the next ball. It's really quite impressive. The C75 seems to have the handling, braking, acceleration and speed of a premium F1 race car. If it's got all that AND is also user friendly and foregiving of errors in technique then you've really got a winner there. I'm tippin' my hat to you.

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  • Baller

@JAS - not quite. YAW referes to the singular element of rotation about a vertical axis.

 

This ski will YAW more freely then any other ski.

 

Watch closely in the video at how early after CL the tip is pointing down the lake. This is how I am able to run such an early line.

 

Think of it like this... *** The more YAW rotation you can produce before rolling the ski onto then new edge, the less you have to actually turn as you aproach the buoy ***

 

@DangerBoy - We weren’t kidding about nicknaming this ski “Spraymaker”.

 

When I get to my hardest pass I simply do the following....First - Reach down and push the INSANITY MODE button to ON. - then, crank the volume up to 11 - then, let the c75 go atomic level and HOLD ON FOR THE RIDE.

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  • Baller

@jayski I’m not sure of the design philosophy behind the Wide Ride, but I think the c75 is a pretty big departure from that concept. That ski was very wide in the tip and tapered down to a more normal size in the tail.

 

The c75 doesn’t look a whole lot different than other Denalis from a distance. There is more width but instead of it being at the tip of the ski where it won’t get used, it’s right under your feet. This puts the added surface area right where it’s needed, and achieves our goal of reducing yaw stability while increasing roll and pitch stability.

 

This puts the center of lift under the ski much closer to the fin, which allows the ski to build angle into the wakes much easier, and just as importantly, decrease angle coming off the pull automatically.

 

While most ski companies put their effort into how a ski turns, we are primarily focused on how this ski moves through the course to CREATE SPACE. A ski that creates space before the turn, causes the line to come tight before apex, and is dynamically stable will turn great on its own.

 

Our #1 objective is to make the course feel LONG and NARROW. That’s how you gain buoys.

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  • Baller

I'm certain Adam can answer that much better than I, but I can tell you that one of the miracle aspects of the CG fin is the incredible ease of rotating (yawing) the ski in the preturn, which sets up the turn itself to be so easy.

Watch video of top skiers. It's incredible how early they start to point down course and even back across course.

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@drewski32 I think the most of the slalom ski world will agree with you.

 

I think we are going to save that explanation for later -in a format in which we can be much more thorough without causing more confusion and questions then we already probably do.

 

@Than_Bogan is on the right track for sure!

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  • Baller

In that case, maybe I'll just go for it. If I completely botch things up, then Denali can always just say "That Than idiot had no idea what he was talking about."

 

This post is a bit epic, and begins from the things I learned with the CG Fin. But it gets to yawing eventually :smile: .

 

Firstly, I think most of us think about the physics of ski movement in way that doesn't match reality at all. The first mental shift needed is to realize that a ski running the slalom course is sliding sideways nearly all of the time.

 

Last year when I was guinea-pigging early CG prototypes (and later the real thing), I was surprised to find myself thinking back to @Horton's videos of running -38 at very slow speed on a trick ski. What I didn't notice the first time is the amazing angle he could take and how crazy wide and early he could get. What happens next, of course, is a bit hideous -- he has to zig-zag like mad before and after the ball. So a trick ski is not actually suited to high end slalom skiing! (DUH.) But it does point out that taking angle, casting wide, and getting early does not require a fin.

 

In fact, the fin works against that! At least in part. When you are approaching the wakes, the ski is actually sliding downcourse, which means the flow is pushing the fin backwards -- i.e. the presence of the fin is trying to straighten your ski not help you to hold angle. Now fast-forward to the pre-turn. Due to geometry, a short-line skier must move up significantly on the boat coming into the pre-turn and therefore the ski must point significantly down-course. But we still desire to go wider, which can only happen by sliding laterally -- and again the fin is trying to stop that from happening.

 

Finally we go to finish the turn and suddenly we are OH SO THANKFUL that we hauled that fin across the course with us, because now it can stop the rotation of the turn -- without a fin we'd just keep rotating to where the tail pointed down course and probably even further. (Thus why the trick ski suddenly becomes so unsuited to the task.)

 

Once you begin to grasp the physics in those terms, I think the concept of early yaw becomes a lot easier to understand. Indeed, my first reaction to reading Cord's blog post was "That is gonna be so awesome because it takes the onside of the CG Fin to the next level -- and on both sides!"

 

If you're thinking in terms of a ski that tracks on rails, then early yaw sounds synonymous with running narrow. But skis don't work like that, and indeed that would be very undesirable if they did. We require the ability to point the ski up course to move with the boat while still travelling outbound to get wide enough for the buoy.

 

Of course, when it comes time to finish the turn, we need to be able to stop that rotation, but we have the fin, and the pitch, and the roll, which all work toward creating a big brake to stop that yawing just when you need to.

 

Not sure if that's more confusing or less... Should lead to some fun discussion, though! :smile:

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  • Baller

@Than_Bogan So taking angle, casting wide and getting early doesn't require a fin ON A TRICK SKI. I'd argue it does require a fin on a slalom ski as they are designed. Never tried that but someone should and take video.

 

I haven't thought about it much before now but isn't it true that the fin, at least partially, works to balance the much larger surface area of the front of the ski with the much smaller surface area near the tail? Said another way the right size fin on a slalom ski with a skier in the correct position might allow the ski to slide completely sideways down the lake, not that you'd want to do that. That the fin is larger than this overbalances the front of the ski resulting in it wanting to turn down coarse as you suggest.

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  • Baller

So thinkn that Thans explanation looks like this from above. A straight path to the ball (impossible) gets us to the ball sooner. Denali is getting closer to that optimal ski path working with Yaw?. I noticed how flat the ski stays off the second wake as well = speed to the ball. Course I may be off on both counts. What I'm not totally understanding is how that speed gets scrubbed seemingly at the last second. Distance from ball? Quicker to roll to high edge at the last minute? Just works with that much speed? Magic??

kj50w8oki7jc.jpeg

 

 

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