Law passed in Wisconsin eliminating need for spotter

[swc5150]

@skiinxs I am jealous. Lol I'm averaging an oil change every 5 hours:(

[Jetsetr]

@jhughes @swc5150 @Jboss I fly the boss up to Minaqua all the time during the summer, usually turn and burn but could stay and get a tug or two if able...plenty of room to bring my own gear.

[Jboss]

@Jetsetr @jhughes @swc5150 That sounds great to me. Let's try to set something up once we're a little closer to the water being in liquid form. ;-)

[Keith_Menard]

I still think this is asinine. Someone gets a rope around the arm or worse and you are jumping off your boat to jump in. I don't even like that MA doesn't require a flag when the skier falls.

[wtstapel]

I compiled the data for this law when it was under legislative discussion back in 2016 and 2017. When I compiled the data there were 17 states that allowed mirror usage. Over the 5 year period between 2011 and 2015 there were 3.8 accidents involving a towed water-sports per 100,000 registered boats in the average year in those 17 states (that's a mouthful). In the remaining states there were 6.3.

I'd be willing to share any data should others make any headway on this in other states.

 

@"Keith Menard" In my opinion this was about the law. Its up to the user to decide what level of risk they want to entertain. The previous law did not dictate that my spotter be able to assist in any accident response, just that they be competent to spot. I'd argue if you really want to address safety in Wisconsin, and believe that laws are the only way to improve it, then you'd look at PFDs and the lack of requirements.

[Jboss]

@wtstapel This is really interesting. Thank you for sharing.

[ShererSkier]

@Jboss @jhughes @Jetsetr @swc5150 if you guys are going to set up some time to ski this summer can you let me know? I live in Arbor Vitae and ski at my parents in Minocqua on a portable course with my bro @PacMan

 

I think if anyone is going to ski at their highest level with a risk of injury they should have a spotter or another boat with people ready to go in and help. As said earlier, the first time I skied without a spotter I had a terrible OTF so now if I ski without one, I don’t ski at my max. I’d be a hard thing to deal with an unconscious or disabled person and drag said person into a boat by oneself. Especially if they weight a lot more than you. I also would hope people never do this on big waterways. I imagine lake Minocqua (by where I live) has that prohibited because that lake is rediculously busy in summer.

[wtstapel]

I cant confirm because I have not checked each, but I would guess that only Lake Geneva down in the SE part of the state has or will immediately implement a spotter requirement. They were the most active group opposing the law in the lead up to passage.

[tjs1295]

I followed this law closely, and took full advantage of it last Summer. I agree with some people about the possible risks, but what sport doesn't have risks involved? It seems like having a spotter is what we do because we always did it. I see others brought up another northern WI activity, snowmobiling. I bet more people die in WI snowmobile accidents in one year than die from towed water sports in all states combined.

 

Maybe the question should be "what other activities should we require a spotter/buddy to be present for?" Downhill skiing, snowboarding, hunting, fishing, skateboarding, hiking, snowmobiling, etc. All pretty risky activities (yes, even fishing when the weather goes bad). We ski early, and then cruise (or sit on the pier) when everyone else is tubing.

 

Also, the WI definition of a spotter was very vague. My 4-6 year old nieces and nephews were legal spotters, but I don't think they would have been able to drag my unconscious body out of the water. So, do we beef up the spotter requirement as well? I'd also understand it being a problem more if WI was the first state to do it. We're far from it.

[Jboss]

@ShererSkier Sounds good. Let's all stay in contact throughout the Summer. Could be some good ski times in the making.

[tjs1295]

Here are a few numbers about snowmobiling deaths in WI. 19 for the 2017/2018 season. 5 in ONE weekend back in February 2019 (11 as of 2/21/19). My sibling is an ER physician in the Minocqua, Eagle River, St Germain area. He says the water sports injuries are nowhere close to the snowmobile injuries/deaths. Maybe that activity is the one that needs a spotter, or speed controls on the machines? I'm not trying to rip on snowmobiles, just trying to show that one activity (sometimes literally on the same lakes) results in much more physical injuries/deaths than the other.

[klindy]

My experience in northern WI on a snowmobile was simply following the taillight in the snow cloud flying down the groomed trails as fast as possible. When one guy ended up in the woods, the rest of the line followed him right into the tree next too the one he hit!

 

And don't even think about trying to catch up if your sled didn't start on the first pull or two. Your goggles would frost over and make it impossible to see.

 

A couple years the group brought a couple extra sleds to account for the damage.

 

[Jboss]

@klindy Yikes. If you gave up snowmobiling, I can understand why. Those are some crazy conditions. I'm well over 10,000 miles on a snowmobile in the Wisconsin Northwoods (almost 2,000 miles in the last 10 weeks) and haven't experienced what you describe. With that said, it's a risky sport for sure. My wife and I got out of it while raising our son and are now back into it since he fledged the nest. We ride during the daytime hours before most of the hot dogs and drunks hit the trails. This approach reduces risk significantly.

[75Tique]

In NC, you dont need a spotter, just a mirror, but on our small lake, governed by an HOA, you do. You guys all know this, but people not in the know think it should be no problem finding lots of people who want to go skiing, but we all know that's not the case, especially early mornings or weekday evenings. Have always had problems tracking down a spotter. Tried to modify the rules on our lake. First gave thought to skiers and boarders dont need spotters. Tubers, because they are for the most part idiots who just went out and bought their first boat last thursday did need one. We decided not to go with version. We then tried a version of no spotter needed for any sport week day nights or early weekend mornings. We have 2 levels of government, a lake and dam committee and an HOA board. I first had to fight it through the committee. Despite objections, mostly from people who know nothing about boating, they cleared the recommendation to the board. Vote was delayed but lots of concern, questions, objections. My rationale, experience skiers dont need an observer on an empty lake. Also, most of the "observers" in the yahoo's boats arent payng any attention anyway. However, I dropped the quest because no matter how you spin it, just because a few serious skiers and I can handle it, doesnt mean its OK for the general public. Cant really have special rules for us "special" people. So I have come to accept the inconvenience.

[tjs1295]

No doubt it's a fun sport. I ride/rent one every once in a while when friends come up to visit, and they want to go. We stick to daytime hours as well. It's crazy how fast even the basic rental sled will go! I can see how they outrun their headlights at night.

[UWSkier]

Sledding: Would be at least 50% safer if the culture wasn't to hop from bar to bar. I've put tens of thousands of miles on sleds with only one accident that resulted in injury. Crazy bit is we weren't going fast or pushing it at all when that happened. Visibility went to zero and bang. We always adhered to a strict zero tolerance drinking policy when riding.

 

Back to the OT, my sister is an ER doc in Dane County. Worst watersports accidents she remembers are from PWC crashes or people pulling inflatables and whipping them into stationary objects or getting ropes crossed. That and the occasional blown ACL on a wakeboarder.

 

On certain lakes, spotters can be instrumental for helping to monitor for other boat traffic. That's the biggest benefit for them IMO. Given we mostly ski when there isn't other boat traffic, that use case doesn't really apply much.

 

On the Northern WI thing. I'll probably be up there a few weeks this summer! If there's a get-together happening, please keep me in the loop. Would love to meet you guys if it overlaps with my time back home.

[Jboss]

@UWSkier Adding you to the list. So far, we have you, @ShererSkier , @jhughes , @Jetsetr , and @swc5150

 

What lake are you on?

[igkya]

Defining a competent spotter is the key. I remember an article many years ago where a skier was pulled over for just having a driver and his dog. He was fined, fought it and won due to the vagueness of the law and proving that he trained his dog to bark when he fell skiing.

 

Also, as most of us here are slalom skiers, we're likely to be skiing at times when there's much less boat traffic, thus significantly reducing the risk of someone else posing a threat to us.

[UWSkier]

@Jboss I live in Arizona now but grew up on Lake Lucerne outside of Crandon.

[Keith_Menard]

@wtstapel Normally I would agree with you...I think helmet and seat belt laws prevent natural selection...but kids shouldn't be responsible for their parents poor choices. Also, when is it ok to leave your boat unattended? That is what you would have to do if you fished your friend out of the lake.

 

I am not trying to sound too sanctimonious here...I have certainly skied sans spotter, but also knew it was pretty dumb.

[tjs1295]

Jboss, you can add me to your northern Wisconsin list if you like. Depending on the week I'm either in Merrill or Eagle River. Boat is only in Eagle River. I'm in Eagle River right now. Here's the tables on the deck from yesterday. Probably won't be skiing this week.

 

[Jboss]

@tjs1295 Tim - I added you to the list. Here is a pic of my grill that I took last weekend. I think you're right. No skiing this week. LOL

 

[tjs1295]

Awesome picture!!! With the rain we're going to get the next few days we might be able to ski on top of the ice.

[swc5150]

Adding @epnault to the group, another yoop/Spread Eagle native.

 

 

[Jboss]

@swc5150 @epnault ...added to the sticky note. ;-)

 

[Diben44]

@Jboss Only been on a slalom ski for a year, started out on a mid 80's HO turbo competition, jut picked up a 2018 Senate about a month ago, currently living in Wausau but am up in Minocqua most weekends in the summer so if you'd like, you can add me to the list.

[Jboss]

@Diben44 Done!

[PacMan]

@jboss I'm in for sure

 

Since were showing off pics

 

 

I think it will be a while before I can get my boat out of that snowbank.

 

[ShererSkier]

@Jboss thanks. Looking forward to it!

Maybe we should start a new thread for Northen WI ski weekend haha. I’ll keep a sticky note too just in case.

[Jboss]

@ShererSkier Good idea. Let's get the thread going when we get a little closer to Summer

 

@PacMan There's a boat under all that snow???

[ShererSkier]

@Jboss sounds good!

 

Haha yeah that snowy pic is a 86 Mastercraft. It’s my brother @PacMan and our family boat. Unfortunately had to store it there this winter. We’re going to have to borrow a tractor to move that snow!

[epnault]

@swc5150 and @Jboss - we need to align in the northerwoods! I have been tempted to haul my insta-slalom to my parents chain but it isn't worth it for just me. Spread Eagle, WI (always smile when I say this city) is where my parents are and my lake place is in Balsam Lake, WI.

[oldjeep]

@PacMan - what did that boat ever do to you?

[Jboss]

@epnault Sounds good to me!

 

[swc5150]

@epnault you can drop my Insta in front of my house whenever you like. Maybe I'll even be there for once!

[PacMan]

@oldjeep it let itself get taken out of the water.