Nate Smith listed on “U.S. Center for SafeSport” database for Allegations of Misconduct

[Wish]

Hmmmmm ? I'd think information would come to SafeSport via an accuser, not an investigator fishing on a public sports forum. Is this a common practice of SafeSport @Pgraf?

[jcamp]

@wish sometimes victims are reluctant to come forward and/or not really sure how to do so. I think when there is enough credibility behind initial charges investigators should be proactive in their efforts to discover the true scale of any potential misconduct.

[Wish]

@jcamp would like to here from @Pgraf on this. I'm not saying one way or the other if it's good or bad practice but it seems to me that it either is or is not a practice for SafeSport fish for information on public forums. If not, I'd say @Pgraf has crossed a line. If it is a common practice, then it can be judged and discussed openly on this forum.

[skidawg]

I would think there isn't a line to cross when searching for information whether to prove or disprove someone's guilt or innocence!

[Wish]

I'd add that since there is Zero detail of what the investigation entails, how can one ask for "pertinent observations" or "experience".??

[skidawg]

insert panda here! Apparently if someone has had negative experience where they feel wronged- they could step forward to give details to safe sport where they don't have to be publicly shamed by the entire skiing community who looks up to an athlete for his ability and not moral character ( hypothetically of course)

[Wish]

If SafeSport condones open ended vague questions like this on public forums so be it. Judge the marits of it then.

[jcamp]

@wish pgraf 1) doesn't owe you anything, and 2) probably has more important work to do than getting into online discussions with someone who is unable to comprehend the meaning of "pertinent observations" or "experience." The fact that you don't know what they mean PROBABLY means you aren't a victim in this case and you can just move on and let the professionals do their jobs.

 

Is this really the hill you want to die on?

[Stevie Boy]

Personally I think @Pgraf is out of order, his post should be deleted, different if somebody had been found guilty and they want to make sure they have covered all bases.

I do not think this forum is the place to make a appeal of this nature, the forum is for discussion not for official use, sorry but my opinion is that it is WRONG !

[jcamp]

Well @Stevie Boy I gotta say that arguing that the sanctity of DFT measurements or the latest ZO settings is more important that stopping abuse in the sport is an odd argument, but I guess everyone has the right to an opinion.

 

Maybe things would have been different for a lot of young women if investigators had asked more questions about Larry Nassar 20 years ago.

[jayski]

I agree it's terrible that a body of authority posted a way to be contacted on public forum...I mean really the nerve of someone trying to get all the information they can from all the sources they can before rendering any decisions...

[Booze]

Isn't it common practice for Law Enforcement to broadcast a 'if anyone has info regarding this crime, contact the fill in the blank Police Dept) ?

 

[Stevie Boy]

@jcamp like I said this is not the place for such a post by @Pgaf it could be mis construded that there is guilt already, by all means ask the question but I do not see this forum as the appropiate place to do that, Larry Nassar was tewnty years ago, it is now 2019, many of us are much more aware of the issues and many young ladies are more aware and out spoken than before about these issues you only have to look at the Me Too issuee, we cannot take a back seat ,but I do believe you have to follow procedures and protect everybody involved until guilt has been proved

What you have to remember is that DFT, fin fiddling etc idoes not affect anybody, in the way that this particular issue does, the issue of abuse is very serious indeed.

Like I said this forum is not the platform or arena for officials to appeal for information, to do so is to imply guilt, in my opinion @Pgaf has over stepped the mark and possibly breached the rules.

[AdamCord]

@Stevie Boy how else would an investigator reach out to the waterski community for information? Send an email to the USAWS mailing list?

[ScottScott]

@pgraf 's comment wasn't even directed specifically at the situation that is being speculated about in this thread. I see this as a general comment, which offers contact information, that if there is any "specific, pertinent observations or experience" (in contrast to speculation, rumor, and curiosity) to contact him. I don't think I see an issue with that.

[ski6jones]

To @ScottScott point maybe a PSA post made to the forum in general, not under this thread, would satisfy. That it was posted in this thread implies. Just a thought.

[Stevie Boy]

@AdamCord I understand yours and other peoples distain, as this issue has been hilighted on this forum, I would like to think that any parent or coach that was aware of any young person, who they know has had contact with a accused person, would have had a convesation to ascertain if there was any reason for concern.

We are all resposible to safeguard the young people in our sport, but I do know if I had a child that had been coached by somebody under investigation, I would of already had that conversation.

[gjohnson]

Nobody believes the victims. It's an attitude that helps perpetuate abuse cycles. Protect the accused. That's how Nassar got away with abusing young girls for decades. In 2014, Michigan State University cleared him of any wrong doing. Parents, Coaches, and Police officers failed to do the right thing even as the reports kept happening. It wasn't until 2016 after a journalist wrote an investigative newspaper article shedding light Nassar, that he was stopped.

[Stevie Boy]

@ski6jones has got where I am coming from, to post the comment on this particular thread is Wrong.

To make people aware that they can contact him if they have issues and publish his contact details would be a good thing, in a matter of fact @Horton should run it as a Banner on the website (but it is his website).

A general appeal to the forum for anybody who has issues to contact him is fine, but within this thread when a particular individual is named, is not the place as far as I am concerned.

Sorry but that is how I see it.

[swc5150]

@Booze yes, expect for the police inform the public of the crime that occurred.

 

Give @Stevie Boy a break. @Pgraf 's first post written as such and in this thread, and we're supposed to think it's just a PSA and not about the issue at hand? This entire thread reeks of innuendo of guilt about something, other than the authorities and all sponsors apparently cleared him. Maybe there's a reason some of us are confused??

 

 

 

 

[FLeboeuf]

@Pgraf’s idea, as an investigator, to search for info on BOS is a great idea. He should also search for info on the other site if not already done. But that idea probably comes from the victim or victim’s family because I doubt an investigator that has numerous cases per year on athletes on various sports knew about BOS. Also if he had enough grounds to pursue this investigation and convict someone, he wouldn’t need the public. My guess is he doesn’t have much on Nate and he is simply closing all doors to his investigation. No one should offended by his post, he is doing his job period. I would not delete his post if I was Horton. I wouldn’t want to obstruct an investigation.

[Jordan]

He posted on the Wareskirag instagram also...Seems reasonable to me.

[wilecoyote]

@FLeboeuf wait what? Other site?..

[Horton]

I do not know Paul Graf. I have never communicated with him. I have no knowledge of anything about him except that he appears to work for SafeSport. That agency was created by congress and is under the oversight of the USOC. These are serious people.

 

I too was extremely surprised that he posted here as well on an Instagram feed.

 

If there are in fact victims then the details of the allegations must be treated as completely confidential. Those of you who cannot get your heads around that need to imagine if a family member was a victim – would you want the investigation to be extremely discreet or public? SafeSport is trying to determine guilt or innocence without any backlash - embarrassment - humiliation on victims.

 

[BraceMaker]

Instagram is probably an excellent place to reach involved parties if they exist ie. if there is traction to the claims the involved parties are all very likely to be active on instagram - it is probably the single best place to follow waterskiing as a sport. Even its video format is essentially perfect for the sport and it can easily emphasize the positive sides of this sport.

 

In re: Nate Smith - it looks like 2 separate camps of people one trying to bring up a story that the other is trying to dismiss. At this point hopefully some definitive reporting on the story the players, and the events can actually be reported on or this thing will keep on festering.

 

 

[Scaramanga]

@stevieboy -- maybe the parents did and maybe they found something out and up until this point they didn’t know who or where to turn. And also... people aren’t immediately under investigation unless there is strong evidence that alludes to misconduct. This investigation isn’t the first step --It’s the last.

[Horton]

@BraceMaker Sooner or later the allegations will be dismissed or there will be more sanctions. That is black and white.

 

As far as reporting goes - I would not count on it. As the primary media in the sport I am 100% committed to protecting victims / accusers.

 

Unless there are some truly extraordinary revelations I would expect the details to never be known to anyone who is not directly involved. This is true mostly because SafeSport does not release any of the details of the investigations. So even if I wanted to report on this I could not.

[BraceMaker]

@Horton agreed that is what we will likely see. Has all the hallmarks of accusations that are not being crusaded by the victims but rather by motivated 3rd parties.

 

But that's why it will fester.

 

 

[Than_Bogan]

Well THAT got weird while I was ignoring the thread. Broadbased information gathering is (of course!) the standard in any situation that SafeSport would be interested in. It would be an enormous dereliction of duty to NOT do so.

[The_MS]

Move along people, there is nothing to see here. Just relax and let the powers at be do their thing. You will never get to know the details that you are searching for, that’s not how it works. Just let the victims recover and attempt to move on.

[EFW]

Guilty until proven innocent. Drag somebody's name through the mud and you don't even know what the deal is whether he did or didn't. But let's just throw this innuendo out there and let everybody speculate. Then we have people that commit suicide but everything's got to be top secret - can't talk about it - hush-hush. But here a guys reputation now is effectively ruined but that's cool.

I personally know someone who was ruined by the same type of accusations and kangaroo court process. I'm not saying this guy did or didn't do anything (Nate Smith I mean) but the person I know was basically tried in the media never went to court and his career was ruined. Yes eventually the truth came out that it was all a lie but because it had been allowed to be put out in the press they made shambles of this man's life that I'm talking about. He was never able to return to the profession that he loved. Guess what happened to the minor the made the false accusations?

Nothing! This countries going in the wrong direction.

[gjohnson]

@EFW are you suggesting we go back to the days where everyone stays silent and protects predators? You are misinformed on abuse, it's cycle, how people continue abusing, and how rare it is that accusations are false. SafeSport is a result of many abuses and failures of people to step in and believe children, the victims. Most victims say nothing, ever. It's unfortunate what happened to your friend, but that's an unusual case. SafeSport exists because people have protected predators for years. As I noted earlier, nobody cares about the victims.

[Horton]

I have moved this thread into a section of the Forum where only known members of USA water ski or an affiliated Federation can comment. I am also considering locking the thread completely and leaving it that way until there are some new revelations.

 

If anybody has issues with this please contact me privately

[Horton]

Today the Sanction changed from "Interim Measure - Restriction" to "Interim Measure - Suspension"

 

 

[Horton]

I have reopened this thread. Please read the below repost before you post

 

Rules regarding the Nate Smith SafeSport sanctions

 

Any details (substantiated or not) will not be tolerated unless those details were revealed by official channels.

 

None of this is funny. Any post made in poor taste will be removed.

 

As owner and administrator of this website, I will not apologize or explain myself if I delete posts or ban users. I have every intention of maintaining a professional level of decorum on this subject.

 

For a in depth understanding of how SafeSport operates I highly recommend this article from SwimSwam.com

 

https://swimswam.com/digging-in-on-safesports-investigative-process-ban-terminology/

[BraceMaker]

So what level of restriction does this provide on his participation in skiing? All USA waterski sanctioned events?

[Horton]

@BraceMaker

 

Interim measure - suspension

The Covered Individual (Responding Party) is prohibited from participating in any capacity in any activity or competition authorized by, organized by, or under the auspices of the United States Olympic Committee, the national governing bodies recognized by the USOC, and/or a Local Affiliated Organization of a national governing body recognized by the USOC pending final resolution of the matter.

 

[BraceMaker]

Right so he's doing a Nautiques Swervingweekend in May -

 

"Support for Nautique Swervin’ Weekends is provided by HO Skis, USA Waterski and the AWSA. Skis, vests, gloves, ropes, handles and much more are available to use from HO ensuring everyone can get out on the water and have fun. Not only will HO be providing any gear you’d like to try, but they’re also picking up the bill for your USA Water Ski membership for the day as well."

 

So this in theory means that the swervin weekends are under the auspices of a recognized body.

[Horton]

@BraceMaker

 

Smith's change in status happened today so you need to let the all involved parties work out what is and is not allowed.

[Horton]

Smith is now on the SUSPENDED MEMBER LIST

 

http://www.usawaterski.org/graphics/downloads/USAWSWSSuspendedMembers.pdf

[gregy]

Temporary? Wonder if the investigation is final or could this still lead to a permanent band?

[skidawg]

Looks like smoke=fire!

[Ilivetoski]

@gregy all of the other names have a length of the ban, my guess is they are still deciding how long the ban should be

[sunvalleylaw]

This whole thing is a bummer. I hope good investigation and process takes place and all concerned get any assistance and justice that they need.

[Horton]

@gregy & @Live2ski just to be clear, safesport is conducting the investigation and administrating the sanctions. The nomenclature used on the USA water ski pdf is potentially a little bit misleading. The real status is Interim measure - suspension. If you read through the swim article link above and the safesport text quoted above you'll find that what this basically means is the investigation is not yet complete and or arbitration has been requested. Until all of it is complete Smith is forbidden from participating in any USA water ski or US Olympic related activities.

 

The safesport nomenclature is painfully vague and at the same time clear (somehow)

[Than_Bogan]

@Horton I'd describe it this way: Their language is precise, because it tells you exactly what it means. But it feels vague because its meaning is so narrow and you want to know so much more.

[LoopSki]

sorry to thread jack,but how is it that Dr. JM is not on the USAWS list.. I know not a safesport violation. But others on that list arent as well.

[BraceMaker]

Thought he had a 6 year ban back in... 05 06?

 

So probably fell off the list 2012

[Horton]

Gentleman, I very much do not want this thread to squirrel off onto some other subject. The subject at hand is inflammatory enough. If you want to talk about Dr Jim please start another thread.

[BraceMaker]

Looks like whitney filling in for swerving weekend.