Presenting - WhisperFin #1

[FLeboeuf]

@mbabiash, can you tell how different it is from the cg fin?

[mbabiash]

@FLeboeuf

I waited til after today’s set on the fin to answer your question.

After final tuning by @SkiJay, the ski feels phenomenal.

Let me start by saying the ski felt great after the first set and was completely skiable but jay wanted to dial it in Perfectly for me.

My first comment regarding the whisper fin compared to the CG would be drag.

In the glide it’s noticeable that the CG fin has a ton of drag. Not so with the whisper fin. Little effort is required to get wide and its easy to not load the boat and zero off working against you. Same with acceleration. This thing is incredibly fast.

In the turns, I feel like the tail has the perfect amount of smear and nothing radical happens at the finish. Tip stays down through the entire turn just like CG but creates a smoother turn and doesn’t hook up hard at the finish.

 

CG tracks like no other but I feel like it’s too much for me. Whisper continues to get wide and keep speed going outbound with no effort.

Finally. You’d think that it wouldn’t have the hold being that it’s a lot smaller than the traditional fin but trust me, it’s very stable and I never even came close to blowing the tail

 

[FLeboeuf]

@mbabiash Thanks. I want to give that fin a try. I wonder also how it would work with the s-wing. Have you tried that?

[chris55]

@mbabiash when I read your comment, it makes me think that when crossing the wakes you must not hold as strong as a regular fin meaning it should be less tirering since the ski accelerat faster and quicker. Am I correct ?

[Ed_Johnson]

@mbabiash ....Great report, I think you just sold some fins for Jay...In fact I just ordered mine for my NRG.

 

[Ryota]

I’m so excited to read all the reviews of Whisperfin( compared to CG fin) from now on!

[mbabiash]

@Ed_Johnson I think it will be a great edition to any ski but for those deep riding skis like the NRG, I think it will make those come alive with new speed and less radical turns.

I can even see those die hard Nano one guys benefiting greatly from it. More speed on a ski that’s known for having to work to get across course.

[rfa]

@mbabiash, recovering from knee surgery, so this is hoping the knee understands I'm serious about skiing again and cooperates...haha. I have a CG fin yet to mount on a 2018 EVO. I suspect we ski at similar levels, so I am particularly curious about your experience.

You mentioned the CG has a"ton of drag" (a negative?) and "tracks like no other" (a positive?). Is the drag relative to the original D3 fin or to the Whisperfin? On the tracking, what do you mean or feel is "too much" for you? Thank you.

[Ed_Johnson]

@rfa...The CG Fin has worked great on my NRG. Actually I tried it on a new Vapor, EVO, and the NRG. As long as I used a small wing at 5 degrees, there was no drag from the CG Fin. At anything greater than 5 degrees there was Drag. With differential fin tuning, the NRG with the CG Fin turned on a dime both sides. It also accelerated better and tracked better. Make no mistake, the CG Fin is far superior than the stock fin on all the above mentioned skis. If the Whisper Fin does better than this, I will be happier than a Hog in Sh*t.

 

I actually had to go out and do a Music Gig this weekend to pay for the darn thing. If my Wife saw I paid $300 dollars out of our retired budget for a Fin, I would be divorced !!!!

 

 

[rfa]

@Ed_Johnson, thank you.

Where do I go for music lessons? Ha

[mbabiash]

Thanks @Ed_Johnson

I totally agree with your description. I don’t pretend to know anything about how these fins work. I just go off of feel. And you will be happier with the WhisperFin. Even faster than the CG at 5 degrees but you can leave your wing at stock angle on the whisper.

And much more forgiving in the turns!

[Ed_Johnson]

@mbabiash ...Thanks for all your info, very helpful. Could you please tell me what size wing you used and at how many degrees. Looking forward to it. Love all that Jay has done for our sport !!!

 

 

[C5Quest]

Has anyone asked the most important question..... which fin is faster, the blue or the bronze? Need to put my order in so hurry up with answers lol

[mbabiash]

@Ed_Johnson 7 degrees.

I can give you specific numbers for 68 EVO if you want when you get it.

 

[mbabiash]

@C5Quest

Definitely blue.

[mbabiash]

Sorry. Standard d3wing that came with the EVO.

Stock 7 degrees.

[Ed_Johnson]

Thanks Matt...It would be great to know what numbers you originally set it up with and what Jay set you up with that made it better. When I originally skied the EVO and NRG, I found them to perform with equally similar numbers. The EVO was faster cross course than he NRG. I just could not get it to sustain cross course angle at 35. This was my fault and not the ski, since if I could have brought my COM as far forward as Nate does, everything would have been fine. The NRG was just easier to accomplish this, but not nearlly as fast. The CG Fin made up for the difference, so I was quite happy with that improvement.

 

Your the only Baller so far to be skiing on the Whisper Fin, so forgive us for trying to pick your brain. It is just that it seems to be that there are no reference numbers out there to compare it with.

 

 

[ozski]

With the CG fin drag is nothing more than a state of tune, mine is wicked fast side to side by comparison to a stock KD fin. It took a week of tinkering to find the right balance between feeling good at -32 and then doing its job at 38/39 The asymmetrical properties are not to be underestimated either so its going to be interesting to see how the two very different products compare.

[skibug]

@SkiJay installed my WhisperFin last Wednesday. I have 8 sets on it, probably 4 to 5 tweaks between those sets. SkiJay was in the boat for 6 of the sets listening to my feedback and providing the suggested tweaks. All I can say is it made the Goode XTR better. It finished the turn easier, kept the tip down, and accelerated off the ball quicker. It also made my on-side (the more problematic of my turns) more fluid, keeping the ski moving under the rope without any additional tip pressure, so it never stalled at the end of the turn. The off-side has always been automatic with this ski; but, the down side of that is/was a propensity to get too much tip pressure at the finish of the turn. This fin seems to relieve that pressure created at the very finish of the turn, even if you create your own issues through poor body position (or lack of technique). The on-side and off-side became more symmetrical and overall it seemed like less work to get side to side.

[Rich]

@skibug Please share your #s on the XTR. I ride an XTR and looking forward to the fin blade arrival. Having some #s to start will be helpful Thanks!

 

[C5Quest]

What kind of tweaks? Strickly fin or any binding movements?

 

[skibug]

I am on a 67" and I ski RFF. I take all of my measurements with Starret dial calipers. I mention this because it effects the dimension you get for DFT as @SkiJay and I found out. He had digital calipers (not sure what brand) and the thickness of the jaws laid on the bottom of the ski when taking the DFT measurement hit at different spots, hence the discrepancy. There was a .020 difference between mine and his. I think it may also have to do with the DFT being so far away from the tail. All that said, the numbers will get you close enough to tune.

 

I have two different sets of numbers. The first set of numbers is where we landed after 7 sets on the WhisperFin (WF) after 4 or 5 tweaks. There was only one binding tweak and it was to get closer to stock as I was 29.375" and now I am at 29.3125" (Stock is 29.0625"). The second set of numbers actually required a small modification to the WF exclusively because of the ski being a Goode. Apparently they are the only skis with a fin slot that is somewhat smaller than other brands. It was a simple and mundane fix. Will post the before and after pics for show and tell. The mod allowed us to get the WF closer to the tail for set #8.

 

All sets were were taken with the Goode LARGE wing, 7 degrees at SkiJay's suggestion. He said if you have to use the small wing, go 9 degrees.

 

This 1st set of numbers were very close and for a skier with better, more quiet, technique they should be a good starting point. So much so that if I hadn't of rode the 2nd set of numbers I would have tuned around these:

 

L=5.746(tips)

D=2.534

DFT=1.79(flat/head)

 

If you have a tendency to move around a bit more this second set of numbers may be where you want to start. I am not exactly sure why they worked better for me, they just did. Pulling the fin back really evened out the turn on each side. I would say that these numbers gave me a little more positive feedback to my input and didn't feel as "sensitive" to my extra movements. The trade off was it "felt" like a little more work; but, I am OK with that if I can get both sides to feel as equal as possible.

 

L=5.745(tips)

D=2.530

DFT=1.74(flat/head)

 

And for the mods to be able to pull the WF this far back, see pics. You have to trim off the little nub.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[C5Quest]

I may go down to Orlando at end of month. Is there a way to hook up with @Skijay to pic his brain on set up? I’ve seen him a few times while skiing with Rini.

[JAS]

For the guys that have actually used the fin. When referring to change in drag/work, are we talking about 2%, 5%, 20% or what? What speed and line length? Any video yet? Thanks!

[skibug]

@JAS might be hard to gauge as these were my first 8 sets of the season. Rather than putting a percentage on it, I would rather explain it in words.

 

I think the "feeling" of less work can be directly correlated to the ski moving through the turn, while continuing to create angle, with less tip pressure, and less tendency to stall at the finish. This translates to more consistent speed through the apex of the turn, earlier acceleration off the ball, and angle into the 1st wake. So, instead of having to "horse" the ski to get going out of the ball, it already is, you just need to be ready to go.

[Not_The_Pug]

Anyone tried the Whisper Fin on a Goode Revolution? This ski already feels faster in the turn than my Rev 6.

[ALPJr]

10k+ views in under a month. I predict this to be one of the most viewed BOS threads ever.

[SkiJay]

@Krlee, I plugged a WhisperFin into an elite skier’s Revolution two days ago. We only had one rushed set so didn’t nail down a final setup. But we bracketed the sweet spot (too much smear then not enough) we’ll within the range of normal numbers, so no question it will work.

[SkiJay]

I’d like to comment on the great report by @skibug above. He is a very powerful dynamic skier. And what we were looking for in moving the fin that far back was an elevated resistance to tip engagement. Making it harder to yaw tip into the water made tip engagement more consistent when scrambling (bludgeoning his way ;)) through his harder passes. I’d think most XTR skiers would find his final setup a little too much effort, and his fist setup more responsive. But this was a great demonstration of the available range of tuning. Thanks @skibug

[blakeyates]

I’ve recently ordered my WhisperFin. My plan is to begin my season on the stock fin at current set-up, then get some sets under my belt, and then make the change to this fin in order to get a better feel for “before and after.”

[skibug]

To clarify...

Powerful=making up for lack of technique with strength (not optimum or recommended)

Dynamic=a nice way to say my technique would benefit if I had a more "quiet" upper body

Bludgeoning=very accurate!! And, not conducive to physical health.

[dvskier]

Call it what you will but skiing gets it done. I saw him run his first 38 off pass at Mystic Waters and he is a beast behind the boat !

[C5Quest]

Any more experience with the fin? Looking forward to more reviews

[kc]

I had the opportunity to ski a set, (six passes), on one of @SkiJay fins last Sunday morning at Matt Rini‘s.@SkiJay set the fin up on my 67” NRG, then rode in the boat for my set. His instructions to me as I stepped off the platform were to “just ski”. My impression was that things are just smoother and easier with this fin. It was easy to “just ski” without thinking about something being different. The thing I noticed most was an improvement in tip engagement in the turns. There were a couple times where I “muffed” a turn, but I was comfortably back into things by the time I was behind the boat.

 

This was only my 13th set since last fall, and I stayed at -32, (my in-season opener), the entire set. The worst part was watching @SkiJay remove the fin from my ski afterwards. I had already placed my order for my Whisper fin before having the opportunity to try one. I can’t wait to receive it. @SkiJay provided me numbers to start, basically how I rode it that one set with minor modifications.

[C5Quest]

I’m headed down to Rini’s this week sometime. Haven’t skied since October so this is just preseason tuning. I ordered a fin but will prob just wait until Jay can hand it to me in person next month when I go down again. I wish I could say I just stayed at -32. I’ve tasted -32 once or twice but just need to clean up my -22s and making consistent-28s as a season goal. Look forward to more reports and actually trying the fin once I knock the cobwebs off and the season gets going.

[Skirvind]

I'm in Orlando this week skiing and taking a few demo sets on the Whisper fin.

 

Awesome, is the word that sums up my experience with it!

 

Setup - 2019 Senate Pro 69 with Denali CG fin LFF.

 

I agree with the experience @skibug described. My ski has never felt so good on the water.

 

CG or Whisper ...

 

Whisper all the way going forward! It made my ski feel free and light on the water, solid and tracked wonderfully. Acceleration was amazing along with an ability to make space at the buoy.

 

CG - was an improvement over my stock fin but I sold it today and saved it from life as a wall hanger.

 

Big thanks to Jay for creating an inovative fin that will change the sport.

 

 

 

[Dacon62]

@Skirvind for reference what line length and speeds did you ski with these fins?

[Deanoski]

@skirvind what depth are you running

[Skirvind]

34 into 32off 12 to 15 mph winds. Would have loved to have clam water. Hope to see some tomorrow but it’s not looking good

[C5Quest]

I’m down in Orlando this week as well. Today was tough. At least 20-25mph winds and chop. Was first set today since last October. Got my teeth rattled out a couple times but was good just to get some swerves. Was hoping to try the fin this week but I’ll just wait until delivery. At this point just looking to knock off the dust and build muscle memory. Just ran some -15s. Really looking forward to getting the season underway and jumping on the whisper fin.

[SkiJay]

 

Here is a batch of ceramic coated fins baking in the oven last week. All that's left is laser etching and getting them shipped to Florida for distribution. All the waiting has been torture. Sometimes I think it would have been faster to make them all by hand :|

 

[Swerve200]

Hi @SkiJay, any idea of positive buoy count using the Whisper Fin? Everyone on the thread talks about "feel", but my goal is to get through 38 when I'm now only getting to 3 @ 38 consistently. What impact has it had on your skiing?

[SkiJay]

@Swerve200, I don't chase balls personally. I test every day while running 28s and 32s. What I've noticed personally is these passes got easier quickly and technique improvements I've been working on forever have suddenly fallen into place since settling in with a production WhisperFin.

 

Perhaps Bruce Dodd's experience is more in line with what you're asking. He ran within a ball of his lifetime PB his fist set on the fin, then set a national Men's 6 record of 1@41 on it within a couple of months.

 

A couple of weeks ago a demo skier who'd been struggling through -38 ran 4@39 at 36 mph his second day on it.

 

No guarantees on how it will affect your skiing, but the vast majority of demos have been positive so far.

[Ed_Johnson]

Thanks for the info....I can only hope mine is hanging in that batch !!!

 

 

[SkiJay]

The first one in the second row has your name on it, @Ed_Johnson :)

[Ed_Johnson]

@SkiJay .....Thanks, can't wait to try it....Please send some numbers with it for a 68" NRG !!!

[C5Quest]

That must mean mine is in the third row

 

[paul413ski]

Cannot wait to try this fin

[skinut]

@skijay have you pre-sold all of your inventory or do you still have fins available?

 

[SkiJay]

The first batch is sold out, but the second batch is only a couple of weeks behind. They'll be shipping in the order that preorders are received.

 

The first batch is being etched right now and should be on their way to Florida for distribution tomorrow or Thursday.