If Mapple had been born 30 years later, would he be kicking Nate’s ass?

[Horton]

if Mapple had been born 30 years later, would he be kicking Nate’s ass, making Nate the modern equivalent of Wade Cox?

 

NOTE: I can not take credit for this poll. the question comes from my text messages this morning.

[jcamp]

Not to take anything away from Nate, but Mapple had that drive, single-mindedness and freakish fitness level that no matter who was skiing against him, he'd figure out a way to beat them.

[Booze]

Yeah, Andy was an incredible talent, athlete, and competitor. But so is Nate, and he has refined a technique and style that is unconventional and very effective at 41/43, to say the least.

Yeah, option #3.

[The_MS]

Put them both on Lake Robin and it’s Mapple all day every day

[Than_Bogan]

@jcamp kinda stole my thunder. But my personal guess is that Nate is considerably more "gifted" -- which would just push Mapple and he'd find a way to catch up because of exactly the things @jcamp mentioned. Thus a toss-up in the end.

[BraceMaker]

Does mapple get the benefits of his 30 years of ski development

[Horton]

@BraceMaker yes.

[lpskier]

This is a very tough call. I think that Nate has better technique than Andy had, but Andy had one hell of a work ethic and a strong drive to succeed. I don’t know anything about Nate’s off water training and so I can’t comment on it. I know that Andy was a beast in the gym and on a bike, so his body was always physically well prepared. He was also at the beginning a strong three eventer and tricked between 4 and 5000 in the 2014 Senior Worlds.

 

Andy also has a deep knowledge of technique and equipment, which would be an edge, but if you take Andy and Nate both at 27 or 28, maybe Nate is on par with Andy.

 

A side note, one of my favorite skiing pictures is from somewhere around 2013. Nate and Andy had both been eliminated at Moomba and together were manning the safety boat.

[skier2788]

Hands down Mapple. The guy skied into 41 at Moomba at the age of 50 or 51. You take 30 years off that and he would be winning everything.

[Hallpass]

Sexy thread title. Draws you in. I was just thinking that in reality, the term "kicking ass" is probably aggressive, regardless who might theoretically come out on top, when talking a 1/4 or 1/2 a ball at such a difficult task as 43 off. Anyway, it certainly would have been fun to watch two of the best go head to head in their primes. Doesn't seem to happen too often in any sport.

 

[6balls]

Nate has more 41's in tourneys than all other skiers combined...think about how many he has in practice to add to that...really freakish. Andy would be right there with him in his physical prime on modern equipment and ZO. Too close to call.

 

Probably some pro's who have skied with both may have a better opinion, but not want to share it.

[chris55]

They would push each other and probably Andy would come on top because his drive was so strong and his understanding of how the ski works etc.....Maybe CP could give some pretty accurate ideas.....

[ozski]

Nate has lifted the bar and with all due respect to AM the data alone tells the story. Nate is anything but big and strong, he's light and fast side to side - faster than anyone and that allows him to do what he does. As good as Andy was he was a different type of skier and that type of skier is less effective today as things stand with bigger HP and modern speed control.

[fu_man]

@Hallpass agreed. At -41 or-43 no one is kicking anyone's ass. 1/2 bouy takes it.

 

 

[The_MS]

@Mapple has 14 Masters titles and 6 worlds.

[swc5150]

Nate is a generational athlete. I don't know that AM has all his titles if he were facing Nate all those years. Tom Brady is a GOAT too, but I don't think he's lifting 5 (edit 6) Lombardi's facing Troy Aikman's 'boys.

[Wish]

Andys passes looked diff in that you could tell the diff between 32 off and 39. No one stood on the shore wondering which length it was. No one ever scratched their head and wondered how he got it done at extreme shortline. No one questioned whether or not Andy did off season training. The nod would go to Nate just because all of those are in play. Efficiency is key.

[ForrestGump]

Andy with a 25-28 yo body and with todays skis, ZO, and boats is getting to 4 at 43.

[MichaelGoodman]

@swc5150 Make that six.

[The_MS]

@Mapple was winning titles against the very best. Cox, Jamie, CP, Willy, Lapoints, Hazelwood and a host of others.

[Ilivetoski]

Nate also has the advantage of 30 years of technique evolution. A lot of stuff that is taught today was not taught 30 years ago

[The_MS]

It’s not about running 41 and into 43. It’s about taking down the field that your up against on that day.

[Stevie Boy]

Mapple & Nate would both unsettle other skiers when they were on site, they know they have to bring their "A" game.

However as stated I think Andy Mapples ability to apply pressure mentally and phisically put it all out there, would just put him in front of Nate.

What a spectacle that would have been, Nate & Mapple at their peak in a Head to Head

[Horton]

@ms did you say Hazelwood? You know we are talkin about slalom? Right?

[The_MS]

Sorry, he was overall and not a threat to @Mapple

Point being that there were some stud skiers that he had to take down at not always Slalom friendly sites that you see skiers at today.

[swc5150]

Very true, but Nate's competition hasn't exactly been soft.

 

I agree with @Wish, I don't think anyone has ever made it look easier than Nate. He's so fluid at all lengths. Maybe that's why some say Am had the grit and determination to round that next ball versus Nate? He just doesn't really appear to have to grit out his passes, visually anyway. Those 2 head to head would've been a sight to behold for sure.

[Wish]

Site conditions is something I had not thought of. Nod for sure goes to Andy if conditions are well below par. Andy competed in horrible conditions with the pro tour in its hay days. Nate has and is mostly used to ideal condition.

[Horton]

@wish I could not disagree with you more. I'm pretty sure Nate has the site record both at Moomba and at the Masters. I don't know that he handles bad conditions better than Andy did but to say that Nate is a smooth water skier is a bit silly.

[markn]

Nate has taken slalom to a new level. He turns faster, creates more speed and angle than anyone. That said, was in the safety boat at the 2004 worlds at Swiss. Pretty strong head tail in the slalom finals. Every skier ran 39 head to get 1 or two at 41 tail. Not Andy. He ran 32, opted up to TAIL 39 and crushed it wanting a head 41 for the win. Unfortunately, as he went to 1 ball @ 41 a huge head wind came down the lake at caught him at 1 ball. To this day, I have never seen a better example of steely nerves, confidence, strategy and execution in slalom. ( and he did it on a new ski as he had broken his primary ski the day before in practice.) Having witnessed that, I give the edge to Mapple.

[Wish]

@horton depends on what you call rough conditions. There's no tour that puts skiers on public waters/rivers in front of crowds like the beer tours did. Those guys delt with rollers, backwash, wind and the like weekend after weekend. That simply does not happen these days. To point out 2 tournaments that have been in existence and skid a ton by both to me is silly. If conditions suck and Andy gets all that experience and is young, he gets the nod in my book cause he had to all the time.

[lpskier]

@david_ski Off topic?

 

@Horton @Wish Who won the stop when someone had the great idea of skiing on Lake Michigan/Navy Pier in Chicago? Whoever that was probably gets the nod for best crap water conditions skier of all time.

[A_B]

Never count out a Hoosier!

[ozski]

Put Nate behind a 2000 196 with PP on a KD CR7 and I would put money on him running a lot of -41's...

[heinz57]

i think if andy "grew up" with zo like nate did; my money would be on andy. current state no one skis with zo better than nate.

[Horton]

you guys do realize Andy was the key member of the original ZO team?

[bishop8950]

Great question.

 

In his early 50s, Mapple could still cruise through 41 at 36mph. If he had he same equipment 25 years earlier what would he have run? Let’s say Andy could run 1@43 at the age of 50ish. How many bouys would Andy add if he were Nate’s age?

[heinz57]

andy was key guy developing it;i know. he personally reflashed my 08 promo boat when zo first came out which was very kind of him to do so. but he didn't come up thru the ranks

skiing with zo like nate did.

[JAS]

Remington or Winchester, you pick. I’m sort of glad they came to our sport at different times. The both have offered so much. Buoy count alone seems to be a soft metric considering how much change in the sport. The record seems to have hit the wall since skiers broke into 43. Are these 1/4 - :)1/2 bouy differences really a difference in skier, or ski/fin. Don’t know. Consistency is looking like new Bar. I call it a tie :)

[matthewbrown]

No because he was never as efficient as Nate, it was more power and strength. If however, he was allowed to do it all over 30 years later, AND was able to make the slight adjustments to his technique from the start, then I would say Yes because of his physical prowess.

[chris55]

Maybe you could read what Chris Parrish said about Andy on istagram....

https://www.instagram.com/cparrish43/

It would had been a great and very fair battle anyway because they both are great persons and great athletes

[Jody_Seal]

Nate don't trick!

Nate Don't jump!

Andy was not just the slalom GOAT but truly a overall monster!!

My vote will always go to Andy!

[liquid d]

@horton .....Wade won over 20 times with Andy in his prime...not sure i would put him down for getting his ass kicked by Andy....

[6balls]

@liquid d how many times did Andy win with Wade in his prime? Fierce competitors, best of their era...Wade would have ruled w/out Andy there. Was a cool time in water skiing, and two great guys.

[Horton]

@liquid d I would like to see the win percentage. As @6balls said without Andy - Wade would have won everything. Kind of like without Regina - Whitney would currently run the table most of the time for the ladies.

[Wish]

Without Nate, does any one skier run the table? Does seem like Andy would have made it one hell of a challenge for him.

[BraceMaker]

@Wish Just such a hard thing to compare.

growing up it seemed that Andy Mapple had a job as a professional skier. Nate seems to be the best skier in a world where it doesnt seem like he has a job.

 

I always viewed it as mapple having a full plate, family, competition, engineer, skier. But I have no real concept of Nate doing anything other than skiing and seems like less often?

 

In other words will a 50 yo Nate Smith look like vs Andy.

[ForrestGump]

Oh man, now Bracemaker did it. THAT is a fantastic question about Nate at 50.

[Drago]

Even. Total brawl to the end every tournament.

At the pro tour sites Wade vs Andy skied back then, maybe Andy would have the edge, but not kicking ass