MASTERLINE OPTIMIZED SLIDE LOOP 11 SECTION MAINLINE- Info we have

[perfski]

Hey Everyone, We just received some of Masterline's new Optimized Slide Loop Mainlines. I really didn't have much info on them..but got off the phone with Randy Shoener...and wanted to share with you a summary of what he told me. Please note these are my words interpreted from our conversation. I'm sure they will put out a much more detailed and technical summary of the new rope / whats different and what you will expect as a skier...but my hope is to help give you a little insight into what I learned from him this morning. We have these in stock if you want any also.

 

https://www.perfski.com/ski/ropes-and-handles/slalom-ropes/masterline-optimized-slide-loop-11-section-mainline.html

 

December 21, 2018: We reached out to Randy Shoener at Masterline to give us insight on their new Optimized Slide Loop Mainline. Here is a summary of what we learned.

 

Tournament skiers ski different…the load they put on the line….demands put on their rope can vary greatly depending on their skiing style, technique and urgency at any point in the slalom course.

Masterline reached out to their team skiers to put the load numbers on paper…assess the needs of skiers of all levels and skiing styles to build an ALL NEW rope that is optimized to meet the demands that most skiers put on the rope.

 

In discussion with skiers and coaches all over the world….they heard complaints that ski ropes were too hard, or too soft….and finding an optimal flex / stretch in a rope was their goal. Masterline started experimenting with the worlds elite skiers in all divisions. A super technical and efficient skier like Nate Smith simply doesn’t put the demands and load on the rope as someone with a ultra aggressive - slashing style of skiing. If a skier gets into trouble….the demands on your rope changes….there are a myriad of different scenarios here….but Masterline took this data, load numbers and used computer modeling to come up with the optimal flex and stretch to best suit the overall group of tournament skiers as a whole. The computer modeled the load data on all the skiers to find a perfect flex number for the average tournament skier. Not too stiff….not too soft…..so that a skier can get the most acceleration out of the rope while limiting recoil yet still having the stiffness to optimize skier performance.

 

So what are you going to feel?…what will this rope do different?

In talking with Masterline’s R & D team….skiers will find the rope MUCH more forgiving at the buoy…and it will allow them to finish the turn, hold more edge effectively on the back side fo the buoy….vs pulling them off edge like some of the current ropes do. Bottom line..the rope works better….the Active Rope Technology helps the reduce skier fatigue, minimize mistakes and overall just to ski better irregardless of the demands put on the rope.

 

Made with Masterline’s proven Poly Pro Max…..but optimized in the polymers used to make the rope and stretch / rebound characteristics….this rope is the new standard for what ski ropes can be.

 

 

[dave2ball]

The new rope is awesome.

 

[KRoundy]

Wow. That's more than I paid for my last handle, but I sure like the idea...

[SkiJay]

I went to the new rope and it was nice. After a month with it, I went back to my old rope half way through a set to see if I could feel any difference. I just about missed my first pass by getting yanked off the second wake, unexpected slack after the ball, and a harsh hookup that caught me not quite finished turning ... repeat. Then I missed the next pass. So I went back to the new rope and everything was easy again. The change was not subtle. In fact it was quite dramatic, even at -28 and -32.

[dchristman]

@skijay I'm sure you just sold a lot of ropes for Masterline!

[Bruce_Butterfield]

Ok, but what happens when you train with the new rope and go to a tournament that has the "old" ropes? I doubt anyone will be getting their entry fee refunded.

 

Yes, this is kind of rhetorical, and kudos to Masterline for improving their product. We just need to be aware of the real world impacts with something new.

[Ed_Johnson]

Years a go I use to ski with Brenda's ropes and liked them a lot. The problem was that all the Tournaments seemed to use Masterline, so I switched. I remember it felt like going from a Bungee Cord to a Steel Cable. I have stayed with Masterline for the simple reason that it was to big an adjustment to practice with the Bungee Cord, of which I skied better, and then have to face the Steel Cable at the Tournaments.

 

My hope is that the New Rope will be used at Tournaments now, which sounds like it would be an improvement. Hope springs eternal !!!

 

 

[Skirvind]

I skied the new rope with Matt Rini in October. Being 245lb, he was intrested in how the rope felt to me. It skied great felt solid but soft. perhaps i cloud say it feels like a brenda rope with out the spongy stretch. But I'm not a fan the slip loop style. so I hope they make it loop contruction like the pro rope for my next purchase

[igkya]

@SkiJay How old was your 'old' rope?

[blakeyates]

It looks like I’ll be getting a “post Christmas” Christmas present under the tree. Heck, my birthday is in January; I need a Ski Doc too.

[The_MS]

Will they use this rope in the regular 41 off rope?

[SkiJay]

@igkya, my old rope was only 4 months old. I have three of them—barely used. If anyone reading this is skiing on a truly tight budget, PM me and I'll send one to you as a late Christmas present.

[teammalibu]

So if I practice on one of these ropes and then go to a tournament that doesn’t use them I will suck more than usual!

[teammalibu]

Sorry Bruce

[JackQ]

SkiJay, what are the old ropes that you no longer like. I prefer Brenda’s ropes as they are always dead on, not just in toterance; and I find the loops are easy to use and safer than the Masterline method. The boat crew can if not paying attention “split the loop” and put the wrong portion on the pylon. Happen to me twice last year, once in a tournament at 39, I felt a slip and I let go.. One other skier at our lake had a similar mishap and did not immediately let go, and had a resulting crash with injured ribs.

[dchristman]

From the Masterline website:

 

New for 2019!

 

Our new official tournament rope for the Masters Waterski and Wakeboard tournament, Big Dawg Series, Regionals and Nationals tournaments. If you are skiing in a tournament, you should be practicing with this rope.

[jayski]

@JackQ you obviously have no expierience with the Masterline slide loop as errs in pylon placement are impossible...also to insinuate they are only 'in tolerance' is incorrect...and I wonder who does more for our sport? Sponsorship...advancements in rope technology? Fine to support a company that just sells product but my morals lead my spending to those that look after our sport...

 

Anyone ever ask where other companies get their bulk rope from?? ?

[JackQ]

JaySki, I agree that ML side loops are fantastic. Unless they have recently changed, all their ropes do not have that feature, or some tournaments (2018) are using ropes older than I would expect. I was not attempting to disparage ML accuracy, I have been using their handles for over a decade, but many mfgs have had at least sporatic tolerance issues. I was unaware of what mfg of the “old” ropes you were referring to. That being said, Brenda’s ropes are top notch and hare never felt the slightest bit stretchy to me.

 

I haven’t yet tried ML new optomized line, but doubt I will feel the difference but if they provide a little more forgiveness hooking up at the buoys my elbows will hurt less. Since going to the 80 strand lines ten+ years ago, I feel more stress on my joints. I weighed more at the time, ~205, which may have extenuated the effect of the 80 strand rope.

[SkiJay]

My elbows have been on fire for a year, regardless of curved handles, palm down starts, stretching, etc. Within one month of going to ML's optimized rope, my elbows are 90% healed. I know this is purely anecdotal, but I changed nothing else other than the rope. And for the record, I'm not sponsored by MasterLine and have to buy my ropes just like anyone else. So my observations are honest and voluntary. I was skeptical at first, but now believe this rope is a real breakthrough.

[dave2ball]

@JackQ this new ML rope is a game changer. The rope loads you smoother less slack at the ball smoother edge change after the load is released.

[ALPJr]

Good to here. We all moved to In Tow ropes a few years ago and noticed a similar effect. Changed from straightlines and accurates.

[WaterSkier12]

Any difference in the Jr ropes?

[jimski]

So far I need a new rope a whisper fin slalom fundamental lessons with

Horton and single pick zero off upgrade for my 200

What else is coming out I can't live without

[UWSkier]

Does the new rope make ZO feel more like PP?

[Killer]

What happens when the wind blows 11 from the SE?

[BraceMaker]

@jimski new denali?

[MISkier]

I’m trying to figure out what has actually changed. It sounds like some of you say the old rope was too tight. I had experienced the opposite. I thought the old ropes were too stretchy - at least the Black tournament ropes. The improvement for me would be less stretch. What did they really do to the new rope?

[Jody_Seal]

@dave2ball you ought to post a video of the process from spooled yarn to end product. The braiders a cool to watch run..

[The_MS]

@mlusa Is there only 1 rope to buy or do you use the same rope for all your ropes? Getting ready to purchase a new rope for the season.

 

[scoke]

Recent experience and our plan:

 

A few weeks back someone skiing with us had one of these new style ropes. After a few passes, they asked if they could swap out my rope and let me try it mid-set. Sure why not?

 

I skied a pass on it and ran some buoys. WOW. Asked if they were swerving or slowed the boat down. NOPE. Ran another pass and immediately told them to swap it back to my personal rope. They couldn't believe I didn't want to keep skiing it. Told them it was too good and the next few sets would be on my personal rope and didn't want to get spoiled.

 

No it's not a silver bullet and an end all be all but it sure was a game changer as well as evolution in technology.

 

We plan on ordering 3 ropes tomorrow or next week:

1 for myself

1 for Ms. Scoke

1 as a backup

 

 

 

 

[dave2ball]

@Jody_Seal I agree I don’t think ML would allow that Ill ask though.

 

[dave2ball]

@scoke yep game changer.

[Roger]

Will they offer this rope in the standard loop series? Every single boat judge I have ever worked with hates the slide loop ropes.

[igkya]

@Roger, just curious, but why do they hate them? What about ropes with a fixed loop ropes?

[dave2ball]

@Roger call Masterline. I don’t think so. Slide loops are much easier to use.

[Dacon62]

Hope they offer it in the Progressor series.

[Zman]

It the life expectancy of this new rope about the same as previous MLUSA ropes? Or, any rope?

[lpskier]

Anyone notice that LLUSA preceeds MLUSA? Conspiracy, or just a coincidence?

[The_MS]

I agree with @Roger and hope they are making it in regular.

How many LOC will be using the new rope at events this summer?

[Chef23]

My concern becomes what happens when you go to a tournament and they aren't using the new ML rope. It isn't mandatory by the AWSA so you might not get it at a tournament. Then we will be back to the PP vs ZO thing again. I ski worse in tournaments because I have a different rope than I practice with.

[The_MS]

I think I may stay retired another year until it’s all figured out or until I get time to play with ropes, new Nautique tab settings and ZO plus settings.

[dave2ball]

@Chef23 your bigger concern is why are they still using old ropes from last year? And not new ropes? The average tournament has 2 ropes and pulls 120 rides of slalom. That is 60 rides per rope per tournament. Multiple tournaments and you have close to 200 rides per rope. The rope is already dead. Where do you draw the line and make the change to new fresh ropes?? If the TC/ LOC does not change the ropes he is doing a disservice to every skier who enters the event.

[klindy]

@Roger & @scotchipman - A bit of perspective from the dumb end of the rope.

 

We used the new ropes at both the PanAm's and the 35+ Worlds in Chile last month. I didn't hear a lot of talk about the ropes from the skiers (but didn't ask).

 

However as both judge for several events, I had to get used to the ropes. The loops from 15-28 are slide loops AND are detachable from the shorter lengths. In other words, you have a slide loop and you can detach any of the longer rope you don't want to typically ski with. Of course at the tournaments we had the entire rope intact. Once you get to 32 off and shorter you have a "typical" slide loop with the remaining rope in the boat still attached. This isn't a problem but how you go about attaching it to the pylon was a bit different depending on what rope length you were at.

 

Add the rubber length marker (I typically cut them off my personal ropes) and the Velcro loop on the recoil snausage and it made rope changes a bit tricky. It wasn't bad once you got used to it but it took some concentration to sort out everything before the ZO timer went off. (@Russell leave the Velcro off the snausage and recommend putting the loop below the rope instead).

 

The other downside of this rope was that the rope was essentially white with a pair of colored strands braided in. So trying to figure out what the rope length was from the shore was nearly impossible.

 

Again, neither are a deal breaker but just something that's different from what we're generally used to seeing. How it feels from the skier perspective is far more important in my opinion.

 

[Russell]

@klindy Thanks for the perspective. Actually, PanAm's and 35+ Worlds used different ropes. They pulled the PanAms with our Pro's and I left them the new Optimized Slide Loops to pull the 35+ tournament. I think that was part of the reason for the high scores across the 3 mens divisions.

 

You make a good point regarding the slide loop sections from 15-28. These sections are removable and work slightly different than the other sections. I generally use a rope that starts at 28 off with my kids and don't use those first sections very often. I can't figure out why anyone wouldn't like the slide loops. These are so much easier and almost impossible to put on the pylon incorrectly. However, the 22 and 28 off sections are a little more complicated.

 

We use this combo of loops so that the majority of skiers can just remove the longer sections and just start at 28off. From that point, this rope is super easy and far superior to any other rope I've used. My thought is that the people that are complaining about the slide loop sections are those using 22 and 28 off. 15 off doesn't have the two ropes connected so works like a normal slide loop.

 

We thought about just making it a solid line, but it's nice to be able to remove 22 and hold onto it just in case you need it and not ruin the line by cutting off sections.

[Russell]

@Roger The new slide loop will be the "Official" rope of many tournaments in 2019 such as Masters, Big Dawg, Regionals, Nationals as well as international events. Most tournaments will follow the lead of the big tournaments so they stay consistent. There is a chance you could ski in a tournament with a different line, but you more than likely will have a better chance of skiing with the new "Optimized" rope at a tournament. Tournaments, especially R, shouldn't be using old ropes from last year. They should be providing the best experience for the skiers. Our goal is to produce the best product for the skier. Check out the video of Nate skiing in the drysuit running 41 off with the new Optimized Slide Loop. https://www.facebook.com/NateSmith43/videos/pcb.2488543554494327/2488543294494353/

[Not_The_Pug]

@klindy The best way I have found to get as you called it the "recoil snausage" from getting messed up in the rope is use the Velcro holder that comes with the rope and put a caribiner through the grommet and Velcro to the pylon below where the rope attaches. I keep a couple of them ready to go in my promo boat. Even have extra's for other boats that show up. This way you only have to mess with the rope when shortening at each end. It is easy to un-clip when changing ropes at the dock.

[dave2ball]

@MS no Masterline is not going to make the new rope other then slide loop.

[klindy]

@Russell thanks for the additional info! Like I said, nothing negative meant by my comments at all. Just something I had to get used to doing. It didn’t take long. Being able to remove the sections you don’t need is a nice feature. And I agree, I’m not sure why someone would dislike the slide loops.

 

Great rope! Thanks for putting a great deal of effort into something a seemingly simple as the the rope. It really demonstrates the philosophy at MLUSA!

[teammalibu]

Mine should be here today along with the ergo handle! Hope good things happen!

[dave2ball]

@teammalibu you will love it. Especially at 35 and shorter. I have been using one for 8 weeks now and it is awesome