What do you think about this idea? Do you think it will work?? (RTP Topic)

[Ryota]

Hey Ballers!!

I finally got my Oneill Neo Fluid Dry Suits for body. Surf Glove for hands, Head/Face mask for my Face.

I am ready for real winter skiing in Japan!

 

But there is one problem. My Rear foot isn't protected from cold air or water.

I am using HO RTP. It's quite tight so I have to kicking my rear foot into RTP very hard to put in right place.

 

The problem is, If I wear a surf sox, can't get my rear foot into RTP to the end.

 

So I came up this idea.

 

I attacked the snowboard biding photo below.

Remove those 2 buckles and somehow attach to the Rear metal plate.

Then I can adjust tightness with those buckles even surf sox is on my rear foot.

 

I know you guys think/suggest buying HRT or ARTP. Or just bring full of hot water in the bucket to warm up my hands and foots.

But don't want to spend money on HRT/ARTP and international shipping cost in the case of I didn't like them.

i can get those snowboard buckles fairly cheap.

 

I'm curious some skier here may have tried something similar or know other good idea or suggestions!

 

p.s please excuse my english if some of them don't make sense.

 

Thank you!!!

[Jetsetr]

Would think as long as your foot comes out there shouldn’t be an issue...unconventional, bit so is skiing on a piece of lumber with no bindings at all...might be a problem with lateral stability...others here know more than I. Knowledge is Power...

 

You’re English is better than most college students...don’t worry about it. We know what you mean...

[Gloersen]

@Ryota - conceivably it may work, assuming you can get the release aspect to "feel" right. However, due to difference in the way the foot/ankle are affixed, it may perform quite differently from a tight fitting RTP, to the extent it may adversely affect consistency from one setup to the other.

 

A Reflex R-style, perhaps cut down a bit if desired, may accommodate your surf sock for warmth, and perform at least a little more like that of an RTP; but it will still be "different" regarding lateral control especially - imo.

[Ryota]

@Jetsetr @Gloersen At least it's worth to try a new thing!

I also thought about heel part of R-style to make it more like RTP.

But I didn't have any R-style and also didn't want to mess one up.

Tighten buckles on tiptoe harder than ankle buckle(little bit loosen) may feel like RTP.

As long as it's not a rubber, I think I'll have to get used to snowboard buckle which is not stretch.

[lpskier]

Slightly off topic, but if you switch to any double hard shell binding, your feet will be comfortable all winter.

 

As to your idea, it seems to me that the width of a snowboard binding will exceed the width of your ski, thereby causing excessive drag. Give it a try and see if it works.

 

I’ve seen various people try to integrate winter ski gear into water skiing. While once in a while something will work for someone (see Joel Howley), the various ideas have never caught on, with perhaps three exceptions: the Reflex heel release, the Fogman release, and one could argue that hard shells are a cousin of snow ski boots (but really they are in line skate boots). Have I missed anything?

[eleeski]

Get an Intuition liner and rubber band it on your foot. Cut the cuff and most of the heel away on old plastic Rollerblade boot. Heat it with a heat gun to make the kick in easier. I replaced the clips with a rubber band of old binding material. For me, it was magic to have a toe kicker that was always in the right place and gave the feel of double hardshells with the movement of a toe kicker. Plus I could get up foot out.

 

 

@Ryota Find Kirk in Osaka at the Waterworld show at Universal to ski with! He's seen and used some of my crazy designs.

 

Eric

 

[Stevie Boy]

Personally I think it is a accident waiting to happen, any twisting motion and your foot is going to get caught up in one of the straps, any strap arrangement is going to be hit and miss in my mind, needs to be a shell of some sort or rtp

Good Luck ! with it, I won't be investing

[condorpilot]

Ryota, you could try removing the top rubber strap from your current RTP for winter.This will reduce the tension and should allow you get your foot in easily whilst wearing a sock. Put strap back on come spring. No cost.

[eleeski]

@condorpilot The overlay is mostly advertising. It does very little. I always remove it to save weight.

 

However, @Ryota might benefit from removing the binding rubber and just using the overlay along with a thick wetsuit sock or thin liner. A bit softer but I've used it effectively as binding rubber. Feels great but not much support. Not bad for a slalom rear toe with a liner if you get the kick in right.

 

On another note, I've had bad luck with snowboard parts. The clips feel OK in the shop but lose lots of effectiveness after a couple sets. The plastic is too thick, heavy and hard. I haven't successfully gotten the snowboard parts to work despite some effort.

 

Eric

[condorpilot]

eleeski, wonder if Ryota would benefit from combining this idea with the addition of the buckled strap mounted to the middle screws of the RTP clamp in place of the rubber removed, ie kick in with buckle / strap in position then push the cam closed on the buckle to give more security?

[BraceMaker]

Most ratchet buckles the steps are too coarse in adjustment. Skipping 5mm or so per tooth such that they go loose loose loose ermahgawd tight.

 

There exist micro click buckles which have 2 separate "pawls" to engage the ratcheting strap spaced slightly apart so you have steps have the thickness of the normal ratcheting buckles.

 

What I'd do if you're wearing a footboot would be pull the footbed and put some thin grip tape or thin foam rubber under your foot to get more room in the RTP.

[eleeski]

@condorpilot If you are kicking in, a buckle/hard strap doesn't work - at least for me. That's why I used the binding rubber in place of the buckle. It felt better with some give and movement. But I didn't want my heel slipping around - which felt horrible to me with a conventional toe kicker. I tried a couple heel cups with mediocre results.

 

If you are using this as a more flexible double boot, a clip in might work. But so would any of the low cut rear boots like FM Evo or Reflex R where the R&D is done for you. Reaching down to play with your rear toe is not an option in a short lake.

 

@BraceMaker I did OK with the adjustment intervals of a snowboard clip. But I couldn't get enough leverage to get it reliably tight enough. Also, it didn't take too many runs (even less in the salt water) before the ratcheting mechanism failed. The normal Rollerblade clips are pretty good.

 

Removing the footbed is a good theory but I wasn't able to get a full kick in with the friction of the rubber and the liner. And my heel still slipped around.

 

Eric

[condorpilot]

Eric, I replaced footbed with Wiley’s Pebble Deck Non Skid . Good solution to the issue you highlighted in your last paragraph. Let’s you kick in and no friction until you put some weight on it. Working well for me and no slip on heel.

[Ryota]

@eleeski @condorpilot

I just want to make it feel close to similar RTP feeling as much as possible. Both of your ideas are good! I would like to try both.

 

[BMG73]

Delete edit

[Southside_Mike]

Why not just buy one of these? -

 

 

https://reflexwaterskiusa.com/product/rear-toe-plate-rtp

 

 

[vtmecheng]

Do you know anyone who travels to America at times? If so, maybe they could pick up an ARTP and bring it back for you. It's thinner so wouldn't be hard to fit into a suitcase. Ultimately, it's a RTP and not your front binding so you probably don't have to worry as much about not liking the new one. I changed mine last year and thought the new one felt strange but once buoys were coming I forgot about it. Can't say the same about a front binding. Good luck in your search.

[Wayne]

Why not make some spacers out of plastic sheet to raise the toe strap? I think HO uses stainless wood or sheet metal screws through the bottom of the plate into those pieces that hold the toe strap down. Get some longer screws and some plastic that is a few millimeters thick. The plastic should be able to be cut/drilled with hand tools and you will probably be able to get everything you need in Japan for less than the snowboard bindings.

 

By stacking spacers you can adjust the fit as needed.

[Ryota]

@eleeski @condorpilot @Stevie Boy So eventually I ended up using adjustable buckle for snowboard.

I think I made almost what I wanted.

When water gets warm, I switch my rubber back.

 

 

I understand that many of you suggest or recommend buying R-style or HRTP etc.

I just wanted to keep RTP style. This was only within 20$.

What do you think?

[Gloersen]

@Ryota - You may need to trim down the lateral borders of the strap brackets to avert overhanging the sidewall. That should have a very similar RTP feel, especially if you could engineer a way to elastisize the adjustable aft strap.

Very clever, nice work!

[skialex]

@Ryota also trim down the screws for extra safety. It’s almost impossible but you might cut yourself or your suit there.

Great mod, very good work!

[Ryota]

@Gloersen yes. I will cut down the plate little bit more.

Surf boots are 3mm. I feel like pretty similar feeling of RTP due to it's rubber surface.

Also,those straps are little stretchy so that's also good.

One problem I have is, it won't release easily like RTP.

@skialex

will do!!

[skialex]

@Ryota how do you test release? Did you ski on or land test it? Soak the surf boot first and try to pull your foot out similarly to what you would do on a hard shell land test. If you still want to lower the friction add a layer of duct tape or thin plastic on the top of your surf soak. If duct tape is your solution but does not stay on when wet, use some contact adhesive (not going back after that).

Keep us posted, very interesting for us RTP guys.

[BraceMaker]

Just a thought, I'm also RFF and I've found that on my rear boot since I tend to have the Rear outwards rotated a smidge that stuff on the outside of the foot tends to drag in the water - where as stuff on the inside of the arm doesn't so much - so I would consider switching those buckles to the other side.

 

I don't run into it on the front anymore.

[Ryota]

@skialex Haven't skied with this yet. I have to think about the how it release. Once tighten it, i think it won't release because of surf boot is rubber. Maybe I might have to put a duck tape to help releasing. Or i just little loosen on ankle buckle.

Otherwise, when I crash, even front release, rear won't which is bad.

I'll figure it out.

 

@BraceMaker switching buckles are easy! I'll give a ride with this, and will switch how it goes.

[Ryota]

I always tilted RTP so I had to cut the edge of the plate that I attached.now this is what it looks like.

I didn't feel any drag from it.I think this is working how I expected.

[Stevie Boy]

@Ryota I actually like that idea, if something like that was more refined, it would make a great adjustable RTP, the current adjustable RTP's with the velcro thing doesn,t do it for me, I do not have a standard foot, I generally end up buying oversized RTP trimmimg it and re-doing the holes to get something that I am happy with.

I like it but would have to see if it is possible to refine it enough to make something like that for permanent use, the turnbuckle style might be better or though the ones you are using are more flexible, would have individual brackets to miminise the metal work.

[Ryota]

This also helps me in winter skiing.

O'Neill 1.5mm surf glove which will keep your hands warm

and leather palm guard for gym weight training which gives you good grip and protect surf glove.

[dvskier]

@Ryota Incredible innovation for cold water skiing! Are you an engineer?

[Ryota]

@dvskier for me, it feels ok. it's much better than freezing hands.

[Ryota]

So I've been using this adjustable RTP with snowboard buckles about 10 sets.

and I did some crash.

The result was It didn't release. I wasn't injured at all though.

But big buckle bother release system or even if it releases, if the buckles are too tightened, not releasing. you can see in my video.

BUT it's winter. I shouldn't ski too hard.

[Ryota]

 

[ToddL]

@Ryota I am quite certain that you are gambling with a risky possibility of serious injury. I think you just got lucky this time. Even skiing "not so hard" will not reduce the risk of injury. You are a great skier, and I would hate to see you get hurt. Please consider _any_ changes/improvements which will increase the ability to release from your RTP.

[eleeski]

That's a pretty short time to get two risky falls on video. Front foot out, back foot in is quite dangerous as the lever arm from the front of the ski is huge. Avoid that! Be careful.

 

Slip a polyethylene tongue between the buckles and your booties? Polyethylene is reasonably slippery and will allow your foot to release better from the buckles. Polyethylene should float so you will find it in a yard sale. Try something different.

 

If you want the back foot to stay in, lock in the front foot as well. Injuries from both feet in are less common and can be less severe.

 

Nothing is perfect but you can reduce your injury chances.

 

Eric

[mmosley899]

@eleeski that is exactly what I suggested!

[Stevie Boy]

@Ryota One of my bad knee injuries was from the ski going out in front the front foot slipped out of the binding but the back foot stayed in the RTP, the ski then propelled and wrecked my knee, surgery followed.

My opinion now is that you should ditch this arrangement before it is too late, it is just not worth the risk !