Baller A_B Posted January 1, 2019 Baller Share Posted January 1, 2019 We haven’t used copper or Cutrine for years as the dye and Amurs have done the job. Need to restock some smaller Amurs this year and continue to fight the Phragmites. This is our #1 threat at the moment. I’m thinking of trying the weed mats along the shoreline for the Phragmites in bad sections. Anyone try these? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller teammalibu Posted January 1, 2019 Baller Share Posted January 1, 2019 @MS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller jipster43 Posted January 1, 2019 Baller Share Posted January 1, 2019 Thanks @A_B @Golfguy !!! I was concerned there may be a health issue for humans. I’m beyond help but my daughter skis there! The farmer who owns the lake is only concerned about not damaging the potatoes and then weed control. Everything else be damned! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller eleeski Posted January 1, 2019 Baller Share Posted January 1, 2019 Note that you can use copper sulfate and still be an "organic" farm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgturf Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 If you add up the comments most have it correct for their regions. Their is not a magic formula for all lakes. For the lakes that are in the south that have a lot of rain water and water passing down stream Reward/Diquat, copper sulfate, Clearcast and other contact herbicides are your friends. When you get to closed bodies of waters like most in California lake dyes, Diuron/Karmex (exposed shoreline), Sonar, Sureguard(non died lakes) are all options. When in doubt call a professional and ask a lot of questions. Water treatment needs to be done preventively and when the weeds are small. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ DW Posted January 9, 2019 Baller_ Share Posted January 9, 2019 Also be aware of the 'unintended consequences', in particular where you may eradicate or control an existing native species only to have an invasive come in and take over. Not saying don't, but consider the ramifications of each type of treatment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller igkya Posted May 3, 2020 Baller Share Posted May 3, 2020 @Zman How much oil dri per gal of diquat did you use? For those that use 2,4-D, how did you apply the product to the ponds? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Zman Posted May 3, 2020 Baller Share Posted May 3, 2020 @igkya. I used about 2-1/2 gallons of diquat added to 80 lbs of oil dry. Mix it up, and let it soak in for a couple days in a covered tote. Then broadcast where needed. Don't do more than 1/4 or 1/3 of your lake surface area at a time. Maybe 3 to 4 weeks apart? Too much weed kill, too fast can cause an algae bloom. You could also add a half gallon of Cutrene to help counter this. We did the above, and added grass carp to eat the new weed growth. The carp would not eat our develooed weeds. Hope this helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Horton Posted May 3, 2020 Author Administrators Share Posted May 3, 2020 you guys put diquat in your lake and then let kids swim ? Goode ★ KD Skis ★ MasterCraft ★ PerfSki ★ Radar ★ Reflex ★ S Lines ★ Stokes Drop a dime in the can Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller thager Posted May 3, 2020 Baller Share Posted May 3, 2020 No, we inject it with chlorine! B) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ The_MS Posted May 4, 2020 Baller_ Share Posted May 4, 2020 @Horton I don’t think its a good idea for the kids to swim but It’s no problem to go for a ski ride Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller 2Valve Posted May 4, 2020 Baller Share Posted May 4, 2020 we've taken on a different approach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Horton Posted May 4, 2020 Author Administrators Share Posted May 4, 2020 @The_MS oh yeah I forgot how much you hate children Goode ★ KD Skis ★ MasterCraft ★ PerfSki ★ Radar ★ Reflex ★ S Lines ★ Stokes Drop a dime in the can Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller TonyT Posted May 4, 2020 Baller Share Posted May 4, 2020 We use floradone at 2 lake site. Concentrated, expensive but very effective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller bojans Posted May 4, 2020 Baller Share Posted May 4, 2020 @igkya We spread the 2-4D using a small boat with a 20 gallon sprayer tank in the boat attached to a 10' boom with 6 weighted lines that go down ~10' and have nozzles connected. This gets the undiluted chemical to the plant quite well. It took some trial and error to get the nozzle size correct. We calibrated the flow using dye in the tank to watch the flow pattern and measure the output. Unfortunately I do not have any pictures of the rig. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller bojans Posted May 4, 2020 Baller Share Posted May 4, 2020 @Horton Am I missing something on diquat? The documentation I see says there is not a now swim or no fish period after using it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ The_MS Posted May 4, 2020 Baller_ Share Posted May 4, 2020 Let them swim so they can take part in the class action lawsuit that will inevitably happen in a few years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Horton Posted May 4, 2020 Author Administrators Share Posted May 4, 2020 @bojans just because the US Government does not say it is dangerous does not mean it is good for you. Most European countries have banned it. Diquat dibromide is moderately toxic. It may be fatal to humans if swallowed, inhaled, or absorbed through the skin in large quantities.[1][17] Its chronic neurotoxic effects have been investigated.[21] First aid measures are included with the label information.[12] The World Health Organization (WHO) and Food and Agriculture Organization (FAO) joint meeting on pesticide residues has determined that the acceptable daily intake for diquat (as its ion) is 0-0.006 mg/kg bodyweight per day,[22] with an acute reference dose of 0.8 mg/kg bodyweight.[23] The Codex Alimentarius database maintained by the FAO lists the maximum residue limits for diquat in various food products.[24] Goode ★ KD Skis ★ MasterCraft ★ PerfSki ★ Radar ★ Reflex ★ S Lines ★ Stokes Drop a dime in the can Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Skoot1123 Posted May 4, 2020 Baller Share Posted May 4, 2020 Returning to some advice on weed control - what have folks done to control or get rid of Cattails? We have some that are trying to overtake our swim area. The swim area does get to about 10 feet deep but the cattails are now in about 3 1/2 feet. If possible I’d like to get something done quickly as they could be a huge problem as they spread out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller fernandofleck Posted May 4, 2020 Baller Share Posted May 4, 2020 I am cleaning a lake in Brazil only with fish. In November/19, I bought 2000kg of grass carp and by april they have eaten aprox half of the weed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller bojans Posted May 4, 2020 Baller Share Posted May 4, 2020 @Horton Thanks for the info, much appreciated. How do you feel about 2-4d? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller skierjp Posted May 4, 2020 Baller Share Posted May 4, 2020 @Skoot1123 Round Up will kill cattails easy or you could buy a Weed Razer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Horton Posted May 4, 2020 Author Administrators Share Posted May 4, 2020 people think I'm crazy but I say cattails prevent backwash and erosion. as long as your lake is deep enough keep them Goode ★ KD Skis ★ MasterCraft ★ PerfSki ★ Radar ★ Reflex ★ S Lines ★ Stokes Drop a dime in the can Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller buoyboy1 Posted May 4, 2020 Baller Share Posted May 4, 2020 Agreed. Try to keep as much shoreline vegetation as possible as your perfect shelf will disappear over the years unless you are in sandy conditions. Several years ago I replanted Pickerelweed (lost existing vegetation due to unruly sterile carp), and now when I get done skiing there is zero turbidity near the shorelines. Before it was turbid and muddy for about 20 feet out. Muddy water after skiing = erosion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller jayski Posted May 4, 2020 Baller Share Posted May 4, 2020 I can most definitely confirm Horton's comment, cattails are most definitely a VERY effective backwash control and inhibit erosion greatly, along with that they do a great job of blocking wind. He may still be crazy but not in regards to his view on Cattails, my lake has lots of 'em @skierjp cutting cattails is useless, they grow back, they are sprouted by a root system so cutting is a wasted effort, and spraying with Round Up alone is very ineffective also, you need to add surfactant to it and THEN it is super effective. If you can find it use Rodeo instead of round up, greater concentration of Glyphosphate than any Round Up out there and cheaper too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Skoot1123 Posted May 4, 2020 Baller Share Posted May 4, 2020 @Horton - I also agree with you. Their root system is what I would call “ferocious”. I wouldn’t mind if it lined out shores a bit where there are steep sides, but in the swim area that is a gradual grade all the way around (our beach area is wind protected and more like a bay). This gradual grade makes weeds more prevalent whenever the sun shines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Zman Posted May 5, 2020 Baller Share Posted May 5, 2020 I had no concern being in the lake 2 days after treating with diquat. We are talking about 2-1/2 gallons very slowly releasing into more than 30 million gallons of water in the case of my lake. And, chemically breaking down as it killed the weeds. With the addition of the carp, never had to treat again before I moved. This process was recommended to us by a PHD instructor at a local university ag extension with expertise in herbacides. Figured he was smarter than me. He was. But, I don't discount the concerns. In our case, there were few, if any options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Horton Posted May 5, 2020 Author Administrators Share Posted May 5, 2020 @bojans 2-4d is not terrible but technically it is a carcinogen FYI I am not really an expert. My wife is a scientist for one of the nation's largest organic farms. (more than 40,000 acres) Opinions are really hers on this subject. Goode ★ KD Skis ★ MasterCraft ★ PerfSki ★ Radar ★ Reflex ★ S Lines ★ Stokes Drop a dime in the can Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Bongo Posted May 5, 2020 Baller Share Posted May 5, 2020 I endorse what @jayski said about Rodeo. Rodeo mixed with an acquatic friendly surfactant was very effective in our lake. Informally recommended by a wildlife biologist working for a neighboring state. We had lotus plants taking over our lake. They have a similar root system as cattails. I spent the last half of one summer using a pump sprayer on their big leaves with Rodeo over ~4 cycles, each about 3 weeks apart. Then ~3 treatments smaller the next spring. The last couple years, we have been mostly lotus weed free; mixed up a small batch and sprayed a handful of plants around mid-summer just so there wouldn't be an outbreak. Similar lake a mile away, and they are almost better off portaging their canoe across rather than trying to paddle through the lotus weeds. Now, if only I could get the cattails to grow where I want without too much effort... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller garyh20ski Posted May 5, 2020 Baller Share Posted May 5, 2020 @Skoot1123 For cattails we have had really good success with a cocktail of Clearcast, Aquaneat and a pine oil based surfactant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller eleeski Posted May 5, 2020 Baller Share Posted May 5, 2020 Mechanically clearing out a small swimming area by hand is doable. Use a handheld sickle or corn knife and cut them at the base. It's fast and easy. If you have a lot of growth, removing the cuttings is a much bigger project than the cutting. Stay ahead of the cattails. Cattails do make excellent windbreaks and backwash suppressors. Until they grow out too much. Then they break off into islands that float into the boat path and leave behind a solid root system wall that amplifies the backwash. They took over the old lake (after 20 years). Surprisingly, they stopped at about 3' of water depth and have not moved out into the course. Realistically, I should drain the lake and rework the banks to get rid of the cattails if we were skiing that lake. It might be worth more as habitat though. I'm not sure anything can keep cattails completely out. Certainly, I haven't been able to control them. I trim them back by hand where I need it clear. That's not too hard but I do have to actually get out there and work. Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller blakeyates Posted May 5, 2020 Baller Share Posted May 5, 2020 When killing the weeds that are growing from the bottom of the lake, do they float to the top once they die? I don't want to miss "any" ski sets! I've seen this happen before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Horton Posted May 5, 2020 Author Administrators Share Posted May 5, 2020 I just asked my local entomologist, agronomist, PCA, organic farming professional wife about copper sulfate. she says that it is used in organic farming and it is also toxic. just because something is organic does not mean it is non-toxic. copper is needed for plant nutrition. on the other hand hammering your lake with it it's probably not good for people swimming in it. Goode ★ KD Skis ★ MasterCraft ★ PerfSki ★ Radar ★ Reflex ★ S Lines ★ Stokes Drop a dime in the can Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Zman Posted May 5, 2020 Baller Share Posted May 5, 2020 @blakeyates Probably depends on which weed. We had Bacopa caroliniana. It actually floated to the surface from the ski boat action. Eventually, we had so much mass of this floating, I couldn't ski the lake for months. It continues to live on the surface. But, with the herbicide, it mostly shriveled, died, and fell to the lake bottom. Eventually, the water had more particulate matter from the decay. One off season later, it cleared up beautifully. We used the oil dry method for the weeds still growing from the lake bottom. We sprayed the floating mass with a dilute solution. After the initial clean up, carp did a great job clearing the new weed growth. That was in a lake not too far from you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller skierjp Posted May 6, 2020 Baller Share Posted May 6, 2020 @jayski I was just saying Round Up for a general term. I actually use Imitator Plus or Kills All with a surfactant but this is only along my boat house and property line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller blakeyates Posted May 8, 2020 Baller Share Posted May 8, 2020 @Zman , thanks for your input. I "think" our weed is hydrilla. It's long and skinny, growing straight up toward the surface. We're thinking maybe Diquat in the shallows and grass carp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller buoyboy1 Posted May 8, 2020 Baller Share Posted May 8, 2020 I regret using grass carp. Since they are untrained, they will take care of your important shoreline vegetation when they are done with the invasive/submerged plants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller A_B Posted May 8, 2020 Baller Share Posted May 8, 2020 Blue Dye is the same as used in food coloring and prevents sunlight from nurishing the weeds. Sequent granules are reasonable and easy to apply. Much safer and prettier than chemicals. We throw a few Sterile Amurs and Tilapia in for good measure. If you have phragmites, invasive Russian cattails, they will choke the common cattail out and create a 10 foot high razor sharp barrier all around the lake. So far, the high % Vinegar/salt/soap mix is keeping them at bay and we haven't had to hit them with the hard chemicals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller BraceMaker Posted May 8, 2020 Baller Share Posted May 8, 2020 @buoyboy1 try a .17 HMR from your deck. The blow up with out ricochet and dump a huge amount of energy into the water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NZswerver Posted May 8, 2020 Share Posted May 8, 2020 As an someone who deals with ag chems on a daily basis you do have to be mindful about what you use. The best result chem method would probably be reglone/diquat. 24hr withholding for swimming. (10days for overhead irrigation) it is a contact killer (disruption of photosynthesis) with no residue. But as someone else said you shouldn’t apply to more than 1/4 of the lake or you will kill your fish from lack of oxygen. The first time we did our lake we used a helicopter 30L/ha reglone with Depthcharge adjuvant. It was cheaper than the injection boom off a boat method but we had some drift onto the crop around the lake ? not ideal, since then we used the injection boom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller igkya Posted June 28, 2020 Baller Share Posted June 28, 2020 Several weeks after using weed killer (2,4D), the weeds are mostly gone/dead, but now we have a foul odor at one end, where most of the weeds were. Anyone experience something similar to this? Any idea what the odor could be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E_T Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 @Horton these guys can take care of any weed problem you have Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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