Will the Carbon Pro come back?

[Drago]

Was talking to a buddy that has an Infinity (for sale now), and it reminded me: will 3 Event ever have a reliable, sustainable 4th manufacturer?

[Horton]

I would be willing to bet an extremely expensive bottle of Scotch that Centurian will never make a tournament boat again

[DW]

Given the amount of consolidation most segments are seeing (think big box hardware, grocery, etc.) very low probability of that. More likely would be shrinking to 2. That would begin to solve @MS complaints on different feel behind different boats.

[Garn]

Did Centurian not sell enough to make it financially viable?

[ski6jones]

Correct Craft can market Carbon Pro or Nautique 200 in addition to the new boat. The choice seems pretty obvious.

[Bruce_Butterfield]

@ms will just complain about something else if there are fewer boats.

But back on topic, there has been a good number of “4th tier” ski boats over the years that have not been sustainable in spite of having unique and positive designs. Off the top of my head there has been American skier, ski supreme, ski ray, tige, epic (Toyota), infinity, ski centurion. Unfortunately it’s a tough and expensive path to break into the top 3. We are fortunate to keep that many.

[KRoundy]

What would a fourth manufacturer bring to the market that is noticeably different than the big 3?

[oldjeep]

Affordability?

[Orlando76]

Better looks?

I mean MC looks ok but the looks are going downhill overall.

[KRoundy]

What would "affordable" be? You can buy a well-cared-for / flawless used ski boat for $30 - $40K. If I were to start making $40K new ski boats that looked "classic" would you buy my Roundhill Ski Machine or a slightly used big 3?

 

I don't want to be a stick in the mud, but I just wonder about the viability of someone making new / cheaper boats. Would people really buy them? @Horton has a new poll that shows just how long skiers keep using older boats - they just don't really need to be replaced. Fiberglass and gelcoat last forever as long as you don't do something crazy. The components that make up the boat systems are pretty standard and can be repaired or upgraded cheaply and easily. Even if you kill an engine you can buy a shortblock, bolt your old components on there and you are good to go for 10 more summers in your Ski Nautique, MasterCraft or Malibu. How could a "new" cheap boat compete with that?

[LoopSki]

the carbon pro has already proven itself and people bought them. it must not have made financial sense to keep it going. ive been to the centurion plant, and my take is that they dont want to dedicate the room and manpower. those resources are better allocated to the surf barges that bring in higher margins. make it in china !

[6balls]

The manufacturers are better off on producing higher margin machines, we skiers needing a bargain are better off buying used big 3.

 

Similarly automakers don't make much per unit on their cheaper offerings. Some of those offerings historically, tho, have sold enough volume to make up for it. Ski boats not so much.

[Horton]

The answer to this thread now part of the FAQ

[Drago]

So is it safe to say there will never be a 4th again (Not even a twin outboard)?

Will it be reduced to 2? If so, who drops us?

[RAWSki]

@Drago. Centurion was as close as we will get to a 4th serious boat. National promo program and all . There were times in the past with many more approved AWSA boats but not with tournament programs. I think there will be 3 choices for a while but if I had to guess, Malibu would be the next to drop.

[Chad_Scott]

I would bet against Malibu being the next to drop. They are as dedicated to three event skiing as anyone. Obvious by the number of events they have hosted over the past several years. I look for them to remain committed to 3 event skiing

[aupatking]

Throughout all of the trends, from kneeboards to wakeboards to wakeskates, and now wake surfing, 3 event has stayed constant. While the margins are less, the market is constant, albeit shrinking, it’s still a constant market, any manufacturer dropping out would seem short sighted.

[Jordan]

I don't see the segment dropping to two. Given that Mastercraft has a market cap of over 400 million and Malibu has a market cap of 800 million, I don't see them getting taken over and neither of them are going to take out Correct Craft.

 

Conceivably, one of them could stop producing a three event boat but even though it isn't the most profitable boat that any of these companies build, it is core to the identity, brand and history of Correct Craft and Mastercraft. Malibu came out with their recently, so I'll side with @Chad_Scott on their plans.

 

[Drago]

MB was a good boat. Supreme. American Skier. Infinity...

[swc5150]

As long as the PS, SN/200 and TXi are providing positive contribution margins to their respective companies, they will continue to be produced. It may be a niche market, but it's a market nonetheless. Brand recognition and reputation of the big 3 pretty much makes impossible for a new player to break into this market.

[6balls]

May sound stupid, but some skiers get older and decide to buy a wake boat. The ski boat brand loyalty usually has them buying the same brand wake barge.

[Orlando76]

I’m not going to say any names because I’ll get boo’d off this forum with infinite pandas but I think the larger iconic brand will drop out first. They are money makers and we are going to be too small of a market for them.

[BraceMaker]

I think all three brands have something going for them - which is certain key dealerships, certain key team members, and certain geographical regions that they play in. To see a company like MC or Nautique or Malibu drop their three event boat you'd have to look at who all of those key players are and where they would go.

 

That said you could see ski boat line up die very quickly if a few key links in that chain went away such as big marinas switching to a different line (like imagine if Action watersports went to Nautiques?)

 

 

 

[Nando]

@Orlando76, you may as well have named names and though I hate to say it as I'm one of their long-time, loyal guys, I think you're right on the money (pun intended).

[Weappa]

One change in the ownership or top management of a manufacturer could easily result in the discontinuance of an entire product or brand, likely due to profit and loss of that product or brand. Happens all the time in the corporate world, especially publicly traded corporations that have management by objectives goals based on quarterly and annual timeframes.

 

6balls has a point with brand loyalty and using the ski boat market as an entry into a more lucrative barge market. But that's a long transition period that would be easy for a quarter to quarter profit based manufacturer to dismiss.

[swc5150]

If you count the Australian TXR, both CC and Bu have 2 DD boats on the market. I bet no one would've guessed that a year ago. Seems like good sign for our market to me.

[bigskieridaho]

It’s a shame if they don’t build it again. The big 3 have great wakes, but the CP was by far the best.

[dvskier]

@bigskieridaho Don't you remember all the folks who wanted an open bow CP? There was a lot of dialogue on BOS about this, also some negative comments on tracking in the course. I was always happy to ski behind a CP fwiw.

It would seem that the 2019 Nautique fills the bill nicely.

[bigskieridaho]

@dvskier Yep I was one of them who wanted an open bow CP. I do agree tho that they had superb wakes, but driving them was not great for tracking. The 2019 SN does fit the bill, but the price isn’t as friendly.

[Rednucleus]

I have seen no mention of Sanger Boats in this discussion. I bought the open bow DLX in 95 and it was a decent boat in the course. Looks like their DXII could be mentioned here as a nice ski tug?

[6balls]

@Rednucleus they look cool, go fast, track well....but have a pretty firm wake and honestly the one I footed a number of times with my buddy on they handle like a barge other than in a straight line. They do handle chop pretty well given the v-entry.

I also felt build quality in his boat was not up to the standards of the big 3.

[gregy]

Years ago I asked a representative from one of the big three about a low end boat. The response was something like if x number of spots are available for molds each year why not build the boats that provide the highest profits.

 

Guess if you want a low end boat go used like someone else said. Lots of good used boats out there. Leeski put ZO on an American skier and I put in on a 99 Malibu.

[Stevie Boy]

I know of several people that have switched to another make of boat and several commercial ski sites that are thinking really hard about which way they should go, especially here in the United Kingdom, not going to get into politics, but the exchange rate at the moment from Pounds to US Dollars is going to cripple any organisation looking to buy a new boat, so pricing could play a major role, remember shipping and import duties on top, some organisations may be forced to switch or re- engine the boats that they already have.

I know of one club that chose the latter and are fairly happy with that decision, but obviously when you do get to the situation of having to change, you will face quite a big hit.

If you are a competitor you are going to want to ski behind a boat that you are going to come across at most competitions, but there is a limit to how deep some peoples pockets are, if a number of sites switch to a more affordable boat and put on competitions the mass may follow.

[Dsully]

sangerboats.com/boat/dxii/

[Horton]

@Dsully I do not think the Sanger is in the same league as MasterCraft, Nautique or Malibu in terms of slalom.

[Dsully]

@Horton Agree for shortline high end skiers, but for the average Joe week-end skier it could be a 4th option to look at.

[skierjp]

@Stevie Boy don’t panic, there are already used 2019 Ski Nautques on the market. Nothing says you have to buy brand new. Also, this hull will be around for a while so it’s not like you have to trade every year. Maybe you need to raise the rates to cover the new boat prices. I think someone on this site did a apples to apples price comparison between the top 2 boat manufacturers and they are nearly the same.