Spray oil into cylinder? Yes or no?

[Tdub]

I have been doing this for years on my 2004 SN. But is it really necessary? The more I think about it, what little oil is sprayed in the cylinder only lays on a small portion of the piston and cylinder wall. I do fog the engine while it is running and and sucking in the anti freeze. Thoughts?

 

Cheers.

Tom

[UWSkier]

No. Oil isn't compressible. Bad idea to spray into combustion chamber. Fog is fine.

[A_B]

I use to spray a non-fluid fogging oil in each cylinder and then turn the crank manually with the plugs out. Have not done that for a while.

 

[DanE]

Yes you should, turn the engine a few revs with a socket while the plugs are still out.

That way you will spread the oil film on the cylinder wall.

Will also keep piston rings from getting stuck in the grooves from corroision and carbon buildup.

[BraceMaker]

Fogging is really a carry over from 2 strokes to get lubrication up in there before storage or before restarting an engine thats sat for a while.

 

I'd wager most of you have had a car sit around for months and never thought of fogging it...

 

I do fog down a carb, and I do fog through a TBI - but I don't think I'd bother pulling plugs to fog unless maybe it was sitting a long time, but I'd be more inclined to pull the distributor and spin the oil pump.

[Jetsetr]

FYI- if you use Stabil fogging oil and crank the engine without either removing the plugs or disabling the ignition, the engine MAY start...might get your full attention if you’re not expecting it...

[Jmoski]

I fog my SN Excalibur engine via the spark plug holes and then turn it over by hand distribute. The fogging oil has wax in it that makes it stick to the cylinder walls to prevent rust over the winter.

[DanE]

@BraceMaker I have rebuilt car engines with corrosive damage from sitting unused for extensive periods of time.

[jhughes]

On the new DI motors it seems like getting to the spark plugs would involve pulling the exhaust manifolds. I'm taking the risk that there's enough residual oil in the cylinder honing hashmarks to last 6mo. I stopped doing it on the GT40 a few years ago too.

[MDB1056]

Above advice is good - YES still spray into chambers and turn over a few times with plugs out to distribute. Put plugs back in and ready for Spring. Antifreeze too of course as you already noted you're doing - but your processes should have your engine in good shape for many many years.

[thager]

Total waste of time.

[Ski_Dad]

interesting this topic came up - been thinking about it myself this week - 2nd year owning an inboard - didn't fog last year, but thinking of doing it this year.

 

My motor is EFI / no CATs - Indmar says you can spray through the intake. I just put new plugs in so I mostly wonder if either of these methods are gonna trash my plugs?

 

also considering this stuff for next year - http://www.starbrite.com/item/ez-store-ez-start-gas-storage-additive

[keithh2oskier]

I have never fogged a motor and neither has my dad in the 25 years we have had inboard ski boats. Boats are in a garage with no freezing. Maybe sits for 5 months. I toss some sta-bil in the fuel and will run the engine so its getting the stabilized fuel through the system. But that's about it.

[swc5150]

Has anyone heard of an engine failure due to not fogging? Me neither.

[oldjeep]

I fog project motors that could be setting for years. Fogging a motor that sits for 6 months in the off season is a waste of time.

[thager]

If one insists on oiling the cylinders it makes more sense to do it in the spring just before you start it up.

[oldjeep]

The idea is to stop rust formation in the cylinders - which shouldn't be happening under normal circumstances unless the motor is new or you have a fuel problem that is washing the cylinder walls. or you have a bunch of water in your oil pan

[UWSkier]

Fog via intake. Sta-bil in gas. No need for anti-freeze, just a proper draining. Good to -25F at least and for an 8 month layup.

 

Of course, knowing this crowd, folks probably measure out oil to the milliliter and have their trailer on some sort of oscillating platform to ensure the oil is distributed to the upper side of the cylinder wall and piston (the only way liquid oil is getting up there).

[DanE]

There is a reason PCM puts the recommendation in their winterization manual.

[UWSkier]

Will add caveat not to fog via intake if you have an engine with cats.

[BraceMaker]

@DanE - I agree that its not necessarily a bad idea to do it, I just don't think its all that necessary season by season. If you have a really short season, or really wet storage, or just anticipate not using the boat next season then I'd consider it much more.

[swc5150]

@DanE True, it doesn't hurt, but remember the manuals also goes overboard on the checklist before running the boat each time out as well. Thinking some CYA going on.

[Jmoski]

@oldjeep - in 6 months your experience is the oil won’t drain down via gravity off the cylinder walls and expose them to ambient air (where the ports are open) and a little develop rust?

 

I fog so I don’t lose a little bit of compression each year when the rust gets taken off when you start it in the Spring.

 

I want to retain all 330hp I have, but I’d love to skip this step as it’s a hassle pulling the plugs.

[Ajskier]

@Tdub if it makes you feel any better, I always spray some stabil fogging oil into each cylinder and then crank it over a couple times. I know it is probably over kill, but I would rather be safe than sorry.

[jhughes]

It's my understanding that cylinder linings are pretty darn impregnated with oil. They have to deal with millions of explosions –explosions– –millions– without wearing out. A little ambient air over 6mo, 4 of them being absolutely frigid, probably won't hurt.

[BrennanKMN]

I fog mine. It makes me feel better. Is it needed, probably not, but for the 5 minutes it takes for me to do it I am going to continue to do it. Plus it allows me to inspect plugs and wires.

 

@swc5150 Not to start this debate, but has anyone heard of engine failure due to running non-synthetic oil? Me neither. Same concept here.

[oldjeep]

@jmoski I've not ever torn down one of my jeep motors and found rust in them. They sit around more than anything else I own. I'd rather not be pulling my plug wires unless I need to, they are a pain to get at and expensive to replace when you booger one up. They only come off when it is time to change the plugs.

[swc5150]

You won’t get a debate from me, I agree.

[Tdub]

Thanks to all. Jury still out on oiling the cylinders. I always have and the boat still performs like new. Why mess with a good thing.

[MDB1056]

@Tdub -you're a smart man

[Jody_Seal]

Nothing like a well oiled machine!

[EricKelley]

I have never fogged my efi ski boat engines, but has anyone ever run a winterization cocktail(non ethanol fuel, two stroke oil, marvel mystery oil and fuel conditioner) through their ski boat engines. I have done this for years on my mercury racing engines. What you do is disconnect the fuel supply ahead of the fuel pump mix the winterization cocktail in a separate gas can,run a hose from the fuel pump to the can and run the engine on it for several minutes. It lubricates the cylinders and the fuel injectors/fuel pump and ensures there is no ethanol in the engine fuel system.

I have been hesitant to do this with my cat PCM 6 liter because of the 02 sensors and the cats themselves. My racing engines have never had cats or 02 sensors and really don't know if this would be harmful to them. It is recommended by Mercury, Volvo marine etc

 

[andjules]

This thread:

opinions: high

data: low

[oldjeep]

@Eric Kelley - no way I would run all that crap through a fuel injected engine. Fuel system winterization is as follows - put boat in garage with whatever fuel is in it. Start it 6 months later. Works with every engine of every type I own and they all run on E10.

[EricKelley]

Andjules there is no data but facts about what happens to engines and storage. What is important to what you do depends on the climate your boat will be stored in.

Facts

Engine cylinders will develop rust if bare. A film of oil will do a lot to prevent this. If you store your boat in an area with a lot of thermal cycling above and below freezing this likelihood is increased because of moisture that is present when your metal parts warm from freezing to above freezing.(tools and other metals corrode like crazy in my metal storage barn which is not heated or cooled). If your boat resides where it stays almost always above freezing or conversely where it always stays below during freezing risks of corrosion are not nearly as great. I use a bilge heater in all my engine compartments to prevent moisture effects.(mold will form on engine components during the winter in Kentucky). So if you keep your boat sleeping in your heated garage fogging not as important.

 

Fact, water combined with ethanol will result in the precipitation of solids, climate is important with this as well for the reasons just mentioned. The more time your winter layup is the more moisture will be present in your fuel tank. Screens in fuel injectors have metal screens which can be blocked by the precipitates. Blocked injectors not only cause poor performance but can catastrophic mechanical failure of individual cylinders.

[Drago]

Doesn't the cylinder wall always have a coating of oil on it? Isn't that one of the places the oil goes from the crankcase?

[oldjeep]

@"Eric Kelley" I have a higher cylinder index than most and store lots of vehicles, boats, snowmobiles, toys and seasonal power equipment. Something near 100 gallons of e10 sitting for 6 months at a time winter and summer. I treat them all the same, use them when needed and fill with fuel when they run out. We've had e10 in mn since i was old enough to drive in the mid 80's. Every year I see all the forum nonsense about e10 somehow magically making water in fuel and 10 kinds of snake lubricant to "fix" it. Cant say that i know a single person who uses any of it. As for the cold, there is pretty much no humidity in the winter. It gets to - 20F here and people run whole house humidifiers because there is pretty much no humidity in cold air.

[Bruce_Butterfield]

@oldjeep, a wise man once told me that the complexity of your life is determined by the number of spark plugs you have. Any truth to that?

[oldjeep]

Not all that complex, just busy.

[BraceMaker]

Haha the spark plug index.

@Bruce_Butterfield

Im at 44 and 3 glow plugs currently. So I guess thats a moderate level of complexity.

 

Ive used 12 of the plugs and all 3 glow plugs so far today.

[JackQ]

Many years ago I bought a 67 corvette from the original owner ( an engineer at Isky Cams), the car was run into at a stop light, and he no longer wanted to on it. He would put up the car during the winter, and would take 10w oil and pour a trickle of oil into carb/throttle body until the car was smoking heavily for a minute or two, then immediately shut down. His rational was it coated the intake valve stems, cyl walls and exhaust system with thin coat of oil. I have done this for 30 years, just don’t poor so fast or so much that you hydro lock a cylinder. A different approach but effective.

[EricKelley]

@oldjeep ethanol does not make water it absorbs water and precipitates solids. If you read my post carefully you will see that I said people in climates that are below freezing most days have less worries about moisture than in climates where temperatures cycle above and below freezing. I have seen multiple gas engines that get shut down here because of pink crystals plugging things up. Most of these people are the usual boaters who do little maintenance. There is a reason why Mercury and Volvo marine engineers recommend this maintenance, it covers all bases for all climates. It is smart to have good reasons for things you do. Obviously what you have done to take care of your boats and equipment has worked well.

[oldjeep]

@Eric Kelley At the risk of belaboring this. Fuel tanks do not breath in and out enough to be adding additional moisture laden air to the fuel tank when the moisture has precipitated out of the air that is in the tank. Unless your fuel is stored in an open bowl, then temperature fluctuations have nothing to do with water introduction into the fuel. More often than not water in fuel is from buying fuel with water in it.

[Dacon62]

Ilmor says no fogging.

 

 

[DangerBoy]

My experience is only with outboards but I ran the same outboard (a '74 Johnson 115) for 40 years before I sold it and I fogged it every winter. The last part of the fogging process included pulling out all the plugs, spraying fogging oil in each cylinder, rurning the flywheel a few times and re-installing the plugs. The place the boat was stored for the winter was cool and damp so it seems the process helped to prevent the insides of the combustion chambers from corroding over the long winters. I would think that doing the same last stage of the fogging process with a 4 stroke couldn't do any harm (unless it could somehow cause harm to a sensor). Yeah, the motor will make a bunch of smoke when you first fire it up in the spring but my 40 years of great results of fogging the same engine I think shows the process certainly doesn't hurt and probably helps keep the engine withstand long periods of inactivity and storage in unfavorable conditions.

 

Now I have an Evinrude E-Tec which is terrific. Just do a couple simple things to tell the computer you want to winterize and if fogs itself and shuts itself off in less than a minute. Sweet. B)

[BraceMaker]

@Drago There is oil below the piston, the piston rings chief role is to keep the oil below and the combustion above. When the piston rings arent doing the job oil gets burnt and combustion gases blow by down into the block.

 

How much oil is held on the cylinder wall when you shut off the engine... not really sure cannot be much.