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best 15 off 32 mph boat


Ridemx59
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What are the best boats for learning to slalom behind. I am new to all this and currently have a txi and skied behind a nautique 196 and a older mastercraft they have a much flatter wake than my boat do I just deal with my boat or get something that is newbie friendly?
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Great question. Private lake or big lake? A lot of inboards are fine with it. I was in similar situation but I’m on a big lake w/ a lot of coves to explore so my info is based off being on a big lake and being on water away from dock majority of the day and the marinas to get gas are spread out too.

From 2012 to October of 2017 i had a 1997 MC ProStar 205. Great family boat and being out on water all day on big lake. I was in between a 2012/13 ProStar 197 or a Malibu TXI. Could not do the Nautique 200 OB due to not as much storage and I believe smaller gas tank and heard it eats up gas faster due to more of the boat is in the water (but heard awesome slalom wake). Many folks from different forums all had similar comments on the TXI is better at slower speeds and all line lengths over the ProStar 197 (but man o man the ProStar 197 is beautiful boat). Big difference in wake between my old MC and my new to me TXI. I ended going with a 2015 6ltr TXI and its awesome, the wake at slower speeds and all line lengths is amazing, the body lines. I’m super happy. Nice storage all around, great wake for my kids, nice size gas tank. I’m in a nice big lake so i go cove to cove, open water skiing, also slalom course on the lake (buddy puts it up back in a cove), we also barefoot, knee board, wakeboard, tube, gonna get few things to wake surf with it too.

Hope that helps @Ridemx59

Respectfully

Moski

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The Centurion wake is about as good as anything that has recently been on the market.

 

I have skied a good bit this year at 30 and 32 mph and the new Prostar wake is very flat. Much better than the 196, a 2008 LXI and my 02 LX. I haven't skied the newest TXI but the previous TXI was very similar to the LXI wake from my perspective. I think the 18 was a brand new hull.

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@Ridemx59 it really depends on your situation and several of the questions already raised before you can get a reasonable answer:

 

- what is your budget?

- Are you on a private lake or public?

- Do you have kids and/or a bunch of gear you need to keep in the boat?

 

If you are mainly slalom on private or small lakes, you can’t beat a ‘97-2009 Nautique.

If it was easy, they would call it Wakeboarding

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I am on a private lake. I just bought a 2017 txi. I do go to public lakes a good amount still. But I am skiing almost every weekend. I have been struggling to do the coarse at 32 mph and I just happened to ski with others this weekend behind their boat and almost ran all 6 on coarse every pass behind a 196 and like a 2004 prostar. I left so disappointed with my txi. I have tried a lot of different things with my boat as I knew it wasn't that great at long line. full tank, minimal gas, weight in bow no weight in bow. If this boat has a shitty ski wake and its a ski boat, I mine as well have a wake/surf boat with a shitty ski wake.
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2017 TXi shouldn't be getting aced by a 2004 Prostar for sure. I agree with @LoopSki on that one. If it was a new Prostar, I'd expect the wake difference to be in favor of the MasterCraft, but even then, at 32 MPH it shouldn't be a completely night-and-day difference.

 

By any chance, are there any other TXis on your lake? Or are you in contact with an area promo guy who might have a 2018 you could ski behind (which should be no different)? I wonder if there's something strange with your particular hull. It's not common, but once in a while boats don't come out of the molds exactly right and need some tweaks to things like transom hook. I know of a surf boat that Malibu ended up taking back to add hook due to a porpoising condition.

 

Does your boat have a Wedge?

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Big budget: new ProStar (my fav boat)

Medium budget: Carbon Pro

Smaller budget: TSC3 196 Nautique

Tight budget: TSC1 "bubble back" 196 Nautique OR 1991-1997 ProStar 190 (I think I'm in the minority that prefers the 1995-1997 hull over the 1991-1994 hull)

 

I have never skied behind a new-gen TXI, but I sure did like the wake of the old one.

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Didn’t want to talk crap about your TXI on a public forum , but since you already did ... sell it , get a surf boat for the big lakes , and a 196 or newer pro star for Ski West. Or man up , moto guys are supposed to like jumps ?. Your boat was a promo , so I doubt you can make it any better ?
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@Ridemx59 to answer your question of what’s best to learn behind my experience is 14+ Prostar, Carbon Pro and Ski Nautique 196 are the flattest wake so could be considered the easiest to learn on.

One of our ski crew has a TXI (2012 I think) and I feel the 15 & 22 wake to be bigger then the other boats listed however it is soft. When I focus on keeping the ski on edge behind the boat I don’t notice the wake. When I cross behind the boat with a flat ski i will catch air off the wake. Similar to what @IGski said.

So it’s been my experience that the “flat wakes” are more forgiving but the TXI required better technique.

 

Just something to think about.

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@Ridemx59 I ski at 34mph 22-32’ most behind my 08 196 and my neighbors 17 TXI, we feel the wakes are fairly comparable. The wakes are better than the 09 MC 190 and 05 MC 197 we also ski behind. For our ski partner that ski 30 mph the wakes of the 196 and TXI are noticeably better than the MasterCrafts.

 

Are other factors changing between the boats and sites? Water depth, Temperature, boat loading and such?

 

I agree the 6.0L in the 17 TXI doesn’t seem to have the power it should. I do like the rest of the boat though.

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I hate to say this but while wakes are different from the different boats the 17 TXI wake isn't a bad one and you should be able to ski behind that as well as any of the other boats you have experience with. A little coaching could make as much difference as a new boat.
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Of the newer model, big three.....the Malibu definitely has the biggest wake at slow speed, long line. We love our prostar, and the Nautiques (200 and 2019) are very good. I ski behind a 196 often, and its not much behind the newer boats....better than the newer Malibu. I've been behind the Carbon Pro and its very good also.
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@Ridemx59 Another difference that could be a factor is speed control. The two older boats have horsepower and likely have Perfect Pass. Your Txi has a ton of horsepower, and ZeorOff. Over 100 more horsepower and ZO can be a challenge to you versus the soft pull of lower HP and PP.

ZO will punish you more if you are loading early, or pulling long, IMHO.

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@oldjeep Kinda, sort of. There is a thing called momentum, which equals mass times speed. So, more mass, the harder a boat can be on a skier. But, I will let @Than_Bogan explain more, if he agrees.

I'm an engineer too, but I retired. I am resting those brain cells.

But, no doubt an older PP boat is a softer pull. At least that is what I feel.

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I have a 2018 Prostar and half of a SN200 (half owner that is). I ski regularly behind both of them. When I first skied my Prostar I didn't like it at all compared to the SN200. Maybe it was some mental buyer's remorse. I think that people's skiing styles affect how they perceive the wakes of the boats. I have no good data to back this up...just a thought. I tend to have my knees a little more firm through the wakes and let up on my pull a bit at the second wake sometimes. I think I tend to skip off the wake of the SN200 and land in the flat. For some reason I think the Mastercraft doesn't feel as good when I'm skiing that way. I think maybe the wakes are flatter but wider and I end up hitting the second wake. When I keep the ski on edge I don't notice a difference. They're both fantastic boats. I ski 32-34 mph 15 to 22 off. I used to think that a 2004 Malibu Lxi had the best wake ever... and then a SN196. I think the new Prostar and SN200 definitely have them beat though. Just my opinion.
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You are going to drive yourself crazy trying to buy your way to a better game. The TXI is just fine. I'm not a good skier but have realized that if you can work on your technique you simply won't notice much of a difference between most decent boats. I used to believe the boat made the difference but after getting a bit better I simply can't tell when I'm behind my 200 or another boat.
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At 22 off/34 mph, I don't notice a difference between my '03 LXi and my buddie's '17 Prostar. He doesn't either (of course he could be lying). He had a mid 90's Nautique before. The wake on that was pretty rough by comparison (similar to the '95 Response I used to have). However, crossing the wake on edge totally smoothed it out.

 

Tried a couple runs behind another friend's 2013 Response TXi. I'm not one to complain, but given the choice, I will stick with the other two options ;).

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If you have good body position at 34/22 I don't think the wake between the LXi and prostar is that different. At 34/22 I never had trouble with the 197. At 30 mph there is definitely a difference at 22 off between the boats though. Still with good body position it shouldn't impact you but as you are learning there is definitely a difference.
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I will trade you my 06 LXI for you TXi :).

 

Learning to ski the course with a smaller wake makes a big difference....but with that said, good form and confidence will trump the wake size. A 196 does put out a great wake especially when all the extra weight in the rear is out. I do like the wake of a 196 better than my RLXi, but the additional room and versatility for me is way more important.

 

Have you tried to reprop? Do you remove your seat when skiing? And like @Zman stated above skiing with Zero Off is a HUGE difference between PP. Try skiing with your ZO settings at "Light" and A1. The change in having a softer setting will not help your wake, but should give you additional time to get in correct body position, and a little extra time to recover from bad body positions.

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When we were looking for a boat we tried a Response 2003 LXI. I used to love that wake... demo... hated it. Felt like a huge hit at 28 mph. One week later tried the Response Txi 2013. Had huge hopes because I really like Malibu's lines. Couple of passes.... really didn't like it. Skied the SN200 later that afternoon. Felt amazing. I'd be very curious to try those again a few years later now after I've improved my technique.... I bet they'd all feel better... maybe negligible difference. Again... I think the ability to keep the ski on edge and forget about the wakes... as well as different skiing styles leads to widely varied opinions as to which wakes are "the best". I think the answer is... there is no "best"... but there may be a "best for your style". Just my amateur opinion.
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You out there @Chad_Scott ? Something is definitely wrong with this boat. The boat wanders around in the course even with shot bags up front. And the wake is sub par behind the rooster tail. Maybe you have seen this previously with the new hull design ? Hopefully there Is a fix for this ? This boat was a promo from Alabama , so Brett felt pretty good about buying it without a test ride. After spending $65k , it is understandable that he is a bit bummed out.
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This is ridiculous. The boat DOESN'T MATTER! Go to a ski school for a few days. Whatever boat they have will be fine to get you a pass or two when you improve your skills.

 

Your skills have a lot of room for improvement given your level. While you are an exceptional skier at 32/15, you aren't anywhere near any limits. Certainly not limited by a boat wake. I remember wakes that were actually bad (Nautique 2001) but we skied and improved behind them. Deal with the excellent wake you already have.

 

Any score differential between modern boats is all an artifact of your mind. Just get over it and get through it. Better yet, improve your skills to get to the shorter lines and higher speeds where your boat rocks.

 

I'm bitter because this attitude killed the MC 197, the best trick boat ever - while being an awesome slalom boat! But enough people bad mouthed it to change the consensus. Now, listen to people say you can't learn behind that boat - and watch the college kids pb behind my 197. Seriously, don't let the boat get to your head.

 

Change the prop to optimize where you are today. Put the stock prop on for when you get to deep shortline. Ski a lot with whatever boat you have and smile after every set.

 

Eric

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@eleeski I'm grateful that there was such a push from people about the 197 wake because it led MC to make the new ProStar. They made a very focused effort to make the wake great for longline and slow speed skiers. I ski at 55kph and the wake doesn't matter much to me but for the wife and kids who ski at 37-43kph the wake matters a lot. I think it is great that the market is demanding GREAT low speed slalom wakes. In what other sport do learners have to suffer the toughest conditions? We need to look after them to foster the sport and we especially have to look after the wife and kids.

 

I think it is fantastic that manufacturers are making much more spacious boats with better wakes.

 

I get where @eleeski is coming from about the loss of an awesome trick wake. I feel the same about barefoot wakes. I would love a boat which had both the best slalom wake and the best barefoot wake (at all speeds). Actually I'd also love it to have a great surf wake, turn like a flightcraft, be quiet and economical on fuel, fast, able to pull 6 men on doubles from a deep start and still look as good as the best Prostar. Personally, I don't currently care about what trick wake that boat produced, but then I would really like a small kneeboard wake for the kids and a good kneeboard trick wake for me and maybe the kids might trick one day so maybe I would care.

 

Seriously though, if somebody could make a genuine slalom/surf/barefoot boat which was about as good as the current prostar on slalom wake and was genuinely good for surf and barefoot there would be a bumper market for it. Problem is everything with boats is a compromise and I'm yet to even hear of a boat which makes a good wife/kid/learner speed slalom wake and competes with crossovers at surf and interior room. Seems like a unicorn.

 

So Eric I hear you, but I would not have been happy to own a 197 but a Prostar is currently on my wish list.

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The thoughts from some who sucks at course skiing is with a decent skill set you should be able to ski behind anything...in fact, skiing behind a “more difficult” wake would/should make you a better skier. I’m sure any of the open skiers could rip a 39 off pass behind my Brendella (probably not with me driving though!).

 

A bit of a thread drift here: I would LOVE to see a spec ski for the open rated skiers (or anyone who wanted to compete in a “spec ski” class) “pick your length, here’s your ski, 2 passes to get the feel-start at what ever line length you’re comfortable at”. Would really showcase your skill set...a mid range ski rather than the super exotic competition skis- equivalent to a Radar Katana or something on that line...

Know it would NEVER happen...but would be fun to watch and ski (that’s what this is supposed be about-right???) throw some $$ in and make it a paid exhibition...

 

Sorry for the drift...flame away-taking cover...

 

 

 

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