New extremely portable slalom course

[Garn]

If it can be mounted to a tower no one, no matter how big of an idiot, is going to get shot. But on the other hand, if someone is that stupid, maybe they should get shot. :)

[UWSkier]

Looking forward to hearing first-hand reviews, then hoping for different mounting options. I'm tall and this would be in my sight lines, but if it could be mounted low on the deck in front of the windshield by my GPS puck, now we're talking.

[OldboyII]

In the barely possible event that I'll have my own boat, I will buy this course simulator with no prior thinking.

[torontoboater]

I'm just like swc5150 - I am squarely the target audience and very interested in this. I have three young kids and no other course skiers on my home public lake to help install and remove a portable course. And the public course we used to use on a neighbouring lake (which had been there for 20 years) was just shut down due to NIMBYism. I would love an easy course alternative on my home lake that this would offer. The automatic floating course that is in development would also be great (and probably better) but it seems that option is many years away.

[Chef23]

I think it looks very cool. I agree that the risk of getting shot is very minimal and if you stand up in the boat and get hit while underway you deserve it.

[vernonreeve]

Erik Berghiller (one of the inventors) gave me permission to post his response to my question about how it knows when to start.

 

"We're still testing out the best way to start the course.

But for now it works like this:

The driver makes a signal to the skier when it's time to pull left for gates (raise a hand). The skier pulls out to the left and waits. The driver then pushes the start button and a strong LED lights up, it shines for three seconds. The moment the LED goes out it’s time for the skier to pull right to make it thru the point where the gates usually would be and be right on time to turn at the first splash on the right.

But I want to clarify that we're still testing out the best way on how to solve it and unfortunately I can not disclose all the details. "

 

[Wish]

Let the negative comments begin. (sarcasm). Maybe some brainstorming instead.

[Drago]

Could just start on the left, pull out, wait for the splash and go. Would either need 7 shots or pull a Rico.

[BraceMaker]

That'd be a good mode. Be cool to have a zero ball with adjustable timing so you could turn that forwards and back for gate turn in time.

[One_Ski]

@vernonreeve - I think that's a great idea for initial entry into the slalom course; keeping it simple is likely to be the best approach. The proposed price is just slightly more than the one-year membership fee for my local slalom club -- I have to drive over an hour to get there, and sometimes wait in line to ski. I have a portable slalom course, but avoiding the time and difficulty of setting it up and taking it down makes this an exciting alternative. I can set up, take down, and ski through a portable slalom course - I think I have the wherewithal to keep from getting shot by one of the paint balls. I strongly endorse pushing this through to production.

[epnault]

@swc5150 - You know I am always IN when skiing is involved.

[UWSkier]

I'm totally in for something like this too. On the start, the LED should work. I think it'd be cool if it could illuminate when it hit the imaginary 55s, then go out as it cleared the entry gate.

[Wish]

So we all pull out at different times and diff intensities for diff line lengths and speed to get high on the boat, glide and time our turn in as the boat pulls away and the rope travels back to CL (GUT stuff). There really is no way without a buoy marker to establish this pendulum rythm when we are using the bouy and its relationship to the boat to time all of this. But, the start could be determined by the skier. Let's say the LED signals at speed and straight direction and skier is just left of CL. Have some sort of trigger that when the skier makes his first move left for the pull out, the stystem starts. Could be a passenger switch or a foot switch for driver. Higher tech would be a switch triggered by the rope movement or a sensor that detects the left hand direction of the skier. This makes it so the skier can still use same pull out and glide path used in a slalom course when skiing one. The reality is we time our movements with the boat, the rope swing and rope path to go around buoys. If the skier can be on charge of that first movement to the left, then they are in control of the pendulum and the splash will just be where it would be if it was a real course. Hope that makes sense but to me it's the only way to get a fare start that best simulates a real course.

[Chef23]

I think what @UWSkier said about some sort of LED to light when the boat hits the 55s. I understand the point @Wish makes but we need to remember that at least right now I don't see this as a replacement for a traditional slalom course but a way to simulate it and enjoy a challenge when free skiing.

 

The concept of a sensor maybe integrated to a jump switch would be cool but would greatly add to complexity and cost. A passenger or foot switch would be pretty simple and effective. Having an LED Flash for the entrance gates would be good. I generally turn in earlier but I am sure I could make it work if it was the only option.

 

This is a very cool concept. Hopefully the guys working on it are watching this thread for some ideas. Although if it is this fleshed out they may have already thought of many of them.

 

 

[ScottScott]

I would think lights flashing at a couple points after a start button, all properly timed according to speed in conjunction with the firing of the turn buoy markers. 1st a light to flash when the start button is pressed, after a couple seconds a pre 55 at a set distance ahead of when the nose of the boat would be even with the 55s (maybe 20',) then at the 55s, then at the gates. Considering the timing vs speed already involved in programming the firing of the turn markers, that doesn't seem to be too complicated...... ? That should set things up for me pretty good. Skiing at various speeds 28-32mph....at 30mph I usually pull out when the nose of the boat is about 10' ahead of the 55s, at 28 I would be a little closer to the 55s, 32mph would be more like 15' ahead (of course all of that varies with wind direction.)

[OldboyII]

As an option the system may be engaged by skier.

For example. There might be a sensor which controls rope angle: skier pulls out and angle sensor triggers a system. Green light or beep goes on and this is a signal to go from pullout to first buoy through imagined gate.

[swc5150]

I honestly don't care if it has a gate system. I'm fine treating it like I did the course when I first started as a kid...just use the first turn ball as a starting point and skip the gate. Maybe it can even be made to shoot a left ball first? Everyone's pointed out this is no replacement for an actual course, so no need for it to exactly simulate one. I just want the splashes to be close to where a turn ball would be, both for timing and for something to aim at while open water skiing.

 

More importantly, my wife likes the idea, since she will no longer have the fear of hitting a buoy, or lining up for entrance gates...not to mention assist in dragging the EZ out of the lake. This is more about just making slalom fun than chasing shorter lengths. And it costs less than the sales tax we're paying on our boats:) Can't wait!

[jcamp]

Or we could just make entry gates not required in tournaments.

 

Just kidding.

 

Sorta.

[Wish]

Agee this is no replacement for a slalom course and am just as excited that it isn't. My only point was that if we are basically on a pendulum, it would be easier on the skier to trigger the start of it with the pull out. Imagine if you held a weight hanging straight down from a string and had to push it left to get it to swing back to the top of the pendulum on the right just after a random signal to do so in order to meet an exact spot and time at the top. Not easy. No imagine if the push to the left triggered the same spot and time to appear on the right. With little practice, you'd hit that spot every time.

[vernonreeve]

A rope sensor would be ideal. It could sense when the rope was half way to center line at speed it would activate, then when the rope passed through center at speed, it would shoot the projectile. Or possibly sooner depending on trial and error of testing.

This would apply to both directions.

It wouldn't matter when the skier pulled out, and would automatically stop if the skier was tired or crashed or whatever.

[Wish]

@vernonreeve good idea

[BraceMaker]

I like the idea of being able to call for your bird, but dont think rope angle would be that useful. Boat turning angles the rope. Dont want to trigger it. You could use similar tech to a red light ambulance trigger with a UV light strobe on the bridle but driver triggered is fine. Set your speed on the unit and all it needs is to start a timer, turn on a kight that switches off when the boat hits the 55s or blinks three times the third being the 55s and fire one to the left ideally with a way to turn that forwards and backwards a few seconds. Thatd be awesome.

[Wish]

Few observations after watching vid and pulling screen shots. It seems it does not fire until skier is close to or at CL so a rope angle indicator could trigger the start by simply passing CL leaving the start 100% up to the skier and his/her own style of gate set ups. No 55s or entrance gates signals required as long as skier starts on the left.

 

It shoots them a good bit forward of the boat which I'd think allows driver to see them hit which could be beneficial for safety as well as lessoning the already minute chance of getting shot by one from the inside.

 

[vernonreeve]

I mentioned "at speed" for the rope angles so it would know the skier is actually trying to cross the course with enough speed to go around the buoy. If the boat is turning, the skier is normally not trying to cross the wakes with any kind of speed. However, the driver should have a master on/off switch (and a light the skier could see) so both driver and skier know everything is good to go.

[UWSkier]

You guys are so classic BoS over-complicating it. :)

 

Driver trigger with some sort of signal to the skier that it's triggered is all that's really needed. Don't need angle sensors, strain gauges, etc.

 

Can't wait to hear feedback from those who test it out!

[Wish]

@UWSkier you will when your in your glide not really knowing when it's gonna fire. It's essential to know when and where to start the pendulum. If there is a tigger in the boat that can be tripped when driver or passenger see skier hit CL that would work and it's simple. But I guarantee you it will take a whole lot longer tying to figure out when to pull out and when to turn back in after the system tells u it's gonna start shooting soon..but how soon.

[Horton]

@Wish and everyone else... you guys seem to have a lot of opinions about a system that somebody else developed and you haven't seen yet. Just left the product rollout and let's see how it works.

[Wish]

wait, you want us to not have opinions on a new product we have not seen or developed?. That does not seem to be the case with the SN Club 200 or the 2019 Nautique threads before they were rolled out. But ok..I'll just say it's cool and be done.

 

[MNshortliner]

@UWSkier I’m with you. This is made out to be overly thought. I think it’s the greatest idea I have seen in a while.

[Horton]

@wish in both cases I imagine the manufacturer feels a bit browbeaten. It's got to be a nightmare from a marketing perspective to have a whole narrative about a product disseminated out to the public with partial or incorrect information.

[Wish]

That's gonna make for some very very short threads. But that makes some sense

[Lars]

Lots of complicated suggestions!

 

I like the LED light idea too, Nice and simple. Would be nice to know when it's coming though, maybe a few 'pre staging' blinks to help. Sure it'll take a few passes to figure outt the timing but once you know when you should make your cut, should be a non issue.

[jercrane]

@Horton welcome to marketing in the modern era.

[6balls]

Kudos to the inventors.

If the LED is on for 3 seconds...and I like to pull out after one Mississippi and someone else pulls out harder and waits for 2 Mississippi...that's all it takes.

Use it a few times, and figure out when to pull out for your, turn in at the appropriate speed and you are off to the races. Sounds fun.

[ErikBerghiller]

Hi Ballers!

 

Thank you guys for the feedback, we’re super stoked to see that so many of you ballers are excited about the OffCourse™!

 

Here’s a couple of answers to some of your questions. There will also be an FAQ up and running on our website soon. We’re super excited to share the OffCourse™ project here on BOS as the process moves forward, so stay tuned!

 

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@keithh2oskier

“I would be scared the @ROBOTs would turn and start firing directly at me. No need to get a nut shot with a paintball. “

 

-We’ve spent a lot of resources on making the OffCourse™ as safe as possible. It is mechanically blocked from turning any other way than slightly forward from the boat crew and the skier. And even if you shall always use the stop button when it’s time to stop skiing, the OffCourse™ is programed to stop automatically once your speed is under 25 mp/h. It also has two hatches that mechanically block the barrels while driving slowly or standing still. They open automatically at 15 mp/h.

 

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@jhughes

“If you think about it, the 55s and the gate are just timing cues. You could almost have those be a light on the boat (configurable) that blinks when the 55s are X feet from the boat and then again when the gates are at a certain point on the boat. Then the GPS can start firing balls out from there.”

 

-We’re currently testing out the best possible way to start the OffCourse™ to get the timing right. I see that a few of our alternatives been up for discussion here. We can’t disclose more details yet, but in the spirit of @Horton we’re trying not to over engineer this thing. Simple and fun.

 

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@lundberg

“I'd like to see an option to mount this on a tower. That would be way better from a visibility standpoint. The way they show it right now you can't even have a mirror.”

 

- In operation mode the OffCourse™ is tilted slightly forward (not in attached picture) which will give your mirror the space it needs. However, some older mid-mounted mirrors need to be moved a little bit to the right. Our goal is to make a tower compatible version as well.

 

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@Wish

”24 shots and I'm guessing easy to refill. Says biodegradable projectiles. I would think keeping the boat dead level would be a huge factor.”

 

-We thought so too, therefore the OffCourse™ is equipped with a bubble level and an easy to use adjustment gadget. When you’re up at speed you just make sure that the OffCourse™ is leveled and push start.

 

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@aspski

”One issue I see with this is if you aren't in perfectly flat conditions it would be tough to see where the ball hits. Even in the video it doesn't look to be the most visible thing. Maybe from the skiers perspective its more clear.”

 

-In fact, a rugged water surface makes the projectiles impact angle steeper and therefore the splash becomes larger in non-flat conditions. And like you said, from the skiers prospective you won’t miss it.

 

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Thanks again for all excitment here. If you like the OffCourse™ show your support by clicking the interest button on our website or better yet, place a pre-order!

 

All the best!

 

Erik Berghiller | Product Developer

Rodics Innovation

 

 

 

[jercrane]

@ErikBerghiller thanks! Great info. Thanks for putting in the time to deal with the peanut gallery here. I love your approach. Simple will always beat complex. Always

 

Very excited to see this become a thing. Best of luck.

[Ed_Johnson]

Seems to me the easiest thing would be for the Driver or Observer to push a button to fire the first shot as the skier crosses the centerline in what would have been the gate position and the system automatically takes over from there, according to boat speed via GPS. That's usually when most skiers change focus from Gate position to 1 ball, and would be easy to locate the splash.

 

 

[BraceMaker]

@Ed_Johnson i wouldnt want that. My wife doesnt even like to adjust the speed control let alone try to time this out in a meaningful way.

 

Might seem people are being backseat engineers, but if you are developing a product you would think this is all good information.

[Bookm_dano]

I like this thing and I might wind up having one. Sounds like the designers don't mind reading over all these brainstorm sessions and I think they are smart enough to decide which ideas are feasible/cost effective and which ones are overkill.

At my meager level, the flashing lights would be fine for course entry. Probably would want three to indicate the 55s and three for the gate.

 

 

[skibug]

@ErikBerghiller Kudos to your innovation and commitment to the sport. I think your invention opens up the sport to a ton of big water skiers and that is what the sport needs. This may have the single most impact on growing the sport than we have seen in a long time.

 

I remember, as a kid free skiing on a public lake, joking with my ski friends about how cool it would be if you could just make buoys "pop up" as you were skiing so you could turn them. This is that!!! So cool!!

[eleeski]

@ErikBerghiller This might be the coolest thing ever! Details are irrelevant. It's the gateway!

 

If this gets enough exposure, I might have to restart my ski club.

 

Eric

[torontoboater]

@ErikBerghiller - thanks for responding on this board with answers to questions. It seems like an amazing product and could certainly be a game changer for public lake skiers like me without regular access to a ski course. And I shared the link with the other members of our ski club (who were forced to shut down our ski course last year) and they are all very interested as well! Let us know when further updates are provided to your site or product developments

[Garn]

If it was mounted to my windshield, and I have a tower on my boat with racks that other "toys" are hanging on, wouldn't my tower be in the way?

[braindamage]

@ErikBerghiller will there be a tower mount option?

[UWSkier]

@braindamage he mentioned above that that's a goal. Would be reason enough to put a tower on my boat.

[mlange]

For people like me and my crew that are stuck on a public lake with no course access this would be nothing short of a game changer. Very exciting.

 

However, I gotta say that $2500 is well north of what I'd be willing to pay and I'm usually pretty loose with the cash when the boat or skiing comes into the discussion. $1500 would be about my trigger point.

 

Hopefully the cost can come down.

 

LOVE THE IDEA!

[moski]

@ErikBerghiller and @vernonreeve —— I have a 2015 Malibu TXI, but i keep the windshield always open since my 2 kids go up to bow. QUESTION - Can your device fit on the boat with the windshield open???

 

I sometimes have up to a second family in our boat too. But man this would be awesome to have.

 

i am like the others. Fantastic idea for us guys on a public lake. A lot of skiers out there on big lakes in the world like myself and others that have chimed in on big lakes and I agree with them, be great to have for us dads wanting to hit ski course as well as kids and wife.....

I’m on a great big lake with a lot of coves. Be great to crank it on and go skiing anywhere on the lake whether in the main channel on calm day or in one of the many coves. My 2 kids (11 yr old daughter and 9 yr old son) would enjoy this and give them and myself targets to ski around wherever and whenever = awesome idea.

My dad’s buddy has a slalom course hidden in a cove but lately has to take it up before he goes home due to the asshole neighbor (long story). I was down at lake at different times than him this year and only skied course 2 times last year it was maybe 5 times. In the past he would leave it up from late spring till fall and we would go hit the course. But now the neighbor in the area being a dummy.

 

Anyway again, this would be awesome to be able to ski a course where ever you are on the big lake. GREAT IDEA guys for our sport. I know i would enjoy it with my family like the others on here as well, let us know when to purchase :-)

 

Respectfully,

Moski

[VONMAN]

I think to take the load off the driver and spotter. There should be nine different settings to launch the ball that the skier picks. And a +/- setting for width. Just kidding, I think it's a great idea that will evolve into a easy to use product for free skiing.

[ScottScott]

Actually......along the line of what @vonman said.....how hard would it be to have a setting to modify the width to have a mini course?

[VONMAN]

I was joking. Please no Dr. Jim Michael edition.