$35-40,000 slalom tug. Possible?

[liquid d]

A $25000 Slalom tug is easily attained. Buy a bubble but Nautique....97 to 99....and repower it with a brand new engine. Put ZO on it , and it will ski, drive and look as good as anything on the water! Jody Seal did mine, and everyone loves it! I ski behind it several times per week along with a SN200, and the wakes are better behind the 97. The wake at 22 and 28 for slower speed skiers is fantastic, and at 38, 39 , and 41....as good as anything on the market.With prices the way they are, I'm surprised more people don't have one.The next gen for Sn was also really good!

[Jody_Seal]

for sale . $30k tug..pm me for more info.

[bananaron]

@Jody_Seal What yr is the 196??

[ETskier]

Is that John Turners old boat?

[Jody_Seal]

@bananaron 2009, 6 liter

@ETskier this boat has been in either my possession or nautique boats possession since New. true masters boat.

great skiing boat i can provide references.

[LeonL]

That looks like the best bargain on a boat I've seen in some time. I sure wouldn't part with my 08 196, 5.7 for that.

[mmosley899]

@liquid d Yep that's the way to go, we have a '98 SN with ZO. Best pull out there.

[Fastguy888]

I think many Personal Water Craft owners really want a lightweight 3-event sport boat. Be interesting to launch a AWSA certifiable slalom tug but under the persona of a Personal/Family Watercraft, focusing on the driving fun and capabilities as much as the wake, speed control and tracking. After all; 3-event boats are fun to drive and connect with the water. Wake/Surf boats are more like captaining a yacht with all the pros and cons that come with that.

[6balls]

sweet boat @Jody_Seal

[RAWSki]

This 6L tournament approved tug can be had for under $50k. Has the features most skiers want.

[Ali]

Looks like our boat. Would buy another one in a heartbeat.

[Shell]

@Ali ours could be available;)

[Ali]

@Shell what year, engine, hours?

[Shell]

@Ali 2014, 6.0L , 850 hrs, it’s the blue Carbon pro posted by my husband Rawski

[ISP6ball]

How much did the Carbon Pros cost new, and how was it priced compared to similar boats from the top 3? Just curious.

[Ali]

@Shell ours is 2016, 6.0L 1100 hours, same blue too, was hoping you had a low hours 2017 6L :-)

[slow]

didn’t sell well. Nautique put it to rest

[jcamp]

I don't think the Centurion sold well because, if my recollection is correct, at around $55,000 it was only about 10k less than say a new Malibu TXi. That's not enough of a difference to pull many people away from one of the big three. If they could make and sell the Centurion now for 70 or 75k (don't know if that is possible), it would be a much more attractive alternative to the other new boats that are north of 100k.

[RAWSki]

@ISP6ball the goal in 2011 was for the CP to cost $50K as a basic tug with the 5.7L, some of the promo boats (and dealer ordered boats) cost more with options like heated seats, stereo, heater, 6L motor, metal flake and bimini. Same PCM drive train as the SN but with LH rotation. Designed by Rick Lee (founder of Centurion) in collaboration with a pretty good driver named Will Bush. ;-) [i think Paul Crawford also had some input as well.] The CP had great slalom wakes from 24 - 36 mph. Tracked similar to the previous ProStar IMO. With the 6L it was also a good Jump pull and worked great for short set-up sites. Trick wake was just OK, (it was never approved for ballast like most boats today...which might have helped) They were becoming a solid option to the others in '17-'18 then Correct Craft purchased Fineline (Centurion/Supreme) and introduced the reworked 200 and the SN Thing .My favorite recollection when the the Carbon Pro first came out a decade ago was how most people belittled it because "theCenturion is so cheap they didn't even put carpet in the boat..."

[coach3]

Splash a 94 MC, (work on the spray), 250HP small engine, quiet motor box with ZO and you are done. Yeah, I know the new CP is patterned after the 94 MC, and is the new MC hull yet grossly widened,..... but actually KEEP it small, light, closed bow. Economies of scale and it just works. An inboard boat is very simple. Yes, the hull design for 3 event is not, but the mechanics are. Been done for decades. Lot's of other boats to easily learn from. Even a trim tab to add or subtract hook, or spray tabs that do not cost an extra $50K. If buyers want the extras, fine, charge 'em, but basics are basics. $59K and you are making lots of money. Can you sell them? Agreed, big question, but lots of lakes just want ski tractors.

[liquid d]

Jody has a 6L nautique on one of the best hulls ever...ha...that boat should be gone in a week.

[Jody_Seal]

@"liquid d"you would think. I might have to go Richard rawlins on it. first $29,999.99 in "cash" can back up to it and go skiing..

[Killer]

I think it's the colour. Not for everyone. Would look great in Canadian waters!!!Don't fire sale it! Id do it but my 01 with zbox still rocks

[bananaron]

@Jody_Seal Your boat is a buy in this mkt.Dont know why it has not sold. In 2019 I bought a pristine 2009 196 with zo for only $23,000. I have purchased a lot of boats and this one was absolutely new.So boats have really increased in price the last few yrs.Jody I would buy your boat If I did not have one on my lift......

[BraceMaker]

@coach3 I think a indmar ecoboost 2.3 in a small boat would be a hoot I think that engine would be incredible in a 80s 90s vintage boat. Designed for the jet boat and pontoon segment. But the power and weight data is very impressive for a ski tug.

https://www.indmar.com/top-products-award/

[RAWSki]

@Jody_Seal didnt I see that "red rocket" tied up to the Pavillion at the Masters just a year or two ago?

[Jody_Seal]

@RAWSkiit has not been up there since 2018 .the 8 years it was a masters support boat Pleasurecraft Marine updated and provided yearly service items as did nautique boats forgeneral yearly service and repairs.

@bananaronboat is looking for another second mate..might stick a big Alabama roll tide decal on the deck and send it to Tuscaloosa for home coming week....need to clean out the overburden of 40 years in the sport and industry so this one goes to a new home.

[coach3]

@BraceMaker Now we're talkin'. a 2.3 boosted engine in a small boat is a winner. hmmm, might be the beginning of a winter project.

[jpwhit]

Does that Indmar ecoboost 2.3 engine have an eControls ECU? Can it run Zero Off?

I think eControls would have had to develop a new ECU for a 4 cylinder engine and turbo boost pressure control. I bet it running the stock ford ECU.

[BraceMaker]

@jpwhit not sure. The fact that ZO/econtrols has our sport by the balls is a huge problem for powerplant/electric conversions.

If you come out with a viable electric or inline 4 turbo or diesel option but it isn't econtrols ECM... can you sell it to waterski?

Who owns the rights to the first electric conversion tournament boats?

[Jody_Seal]

@BraceMakerI think you have that backwards. we as a sport have allowed and legislated rules that allow zero off to have us by the balls.it's all self inflicted..

[BraceMaker]

@Jody_Seal I mean sure look at that either way.

All the brands shifted to E-Controls ECU's ~2007/8. All DBW.If one of the brands had offered a diesel that was was not DBW in 2008/9 couldn't PP have made a stargazer for it with a cable drive?

My point being as electrics come onto the scene when are we going to see electric motor controller patents that restrict it to one or another brand.Correct me if I'm wrong but if tomorrow MC came out w/ an electric motor boat that could use a cable driven PP stargazer to actuate its motor controller and it went out and became AWSA certified then PP could be used to pull tournaments right?

[RAWSki]

@coach3 we have been down this road before and maybe even much eariler in this thread. FIrst off CC MC and Bu are not going to make a less expensive ski boat, why would they? And the Carbon Pro proved that most skiers are not willing to buy a boat that doesnt say Nautique, MasterCraft or Malibu on the side so there is the conundrum. In my 6 years of bringing CPs to tournaments folks were very happy to see and ski them but that didnt mean purchase. The concept of the promottion program was to sell boats ---- it just doesnt work anymore. Best option is used boats and re-powers with Zero Off upgrades.

[Keith_Menard]

@RAWSki ...and yet you never see them for sale used. A whole lot of someones must still love them.

[jcamp]

If not many new boats are being made, eventually the supply of used boats is going to dry up too.

[GaryJanzig]

What would it cost if you built a ski boat with an interior comparable to a 1999 Ski Nautique(no Sea Deck), modern running surface, analog gauges, traditional source unit for a stereo, a 350-400HP engine, keyed ignition, traditional control switches, and Zero Off. The only touch screen would be for the zero off only. I am thinking a basic traditional closed bow boat with a modern running surface. I am guessing a boat 19'6' to 20'.

[Anderson]

I joke with my younger ski buddies that they will be skiing behind 30 year-old boats that have been rebuilt 3 or 4 times when they get to the end of their ski career -- sort of like the old cars from the 40's and 50's that people still drive in Cuba

[Horton]

@GaryJanzig $120k

[LoopSki]

I agree. No way now. Budget boats if someone is willing , will have to be $80k plus. One can try. Better have deep pockets. China maybe! I voted when a new MC was $59k. $40k may have been possible. Not now. Tooling up is whats gonna kill you. If one could buy all the old stuff now then it could be more budget friendly.

[Dano]

Manufacturers producing this product is never going to happen for all the reasons already stated. I think Jody Seal is doing the repowers regularly and can tell me this is a bad idea but here goes. If a guy sourced an engine supplier (maybe something that isn’t even currently offered) or just did complete rebuilds of the newer motors with econtrols, and developed a kit that could be more of a plug and play install for some older but popular hulls maybe there is a market for that?

[Jody_Seal]

I think the question now is can i refit, restore and re-power my boat for under $40K?just doing the ground work now on a 2000 sport nautique:New engine non cat 6.0 sitting on my floor with transmission $15K including shipping.complete set of interior skins from C&S $6Kperipherals- steering cable, fuel lines, exhaust hoses, band clamps and misc supplies and hardware $1000Flooring- carpet or sea deck $1000- $2,500polish and re decal $1500-$2000Zero off $1600Labor $2500-$3500Tax 6.5%

I utilize PleasureCraft Engines re-power products as they to my knowledge are the only suppliers of engines that offer non cat and e-control capabilities.

Could a comp boat be built and made available on the trailer for under $80K? i think only from a small builder. The boat would have to be analog as well as bare bones. but with the plethora of quality boat candidates for refit in and on the market as well as already paid for as well as out rightly owned. it really makes no sense to purchase a new boat, unless one just has to have the latest, greatest, updatest, elitist slice of bread, one must remember its still a slice of bread.

@Dano I like where you are going with that however setting up and piecing together a small block vortec engine will cost more then to just go ahead and purchase a available repower package. i have done the math and why would anyone want a small block when a 6.0 is the same price or less money?

[BraceMaker]

@Dano I've opined before that the real trick is a fuel injection throttlebody, something like a holley sniper EFI https://www.amazon.com/HOLLEY-SNIPER-SELF-TUNING-INJECTION-CONVERSION/dp/B07V6L5LTH

If that was coming from econtrols such that you just dropped that on your engine, mounted the unit and installed the head unit. Call it 1200 for the throttle body, 1600 for the ZO head unit, and then maybe another 600 for a fuel pump and maybe a different distributor. And then you had that for every small block Chevy and ford ski boat made since the 1960s.

How many potential buyers do you have for this product? Not only every ski boat but every I/O runabout with a carbureted engine.

Its going to run you about 900 bucks anyway just to put a new carb and convert your boat to a pertronix distributor and coil. How much harder is it to come up with another 1500 bucks? How many people buy that cheap runabout and want to wakeboard or kneeboard?

You'd sell 100,000 of these units.

[Skoot1123]

No way can it be done anymore - anyone try to get fiberglass lately? Lead times are crazy right now, as are prices. Still loving my 2001 SN. Hopefully a long time till a repower is needed.

[DW]

@BraceMaker - If an eControls / DBW EFI kit were available at a 'reasonable' price, I would agree a market might be there. I doubt more than 10-20% of the existing used carbed/PP DD ski boats would consider the swap (if that high) but that would be a really great option. On our lake with 6 DD ski boats, only 1 would have an interest in the conversion.

So far, I have not heard many success stories on doing the Sniper install on a ski boat, most of the reviews ended with the owner going back to the tried and true carb as they just could not get the Sniper system to work correctly and gave up on it. Bummer that it is not a simple plug and play and I am not sure what the real issue is.

[Jody_Seal]

the down side to making the sniper work on marine application is the o2 sensors. usually a machined spacer between the risers and manifolds, these spacer o2 blocks are suspect in allowing water back up on the sensors during operation causing failure . hurdles in the marine industry and then trying to utilize proprietary application of say ZO in or on anything other then e-control.but have heart , if the engine is a vortec, multiportwith either a 3 bolt or 4 bolt throttle body and acrank sensor . it can be made to utilize e controland zero off. there are even custom intake manifolds at summit and jegs that would work just fine...more to come on that one. you get one tune but it is robust and has a 5200 rpm limiter.

[Dano]

I think the guys that have installed sniper on marine applications use the o2 sensor to create an initial tune. Once they have that you can save that map and run in an open loop so they no longer need the O2 sensor.

Something like sniper could be a good solution for the older carbed boats. My boat runs a 351w carbed with an upgraded prop. It runs very well and I have zero interest in spending money to get EFI or even zero off. It works very well the way it is with Perfect pass. I honestly do not notice a huge difference when skiing my own boat vs a zero off boat.

Now at some point my boat will need a new motor. when that time comes if there is a reasonably priced engine with e controls available to purchase I would very likely shell out the extra cash at that time. The caveat here is that that new motor has to be significantly cheaper than me simply buying a used boat with zero off. Is there anybody who is refurbishing marine engines and selling them complete including fuel injection, and ECU?

[jgills88]

While not a slalom boat, or under $40k, Heyday is making a wakeboats that start at $66k. I know that generally those types of boats are sold for more than $100k to start. Hopefully they can make an impact on the wakeboard side industry, and encourage someone to make a new ski boat for much less than what's available now

[swc5150]

$40k is long out the window, but with Chevy able to make a new 1LT C8 for $65-$70k, a ski boat could definitely be on the market for around the same. But with such a small market, it would take the big 3 do to it, and they're not going to bother.

[Broussard]

@jgills88 Bryant purportedly had plans to produce a Ski Tractor following the Wake Tractor project, but after being sold off to HeyDay, then HeyDay being acquired by Bayliner I'm sure that project ended up on the cutting room floor.

[Horton]

@BroussardIt was former MasterCraft CEO John Dorton's project. His son Ben was a big part of the WakeTractor project. I am fuzzy on the corporate ownership timeline but the bottom line is John was a ski boat guy from the 1990s ( 16 years at MasterCraft). I recall John calling me when the SkiTractor idea was still in idea and talking my ear off about ski boats.