2019 Ski Nautique

[skinut]

I am struggling with what improvements could be made to the boat that would allow the manufacturer ask for such a premium. I can see it in the Wakeboard boat market. With the automated wake systems for surfing and wakeboarding. They are generally bigger boats with more material, automated towers, stereos, etc.

 

What could you add to a ski boat to justify that type of premium? I'm thinking a boat with no wake, auto pilot, seat massagers, drink dispenser, guaranteed hot observer.... Seriously, how good of a boat could it be to demand that price?

[Ilivetoski]

@Chef23 in my original post I did say a promo (meaning 1 year old used promo) but say you bought a new one... what would a brand new one cost if you paid full retail (which wouldn’t happen)... $80K? $85K? That’s a looooong way from $130K

[vtmecheng]

In the end, boat manufacturers don't care about sport promotion. I know that may seem counterintuitive but hear me out before you hit the disagree button below. Let’s look at a similar market, cars. Lower cost cars for the masses don’t actually make a ton of money for companies, models like a Corolla or Fusion. Where does big money come from then? The high end market like Porsches, the higher end BMWs and Mercedes, and even Lambos rake in money at unbelievable rates. Why is this? It’s all about perceived value and what someone is willing to spend to get a high end name/product. Sure, Lamborghini spends a lot of money on car development and high level components but the markup of what they spend vs the vehicle cost is way above that of a Corolla. So, they make fewer, sell fewer, but end up with nice profits. Maybe that’s what is going on with ski boats? Let’s be honest, all of those electronics that they put ski boats now don’t actually cost thousands upon thousands of dollars. A touch screen, lights, speakers, etc are all minor. Even speed control systems have been around for so long that the price should be small. GPS components are low cost now and the engine control software is really not that complex, not to mention it’s been developed for years now. What I’m trying to get at here is that it’s all about profits for a boat manufacturer. If the boat is considered a high end, luxury item then profits don’t require high volume but high markups due to perceived value. So long as people buy the boats they make at enough of a profit per sale, business is good. Shoot, why do you think there aren’t any lower cost ski boats out there? It wouldn’t be hard to take an already developed OB hull, strip the “high end” materials down some, take off any higher cost bells and whistles, and sell it under a sister brand name to save face. If volume made money or they cared about sport promotion then we would already have two of three of these budget ski boats for the amature who just wants to go out with the kids or friends.

 

I’ll get off my soapbox now, sorry everyone for the rant.

[swc5150]

@Live2ski My ‘15 MC stickered at $100k. Only options I could’ve added were tandem trailer and 6.2.

[mkerzie]

With wakeboard boats going for 150k-200k I cant imagine there isn't a market for these. But I do agree.. that is a steep price. The upside is the price for used ski boats will definitely go up.

[vtmecheng]

@mkerzie that's not an upside for the first time buyer of a used boat.

[mkerzie]

@vtmecheng Agreed. And I didn't look at it from the buyers perspective rather the seller.

[BraceMaker]

@mkerzie it would be a plus side for people like myself with pre-zero off boats who would be interested in moving a bit more modern.

 

But if perfectly good boats like 91-94 prostars are slow on the market at 8-9 grand w/ stargazer it makes it a hard pill to drop 30K on a used ZO boat. And CRAZY to drop 130.

 

G-Wagon 1994 117K, G-Wagon 2018 129K

SN 1994 27K, SN 2018 130....

 

In '94 you had to be extremely baller to be buying a G-Wagon.

 

 

[Greg Banish]

It's like my SN196 keeps paying me every time I ski it. Here's to a strong secondary market, I guess. CC just put the cost of a 5.3L repower and completely new upholstery in perspective. I don't need either any time soon, but I need a new $130k tug even less if I ever want to retire and use either boat more often.

[wawaskr]

Does anyone think the high costs of new boats has more to do with return on investment for engineering, tooling, marketing, etc, for the OEMs due to the VERY SMALL waterski specific marketplace (units sold) - and much less to do with costs of new technology, materials, designs, etc?...(read dying sport)

[Ilivetoski]

@swc5150 that’s not cheap, but the Nautique is a whole used boat more

[dbski]

At that price, our 08 SN196 is going to be around for a long time!

[keithh2oskier]

@wawaskr those costs for engineering, tooling, molds are probably pretty high but Nautique has basically been amortizing the costs for almost 10 years. Same goes with the beloved 196 that essentially had a 10+ year run with slight tweaks along the way.

 

I like @Greg Banish way of looking into it. My boat is paying me to ski... I was having beers over the weekend and one friend who used to own a wakeboard boat was basically never again and would just chip in gas to go on someone else's boat. The cost does not equal to the enjoyment. Another guy was thinking of getting one and was worried about the investment. I said I don't think about the ownership costs when I got my boat. I just pay the bills and enjoy it. If I were to think about the depreciation, maintenance, cost to own etc then I will soon realize hey I could spend a lot less money on a different hobby that probably gives me similar joy.

[6balls]

I'm really glad there are people that buy new high-end stuff, keep it nice and sell it later. Used car and boat market can be pretty fun.

[dvskier]

@wawaskr Think the manufacturer would rather have a $200k wake oat build slot or a $70k ski boat build slot? They only have/need so many build slots for their maximum capacity. From what I know they only sell about 200 ski boats/annually so why do they concern themselves with a shrinking market. The lake I live on is heavily populated with wakeboard or surf boats at over $150k each. Fifteen year financing, ka ching!!

 

[swc5150]

Even with the small volumes, they're not going to kill a product line that is providing positive contribution to their P&L's. Cutting 200-250 annual builds would be huge hit to bottom line. The volumes of DD ski boats have always been nothing more than a radar blip. The market would have to completely dissolve, which won't happen anytime soon. People will just flow in and out. As someone mentioned in the Prostar thread, it feels like everyone has a new one.

[fox197]

If that’s 130000 USD then I dare say correct craft have killed their ski boat sales down under. A 70k USD prostar is 110-120k AUD. Goodluck selling a 160-180k AUD out and out slalom rig. Even though they sell stuff all 200s as it is in Oz

[BraceMaker]

@swc5150 - sure its Friggen 40% cheaper than the 200 at this point on MSRP

 

At least you can make an argument that the big wake boats are a bit more multipurpose.

[swc5150]

@BraceMaker Take it for what it's worth, but my dealer says the non-carbon SN won't be priced up there with the carbon version. From what he could say, I don't think the big picture is as scary as it sounded initially. He provided no real specifics however. We'll see in a week I suppose.

[UWSkier]

I like the older ones anyways. :)

[dbressel]

Electric boat with 4 + hours drive time; air conditioning; strain gauge with pinpoint skier tracking; built in camera system with optional drone; precise auto pilot/steering? - I could think allot of cool stuff for that kind of $.

[shansen345]

$130k?? You can buy a promo ProStar and a brand new nicely-equipped Raptor to pull it with for that. And I am a big Nautique fan too...

I mean geez, you can buy a Porsche 911 for that money.

[auskier]

@fox197 the Aus market isnt that simple..

Do you know that a new TXI with a tower, ZO, few odds and ends is 110k+? A friend of mine is selling his promo with the 6.2 for 98k. 200 sales for us are a different story. Basically, for the aus dealers to get a build slot for a 200 has been very difficult. Other than the 2 moomba boats, its been near impossible to get a new 200 sent to aus for a few years.

[The_MS]

Wonder what the YOY upgrade $ to the promo guys will be?

[jercrane]

I hope this means the inventory of used 200's on the market goes up. I've been having a hell of a time finding one.

[dave2ball]

@MS the promo guys don’t own the boats anymore. It a lease program.

[fox197]

@auskier I do know that the 110 mark is what we are looking at down here for a Malibu or a prostar. That’s what I mean by nautique putting a nail in the coffin if they expect to sell a pure slalom rig if it’s going to be priced 130k usd unless it comes fully loaded and you don’t need to spec it up. They won’t need to worry about it being hard for aussies to get a build spot because I’m pretty sure no ones going to fork that kind of money out. I know very well that the aus market is very different to the US market.

[BraceMaker]

@fox197 plenty of room to come up w/ a proper Aussie ski boat and start exporting!

[Bill22]

@dave2ball even though it’s a lease program don’t you think there monthly lease payment would still go up?

[skierjp]

@Bill22 —-NO

[Bill22]

@skierjp well that’s good news for the sport.

[Orlando76]

Wow. Reading these types of threads is depressing because I realize how poor I am. Yet somehow I’m running the same passes behind my 93 as I do behind the 07 SN that I Ski more frequently and the same passes I Ski behind a 16,17 SN and the 14 CP and better than I can do behind the 16,17,18 MC.

[dave2ball]

@Bill22 I have no idea. I’m not involved anymore.

[escmanaze]

So...if they continue to offer the normal 200, then I really don't see any possible harm that could come of this. It's just more choice. More choice never hurt anybody. That's why we are all so sad at the death of the CP - because it represented choice - and we like that. It was the choice on the bottom end (in terms of $$$) and many wish they still had it. Now we are being offered a new choice at the top end, and I'm sure many will be happy they have that choice.

 

It seems silly to be mad or sad or whatever at Chevy for offering a Corvette just because your current budget can only afford a Camaro.

 

Maybe a better analogy: Radar just came out with the senate lithium. Nobody got mad at them for the $1,000 price tag when their old senate alloy from a couple years ago only cost $600. They just decided the higher end materials weren't something they wanted to pay for and went and bought the new version of the alloy. I didn't hear any weeping, wailing, and gnashing of teeth when radar decided to offer the senate lithium and charge 60% more for the better materials, so why all the negativity now that CC is doing the same thing?

[ScottScott]

A lot of negativity about the price of a carbon version of a new boat that sounds like they will also offer the same boat in fiberglass....? A boat made of carbon is going to be expensive. There will probably be a few people that chunk down that money and get one. Then for the rest of the world there will be a fiberglass boat that I would think would be priced competitively with similar boats out there. No need to panic.

[BrennanKMN]

It's funny how all these new boat threads always turn into a price debate threads. It is unfortunate that the price of the boat overshadows all the potential new innovations of said boat regardless of if you intend to purchase one or not.

[Stevie Boy]

I like the 200, it tracks nice, has enough power, nice to drive, basically a reasonably sorted boat, it does the Job well, I do not need to ski behind anything fancy or super expensive.

"I AM A WATER SKIER" the Boat is a tool, that is necessary for me to ski.

 

But I have always loved the sound of a Malibu with the big engine on a lake.

[Greg Banish]

OK, I'll bite... How much lighter do we expect the "Carbon" boat to be than the fiberglass one? The Centurion CP was only partially Carbon layup, and still had lots of mass from gelcoat, resin, and fiberglass. I seriously doubt this new CC will be ALL carbon at only $130k. Modern towboats have gotten significantly heavier than previous generations, albeit with much improved hull designs that seem to tame the wake. Do we really expect a new boat to get back down to 2500# loaded weight?

 

If they were really serious about weight reduction, I bet one could pull more weight out of the engine by going to a smaller boosted engine that still offers good power/torque and get the same benefit (with improved fuel consumption and emissions!) as a carbon hull.

[Sethro]

@Stevie Boy I say the same thing when referring to my 98 Malibu Echelon. Come to think of it, my buddy down the river says the same of his 84 Stars and Stripes. We kind of think as the 200 as fancy or super expensive. :#

[vtmecheng]

Good points on the offering of options. So long as the base boat is still offered there shouldn't be reason to get upset. That said, maybe we are all venting frustrations at even the price of the fiberglass versions. Really, any ski boat these days will be a base of around $70-80k. In the end, not much of America or the world can afford a boat at that price point, on top of the vehicle to tow it with. I've been saving for my first boat. Even at the used price points I will be pushing things to ensure my retirement date doesn't slip because of it.

[Golfguy]

Interesting two models of the ski tug, one same as before and the other a supermodel, or pro model with carbon. A Carbon Pro if you will?

[aupatking]

I’m excited to see the new boat. Any idea what it’s called?. I don’t think they’re going to be so unoriginal as us, and call it the 200-R. All Carbon, maybe they’ll call it the Carbon Pro ;) . Maybe not. I’m wondering what kind of styling changes they made and differences in hull design. Mostly interested in the Hull.

Like the RADAR analogy, I think it’s a great idea to put out the newest tech in the highest level. Maybe this year it’s all Carbon, and next year they put it out in glass. That’s conjecture and worth just that though.

[BraceMaker]

@Greg Banish that engine marinization is going to cost more than the carbon layup does, but it is unnecessary people love the Prostar's wake, and its ~4-500 pounds heavier than a CP.

[Horton]

@Greg Banish it's not that hard for the manufacturers to pull weight out of the composite. The hard part is doing that and then keeping the boat balanced and consistent from boat to boat.

[skierjp]

This is going to be too funny

[skiboat38]

Left yourself open for some easy criticism Jim.....

[Not_The_Pug]

The G-26 is going to be nice! Looking forward to Monday.

[Bill22]

@skierjp I thought we were all in agreement that everything posted is speculation and no one claimed to have any concrete information??? If it’s speculation it doesn’t need to be accurate.

 

hmm...guess that post was edited

[j2nh]

What I saw last fall, and has been posted in several places is:

8% reduction in hull mass with carbon reinforced fiberglass

5% reduction in hydrodynamic resistance.

 

If true then on a 3000# boat it's a 240# reduction. Not sure how significant that is.

Same with hydro resistance. I would assume that comes from getting the hull up and out of the water.

 

We will see, or at 130K, I will not cause that is just a tad rich for my blood.

[Wish]

My 1987 Supra Ts6m limited edition was advertised as being Kevlar. Now the actual amount of Kevlar in the boat production couldn't have amounted to much more then what a ski is made up of. How much of the 200 is actually carbon?. Is the price of carbon that low an entire boat can be made out of it?