Zero Based Scoring

[kurt]

so @Triplett if i am reading between the lines it will be a go at all your c events and all of my c events . That means at least the majority of the events in Michigan will be ZBS.

Will I ski 36? depends on what the current bet with my son is for the day.......and if the wager is worth it.

[lpskier]

The Class C at the LaPoint Ski Park tournament April 1&2 will offer 36 for men and 34 for women. It will be interesting to see whether there will be any takers.

[MISkier]

@kurt, I am sure the Tivoli events will also have the optional max speed ZBS.

[Kelvin]

The Lakes of Katy tournaments this summer will have the ZBS with the increased speeds for men and women. We need to give these new rules a try to get some real world data points rather than 14 pages of speculation.

[kurt]

@rico I'm the committee.....

[Triplett]

@kurt I foresee the vast majority of the events in Michigan allowing 36mph for men and 34mph for women. This will most likely be for states as well. Our state board was all for the original ZBS rule.

[MillerTime38]

@Jackq I do compete, unfortunately the last couple seasons I was not able to compete because my wife is in the USN and we had to change duty stations so it cut into my skiing time. If you go back and look at the years 2008 to 2014 I am sure you will see plenty of scores recorded for me and even two podium finishes at Nationals during that time. Am I qualified now to have a strong opinion?

 

 

[skidawg]

@JackQ ---spike has spent many hours hitting the tournaments and sipping cold ones with us!!!

[teammalibu]

Yes Spike AKA MillerTime38 has been ripping the SCR tourney scene for many years and hes still using the same ski vest!

[bigtex2011]

that ole flappy thing isnt a vest. its his wobbie blanket

[MISkier]

Resurrecting this thread to move the discussion away from the W4 speed change thread for comments not specifically related to W4 skiers.

 

To transfer some of the discussion from that thread here, the W4 thread discussions on page 4 and 5 are where this bump is originating from:

 

https://www.ballofspray.com/forum#/discussion/22679/new-max-speed-for-w4/p4

 

In that thread, there were some comments from @klindy about going to IWWF 35+, 45+, 55+, etc. divisions. I suggested that some might think competing against skiers 10-30 years younger would be unfair just to get to ski a faster speed. The point was suggested by @ski6jones that it is no more unfair than the 6 buoy difference in speed. @bsmith suggested that ZBS only work downward (shorten before max speed, no overspeed).

 

Some questions came to mind:

 

1. What would the score be for a 30 year old man competing in M2 who completed -35 at 36 mph and then achieved 4 buoys at -38 at 36 mph?

2. What would the score be for a 30 year old woman competing in W2 who completed -35 at 34 mph and then achieved 4 buoys at -38 at 34 mph?

3. Now, with each of these skiers at 55 years old and competing in M5 and W5, respectively, why should the score be any different when they ski the exact same passes? Did they not complete what was required to receive the M2/W2 score?

 

Competing against younger skiers is not necessarily an issue, but it dilutes the performance potential of the skier against their peers in their natural chronological division to require the drop down for the option of higher speed. In my case, I would qualify for Nationals if I competed in M1 with the current cutoff score. I skied one tournament at 36 mph after the cutoff date this fall and my best score of the day was just over the cutoff. I haven't qualified for Nationals during my entire time in M4. I realize that also says something about the level of competitiveness in the current generation of M4.

 

The desire for the speed cap on the older divisions is something I'm trying to understand. It seems like running the Indy 500 with everyone behind the pace car for the entire race.

 

Those advocating for the cap will need to remember it when they encounter a speed reduction that they don't want, which is kind of how this whole topic got going again.

[eleeski]

Speed caps exist for safety valid reasons. Energy goes up with the square of the speed so small speed changes have a large effect on injury potential.

 

Look at how many threads discuss bindings and binding safety. It is a real factor for a lot of us. I broke my hip just pulling out for the gates - no fall. I was M5 at the time (Open tricks so not a physical wreck). The reality is that our bodies become less able to tolerate the stresses of skiing. Slowing down mitigates this somewhat and is a good thing for the sport.

 

Sure, the exact age breaks aren't perfect for everyone but they are close. Keeping us aligned with the rest of the world has value at L tournaments. That alone is worthy.

 

Overspeed should never be incentivised.

 

Eric

[JaredSmith]

Everyone needs to know and ski at their level, just because the risk of injury increases with speed does not make it right to not let others ski at 36 mph and get full credit for it. True Zero Based scoring allows anyone to ski up to 36 mph and get credit for it, those that think they can get a better score at 36 mph go for it realizing the increased risk of speed.

[eleeski]

Many (far more popular) sports have procedures to enhance the safety of their participants. Race cars limit engines and downforce. Red Bull air racers have speed and G limits. Nordic jumpers move the start position to keep jumpers from outjumping the hill. Swim racers can't use skinsuits (safety for their wallets). Sport governing bodies have a responsibility to protect their athletes. Waterskiing slows down maximum speeds for very young and old skiers to protect them.

 

Allowing a skier to choose a division that has a higher speed makes far more sense than forcing an unsafe speed on an entire age division.

 

Eric

[Horton]

bump

[RAWSki]

what @Horton is saying is that he isnt looking forward to slowing the boat down because of the wake  bump ??

On a side note glad the old guys in charge lowered the mens top speed for "safety" at 35 years but decided the girls could run 34mph until 55?

Edited January 25, 2023 by RAWSki

[lpskier]

If you want to ski faster than your division max in slalom or jump in a record tournament, you can ski in an international division. For example, if you are in M7 with a max speed of 52, you can ski “S3” (55+) at 55k. You may have to explain what you want to do to your scorer, but hopefully your CJ will know the rule. How it shakes out on the ranking list is still not clear to me. 
 

Fyi, if you received a poll about potentially increasing the M9 max speed from 49k to 52k, that proposal was not approved by the AWSA board.