Symmetrical slalom course?

[roberto]

Why is the course not Symmetrical? So 12 buoys, 6 on the left left, 6 on the right , your choice at the gate shot, left pull out or right pull out?

 

 

[lcgordon]

Kinda makes sense but you dont see that in any other sport. Like in nascar. I suck at left turns can I make right ones.

[RazorRoss3]

I've seen those before. Good if you want to practice your 2/4 turn since in an ordinary arrangement you only get two real turns on that side.

[Waternut]

I always wondered the same but I thought it would make more sense to make it an odd number so you're forced into something like 3 onside, 2 offside one pass followed by 3 offside and 2 onside the next. Would never make it through the rule books now since the sport isn't big enough to force a change.

 

Maybe cable sports could create unique slalom courses where the buoys are constantly changed to provide a different challenge.

 

@lcgordon You may not see it in nascar but you see it in just about every other form of racing.

[Andre]

I remember a video from Andy running that kind of course in Acapulco...

I'll try to find it.

[Than_Bogan]

@Waternut What!? Different sport depending on which end you're starting from? Thumbs down to that!

 

I really don't see much need to consider this issue. Top results and WRs have been split between LFF and RFF throughout the history of the sport. So fairness of the current setup has been demonstrated.

[harddock]

then you would want to jump from both sides. If you want a challenge do a pass back and forth at same speed, then switch foot configuration. go fro LF RR to RF LL and make the same two passes.

[TallSkinnyGuy]

@Andre The video you mentioned is called "Slalom with Andy Mapple" where he is interviewed by Gordon Rathbun. I remember Andy commenting after skiing the reverse course that it was "so easy" skiing the course with the first ball on the left -- basically dissing LFF skiers by implying they had an advantage. I thought it was a pretty funny comment.

[MattP]

@Waternut I know @Edbrazil can comment on unique slalom courses and the history in the sport from far back in the day.

[Edbrazil]

You want to try a left-hand course? Sign up for some sessions with Chet Raley, who has

both of his courses with that option. Chet is in South Florida, at a county park in Boca

Raton: http://www.pbtcenter.com/PBTC/Home.html

 

[ntx]

@harddock That is called "texas style jump" and it was allowed for many jears.

I am sure @Edbrazil can give you details.

 

[harddock]

I know about Texas Style. My point was right side jumping as is right first ball is the norm.

 

[Drago]

Placement of judging towers is an issue. Safe lake layout can be an issue, including jump location relative to the sl course.

I think 5 or 7 ball courses would be fun

[lpskier]

For every extra turn ball, you need 134 extra feet of lake. one extra turn ball and an extra set of gates consumes an extra 222 feet of lake. If 1800 feet of lake is tight for a six ball course, @roberto 's 12 ball course would require an extra 804 feet of lake. So then a 2600 foot lake is tight. Just adding an extra gate and turn ball would make a 2000 foot lake ski like an 1800 foot lake skis now. I'll guess that the typical ski lake is 1850 to 2000 feet long. If Texas jumping were to come back, you'll need maybe an extra 100 to 120 feet of width to jump from the left side. That would make a lot of jump sites, Lake Grew perhaps as an example, unable to hold jump events. #iskiconnelly

[Than_Bogan]

*MATH ALERT*

 

Actually, a slalom course (as is) actually has a powerful kind of symmetry known as point reflection symmetry. This means that, relative to some center point, each point is matched by a point that is exactly opposite it across that center point.

 

We place the center point where you'd expect: on the center line halfway between 3 and 4. Now pick any buoy, and you'll see there is a matching buoy the same distance away from the center in exactly the opposite direction. For example, skier ball 3 is symmetric to skier ball 4. The same for 2-5 and 1-6. The left-hand boat guide at ball 2 is symmetric to the right-hand boat guide at ball 5. Etc.

 

So there's no need to change anything to make it symmetrical :). QED.

[Nando]

So this is off topic, but here's a question for Ed Brazil: How long since "Texas style" jumping was prohibited? Before my time, so it's been a long time...

[Nando]

So this is off topic, but here's a question for Ed Brazil: How long since "Texas style" jumping was prohibited? Before my time, so it's been a long time...

[ScottScott]

RE: Mapple comments dissing LFF. I am LFF and have been thinking it is a bit of an advantage. I'm just now learning the course, maybe at a higher level it evens out (tho Mapple is about as high a level as it gets....) I feel like I can make up for a bad gate since my 1 ball and cross after will be onside, then out of the 6 balls its really just 5 for me (as with an onside cross from 5 to 6 I have never gotten my ski around 5 and NOT been able to get around 6 and out the gate) so 3 of the 5 remaining turns are onside.....my pass really just comes down to the 2 critical offside turns and crosses.

[Edbrazil]

Responding belatedly to @nando. I believe that the 1976 Nationals in Miami had leftie

jumping, moving the ramp to and fro in a tight canal. At our "Ultra Pond" site in the mid

to late 1970's, we did have a leftie jump course setup, and subbuoyed, but we never used

it. Someone out there may remember the last Nationals with left-side jumping.

 

From well back, the World Rules only allowed right-side jumping. So, anyone with some

aspirations about being on a World Team or competing in a Worlds, would have to be a

right-side jumper.

 

The AWSA came up with a smart solution, without actually banning leftie jumping. That

was you had to be able to show you were a leftie jumper as of a certain date to be able to

request that boat path. And, the local organization was also not required to provide leftie

jumping.

 

Back in the East, we had plenty of leftie jumpers. In the 1971 Nationals, the McDonald

brothers from the East went 1-2 in Sr. Men. Joe Delsignore may have been one of the last

holdouts, before changing to being a right-side jumper. Joe held the AWSA jump record

in Men8 at 80 feet in 1980. I don't know if it was right or left; someone else here may

know. bit it was done at Lake Holly at the Regionals. For sure, some Lake Holly people

will remember. I suspect that Joe had "converted" by that time.

 

By the way, the first person to hold the AWSA jump record at 150' was Penny Baker, who

was a Texas Jumper (1960). Danny Rowzee, in the early-mid 1970's was a leftie, who held

the Men2 record at one time.

 

For the "Rest Of The Story", I will need to get over to the Sligh Library in Polk City to pore

through old rulebooks.

[BraceMaker]

@lpskier - don't believe he was discussing balls in series with the standard course. Simply that every turn ball would have a mirrored brother across from it.

 

On tight set ups it would be hard to start to the right - lots of lakes you have a bit of whip coming off the dog leg- youd have a hard time getting wide if the boat was still turning into the pregate.