Competing in OM, what are the qualifications?

[MISkier]

What is required for someone to compete in Open Men in a class C tournament? I realize there are rankings for elite status, but can any average skier designate they want to ski in an Open class to get the higher speed not available in their age group? Is it as simple as designating OM on the entry form?

[Than_Bogan]

If you only care about the higher speed, I'm 99% sure all you have to do under current rules is ask for it. Buoys score as if at your division's official max speed.

[DanE]

Except for the US, in the rest of the world you just enter Open.

That's what open stands for, open to anyone but beware of the competition you might encounter.

[MISkier]

I want to be scored at 36 mph.

[Than_Bogan]

Oh. Then I have no useful information! :(

[MattP]

@fizer ?

[FLeboeuf]

@DanE in Canada you have to qualify too for the open class. It's 4 @ 38 off 36 to qualify. It might be near that for the US, maybe more..but here if you want to compete at 36 you can just enter in the mens category whatever age you are.

[ntx]

@MISkier Unless you hold a Open rank, you can not ski open at regional or nationals. Not sure about what you can do in a class C. A open rank in tricks will not get you a pass into open in slalom. You can get a open overall but most of those skiers have a open rank in at least one event and usually two.

[wtrskior]

In canada you can also opt down so a men's 3 skier can ski mens (combined mens 1 & 2 divisions) which is 36mph. Not sure if you can do that in the US?

[klindy]

@MISkier just ask for it. What you can't do is start at 34 then, after a pass or two, ask to go faster. Notice the rule says "a skier may elect to START at a speed higher...."

 

10.06 C. A skier may elect to start at a speed higher than his division maximum speed, up to his respective Open Division maximum speed, and may not return to his division maximum speed on subsequent passes. Any passes skied at that higher speed shall receive credit for buoys as though they were being run at his division maximum speed

 

In a class L or class R tournament (run under IWWF rules) you can typically ski in IB, IM or alike which may have different max speeds, ramp heights, etc.

 

If you want to be scored at 36mph you need to earn a OM rating. The requirements are posted in the FAQ's in the ranking list found here - http://www.usawaterski.org/rankings/news/FAQ_Rankings.htm

 

 

[ntx]

So you can ski 5@-32 off at 36mph and it will score as 5@ -32 off at 34. Yep , that's what I want to do.

[klindy]

@ntx no probably not the best example. But Mongo may want to go 34 instead of 32. Or others who's speed drops can pick a higher speed of they want too.

[MISkier]

@klindy,

 

If I went to an L or R and skied IM, would the score be tabulated as a 36 mph/58 kph score?

 

For those wondering, it's a bucket list thing. I started tournaments at age 45 and never was able to compete at 36 mph. I'm a few weeks away from 50 and I'd like to do this (and receive the commensurate scoring) while I can still run it.

 

And, to be honest, I actually enjoy skiing at that speed and seem to smooth out a little more.

 

I have no delusions about winning anything or achieving any rating. Just a scorebook entry and the accomplishment of challenging myself to do it.

[klindy]

Yep. You sure should get credit.

[ColeGiacopuzzi]

When I decided that I wanted to ski open, I just started putting OM in the entry forms, BUT to qualify and actually get your open rating I think it was 5.5 at 38off you have to run twice, but it does vary into early 39 territory as well.

[DanE]

@jayski What is the disagreement?

[LeonL]

@klindy, you stated that if he wanted to be scored at 36, he needed to earn an OM rating. How would he do that? Seems like a catch 22. You can't be scored at 36 unless you earn a OM rating and you can't earn an OM rating unless you're scored at 36. Just asking, not being rude.

[ntx]

@LeonL if you look at the top of the ranking list for m3/m5 slalom you will see om/ mm. that is a open with a 34 mph score

[klindy]

@LeonL

 

Again all the info can be found here - http://www.usawaterski.org/rankings/news/FAQ_Rankings.htm

 

Below is a copy/paste from that page -

 

Top male skiers over the age of 35 might be Masters qualified, or could possibly be both Masters and Open qualified, if their ranking score meets the Level 9 cutoff score for Open in their event. Taking Tricks as an example, let's say the Level 9 cutoff score for Open is 5400 points, and the Level 9 cutoff score for Masters is 3600 points. Then a M4 tricker with a ranking score of 4500 points would be Masters qualified, and a M4 tricker with a ranking score of 6500 points would be both Masters and Open qualified.

 

The same applies in Slalom and Jumping as well, with a couple of small wrinkles for each. In Jumping, the Open Cutoff score being used as the criteria for a 35+ male jumper, may have been further adjusted to match the conditions for his age division, in accordance with the adjustment factors explained earlier in this section.

 

In Slalom, Zero-Based Slalom scoring automatically accounts for the difference between the 55 kph and 58 kph maximum slalom boat speeds of the Open and Masters divisions. So let's say that on a given day the Level 9 cutoff score for Open is 106 buoys, which for skiers in M1 or M2 or OM (or B3) is 4 at 11.25 meters (38 off) at 58 kph. And that the Masters Level 9 cutoff score is 104 buoys, which for M3 or M4 or MM etc is 2 at 10.75 meters (39-1/2 off) at 55 kph. So a M4 slalom skier with a ranking score of 105 buoys -- 3 at 39-1/2 off at 55 kph -- would be Masters qualified. and another M4 slalom skier with a ranking score of 107 buoys -- 5 at 39-1/2 off at 55 kph -- would be both Masters and Open qualified.

 

Finally, a 35+ male skier could be both Masters and Open qualified in Overall if their Overall performances -- as recalculated using the Open division NOPS standards -- exceeds the OM Overall Level 9 cutoff score. See the material on Elite Overall, which appears earlier in this section, for more details on this subject.

 

A key point here to keep in mind, is that the Level 9 cutoff score which displays at the bottom of any of the Male divisions for skiers age 35 or older, will always be the Masters Men cutoff. The Level 9 Open cutoff score that is applicable for those 35+ skiers to attain Open Elite qualification can be found at the bottom of any of the M1 or M2 or OM division rankings for that event. Remember that in Jumping that cutoff may be subject to a further adjustment. Where such a skier is coded as OM/MM in the Elite Status column, then recognize that the OM qualification has been determined by using the associated Open cutoff, rather than the Masters cutoff which appears in the box at the bottom of that particular age division ranking page.

 

Finally, for those skiers showing both OM and MM Elite status, that the expiration dates for those two qualifications may not be the same, depending of course on when and how those two qualifications were respectively earned.

[MISkier]

I checked the IWWF rules and it appears that the 36 mph speed is the only speed you can ski in IM. Rope starting length appears to be 15 off, but is also subject to tournament officials' discretion. Makes sense. So, this morning, I tried my first pass off the dock at 36 mph 22 off. I made it and relatively smoothly. Now, tournament jitters are another issue, but I at least believe it is possible. If the L/R tournament director allows a 22 off start, I am in business. I did try 28 off a couple of times (hadn't in years) and got around 4 ball a couple of times. There is an L tournament here on 9/4. I have some thinking to do.

[klindy]

Go fir it! @MISkier

[LeonL]

Ok, I understand. I guess I really already knew that some 34 skiers show up,in the rankings with. OM/MM or just MM. DUH!

[jayski]

@DanE not sure about "in the rest of the world", but in Canada you need to qualify for Open and we actually have an "Elite" division also (qualification criteria also)...you can't just enter either...you statement was just too broad and unsubstantiated

[DanE]

Ok, fair enough.

Why not use a qualification score for the tournaments where it's needed?

Many tournaments don't have enough open participants to fill up a podium, saw a result sheet earlier this summer with Chris Parrish as the only skier in open

( he won by the way!).

[Dirt]

You can ski IM in a c tournament and start at whatever rope length you want.

[MISkier]

@Dirt, do you have a reference to cite on that IM in a C tournament? That may allow me multiple shots at this and not require always waiting for an L or R.

[Dirt]

I asked a very knowledgeable Pan Am Judge yesterday.

[bishop8950]

@MISkier go for it no matter how it goes in the books. You will know forever how you did and that's all that really matters.

 

I had a similar situation. Never ran 38@36mph before I went to m3 and slowed down. After a few seasons at 34mph I was more consistent at 38@36mph. I had also earned an Open rating based on my 34mph scores (~2@41) so I didn't had to worry about that. So I signed up for a record in Open and got to ski with Terry, Detrick and a few others. I was first off but didn't finish last. Ran 1.5@39 and 3@39. That will remain my 36mph PB for the rest off life (most likely :-) ) and I am so glad I did it.

[MISkier]

Mission accomplished. Was able to ski IM in a class C yesterday.

 

My best of the day was 3.5 @ 28 off at 36 mph. That round was behind @RAWSki Centurion (previously owned by @Horton). First time skiing a Centurion for me and that boat skied great. Now, I just need to drive it.

 

I have a new problem, though. I think I need to run that 28 off at 36 mph. I only practiced a total of about 6-8 passes about a week before the tournament to do this. I think, with a little work, I can improve. This is bad. I am now addicted at two speeds.

 

Side note: The 3.5 @ 28 off at 36 mph is numerically my tournament PB (since it beats 3 @ 32 off at 34 mph).

 

 

 

Ignore the other 2 crappy scores.

 

 

 

 

[MISkier]

Took some 36 mph practice sets tonight and ran 28 off at 36 for the first time ever. Now that I know it can be done, I have to decide if I want to take another crack at it as IM. There are two tournaments left this year that I will be able to attend. The only reason not to do it is try to break my 34 mph PB, which I have also been doing in practice. And, I am almost running that 34 mph "wall" pass.

[wskierman8]

You can ski open in the tournament, and your scores will be recorded like normal in the open division on the rankings list. however (I'm assuming you are a men's 3 skier) your scores in M3 will be recorded as if you were at 34 mph.

 

For example: running 28 @36 would give you a total score of 90 buoys in the open division, but for your M3 ranking you will only be credited with 84 buoys

[MISkier]

@wskierman8, I already skied the IM to get the score recorded as a 36 mph score. It shows that way in my USA Waterski scores as 58 kph (shown in one previous post). I realize that, for my M4 ranking, they subtract 6 buoys if my IM score is factored in as one of the scores used for the ranking. But, to get it to show as 58 kph, I have to ski at either IM or OM. I don't think I can actually compete as OM without that elite status indicator.

[wskierman8]

We had a similar scenario two weeks ago with a skier who had just switched into M3 but wanted to stay at 58kph. He was on the cusp of having his open rating; only a buoy or two away from the cut off and he skied open anyway and there were no issues.